"Condensing" Beehives - Why & How

WEBVTT

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in a world brimming with complexity few creatures

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embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless

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precision she dances from bloom to bloom each

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motion guided by millennia upon millennia of

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instinct each act in service to the whole and

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then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards

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of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,

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part poet, they move along their hives with the

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efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to

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the bees' needs as best they can comprehend,

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and with the infrequency Welcome, welcome to

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Be Love Beekeeping presented by our great friends

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and partners in beekeeping. Mann Lake. Today

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we're going to have a super informative conversation

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about condensing hives with one of the leading

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authorities on the topic but first fresh from

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the beekeeping news we had another couple of

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big trucks carrying beehives rollover one in

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Yellowstone National Park and another in Texas.

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What really cracked me up was this headline from

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the Texas Accident quote Two million bees escape

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after truck carrying hives overturns. The reporter

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made it sound like they were hauling federal

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prisoners who escaped the accident. Call the

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federal marshals. Of course, we know that the

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last thing the bees wanted to do was leave their

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homes. But when their homes are broken open and

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scattered across the highway, they don't really

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know what to do. Orange County Emergency Services

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warned residents, quote, Everyone that lives

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in the affected area please remain indoors. An

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18 -wheeler carrying beehives has turned over

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and there's heavy presence of bees in the area.

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The good news is that local beekeepers quickly

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came to the rescue both of the bees and of the

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residents. This got me thinking because we hear

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about this quite often. Is there something with

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bees in these truck rollovers? And I'm going

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to say no because here are some other unusual

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mishaps in the last few months on US highways.

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A truck in Tennessee hauling fireworks caught

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fire and its load triggered a spectacular impromptu

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display. Back in March, 40 ,000 pounds of extra

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firm tofu was spilled in Missouri, and previous

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to that, firefighters responded to a crash in

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which a truck carrying a huge load of ribeye

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steaks burst into flames. All right, enough of

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that silliness, let's get back to talking about

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honey bees. Welcome, welcome to Bee Love Beekeeping,

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everybody, and I'd like to welcome especially

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We have a great guest today, Bill Hesbach. How

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are you, Bill? I'm very good. Thank you so much.

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It's a pleasure to be here. I am super excited

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to have you today because we're going to be talking

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all about condensing hives, which is something

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that I still have a lot to learn about, but it's

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come up a lot lately. We had Lauren on the show

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recently and she mentioned it and you and I had

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another guest on that has built his own long

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laying hive. and is talking about a condensing

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system with that. So if you don't mind, I want

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to jump right in. Would you start with just the

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30 ,000 foot view of in general, what are we

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talking about when we talk about condensing hives?

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Yeah, it's actually quite simple. So when we're

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talking about condensing hives, we're assuming

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that we allow the bees to control the the internal

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environment in hives. We don't get involved with

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ventilation at all. And it's based on the principle

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that bees have lived for millions of years. The

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pollinators have lived for millions of years.

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The current Western bee that we keep here in

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the United States has been around for hundreds

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of thousands of years and they've lived in cavities

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where they controlled all the hive gases. So

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a condensing colony brings them a step backward.

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toward their more natural environment. So it's,

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in a word, bees get to control all the hive gases.

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We don't interfere. In order to do that, by the

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way, you have to have a box that allows for a

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complete envelope that they can then manage themselves.

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So does that mean in times of winter, for example,

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you have no ventilation in the hive at all? No

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ventilation at all in the hive, except for the

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entrance. the bottom entrance here, just like

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it would be in a tree cavity, a box that would

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be surrounded by a lot of insulation on the top

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and the sides, a closed box, and the only ventilated

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part of it would be the entrance, which we keep

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at about a three inch long space. Okay. And a

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lot of people reduce that entrance in winter

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anyway. But it's hard for some of us to understand

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how we don't need ventilation because we need

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to talk about condensation. We need to talk about

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CO2. We need to talk about gases that build up.

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And I want to preface this with something that

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just came to my mind. Bill, what is the name

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of the volcano that blew up over in Italy a few

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years ago? Yeah, it buried beehives in volcanic

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ash. And they were buried for, if I remember

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right, about 50 days. Yeah. And they were dug

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out and the bees were still alive and just fine.

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Yeah. Well, that and you could also extend that

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into some of the colder climates where bees are

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covered with copious amounts of snow in sort

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of an igloo configuration that occurs naturally.

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And they survive under all of that snow without

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any added ventilation at all. So In the winter

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where I am, we get a lot of snow. And a couple

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of years ago, we had so much snow that even though

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some of my hives that are on stands, they were

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still buried. Like you just sort of saw a lump.

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And I thought it was my duty to take a brush

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or a broom or whatever and get the snow away

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from the entrances so that they had ventilation.

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Was I making a mistake? Well, you weren't making

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a mistake, but you were just surviving through

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a lot of cold work. Unnecessary snow ice is different

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than snow. So if you had ice over that front

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entrance and you have to remove it, snow has

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an incredible amount of porosity. When I do this

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talk and I've been doing it since about 2016,

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I show snowflakes and up under microscopy and

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it's just a veritable porous space. So bees.

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And all other insects, by the way, that live

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underground all winter long with dense snow packs

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survive perfectly okay with the exchange of gases

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through snow. So you can exchange gases through

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snow, is my point. They don't get bogged down.

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As a matter of fact, if a colony gets a lot of

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snow on top of it, it adds to the insulation.

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Okay. I want to let you get back to giving this

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whole 30 ,000 foot view. Tell us... a little

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bit more about detail now. Okay. How does this

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work? Why should we use it? Well, I can tell

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you how it works. And for you to sort of embrace

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the concept, it's a challenge to Belor. And to

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give you an idea, I think where we started with

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ventilation, I think ventilation is a useful

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practice when you don't insulate a colony, especially

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in a cold climate, and you allow the gases that

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come off of the core To meet a lot of cold air

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on the say a cold inner cover It'll condense

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there into liquid moisture and drip back down

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on the cluster So early on when bees were taken

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out of their natural habitat kept in Langstroth

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boxes Early beekeepers noticed right away that

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they could they had to do something To keep that

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condensation from accumulating around the top

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of the cluster with a cold surface. So those

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are just basic thermodynamics. Those are physics

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laws. You can't change that, right? If you have

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warm, moist air that has a fairly dense moisture

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content and hits a cold surface, it's going to

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condense into liquid moisture. Now, if you insulate

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that and you maintain a surface above a cluster,

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It's above the dew point. There can't be any

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condensation that occurs there. So what ends

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up happening then is the moisture vapor that's

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coming off of the cluster will come up, warm

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the surface that's insulated, and then it spreads

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out and seeks colder parts of the colony. So

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again, just basic physics, basic thermodynamics

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and basic bee biology. So bees take advantage

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of this, especially when they're in trees and

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there's plenty of insulation above them. As moisture

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then finds its way out toward cooler spaces,

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it condenses inside the colony. So therefore,

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it's a condensing colony. So you're allowing

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the moisture to condense. So then is that good

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is a question to let moisture condense inside

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the colony. Yeah, because people would say, hey,

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we don't want the bees to get wet. Yeah, they

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absolutely will never get wet as long as the

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surface above them is above the dew point. or

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you can't get liquid moisture to develop and

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drip down on bees if that surface can't reach

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the dew point. What happens is then that moisture,

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that vapor, goes out toward color surfaces and

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it condenses there. Now this is the number one

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factor why bees are, by their instincts, are

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biologically superior to our beekeeping. So the

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first thing that happens is when that condenses

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on the outside, it gives off latent heat. There's

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a built -in latent heat recovery system when

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moisture is allowed to condense inside the colony.

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That can account for more than a double -digit

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savings in energy expenditure if you allow that

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to condense inside the colony. Again, this is

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just physics. So that's one thing. And then,

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of course, if there's excess moisture, then it'll

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run down the frames or inside the box and then

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accumulate in the bottom or or go out of the

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bottom board or whatever, whatever happens. But

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that doesn't normally occur when bees are allowed

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to condense in the colonies. Not a lot of excess

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moisture, not where I live. Yeah, so that's the

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first thing. There's a latent heat recovery that

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bees take advantage of when they allow to condense.

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Now that water is in the colony. It has liquid

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moisture in areas where bees have access to it.

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So that's the other positive part about allowing

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some condensation to occur inside the colony,

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not in the cluster, but around it. on surfaces

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around it, is they have it access to thin honey

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when they want to eat it during the winter. I

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don't think a lot of beekeepers realize that

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honey is cured honey inside cells. It's easy

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for bees to uncap that, but they can't lap it

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up. They got to thin it. It's too thick to go

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through their proboscis. I've often wondered

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why bees use water to thin honey. and then eat

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it. And that's the reason why it's just, it has

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too much viscosity for bees to just swallow,

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right? So that then means that they don't have

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to go out to search waters. When they break cluster,

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they can find water right near them or move a

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cluster over a little bit. They can find more.

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So those are two really important parts of why

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condensation is a positive thing to occur inside

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of a colony during the late heat recovery and

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moisture available to thin honey so they could

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eat it. Now there's more to this, right? So now

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you asked earlier about the gases. So the gases

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are where it really gets interesting. Because

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with the gases, two things happen in a cluster,

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especially a type cluster. The CO2 builds up

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and the oxygen levels driven down. So now you

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have an environment that is higher in CO2 than

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you would expect, right? So it could get up to

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22 % of the somewhere between 14 and let's say

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20 percent, somewhere between 14 and 20 percent

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of the colony's atmosphere, the cluster's atmosphere,

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is now CO2. So what's the bee's response to that?

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Bees respond to that in a completely different

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way. If you were human in that environment and

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you would last about five minutes before you

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would go into hypoxia, you would die at 10 percent

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CO2 in minutes. These survive and lots of other

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insects survive in these real high CO2 high environments

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by lowering their metabolic rate. So they have

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another biological adaptation. They go into a

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low metabolic stabilized rate. So they, instead

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of dying or going to hypoxia, they manage the

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amount of energy they use using that gas. Now,

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if it gets too high, of course, they ventilate

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a little bit of it out. If it's really cold and

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they're in a tighter cluster, they're going to

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use that CO2 to lower their metabolic weight.

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And therefore they use less honey to generate

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the amount of energy they need for that size

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cluster. That's the hard part for people to understand

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because you would think the first you'll hear

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in B meetings, first of all, you got to get the

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condensation out. Then you got to get the CO2

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out because it'll kill. CO2 does not kill insects.

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You can put anybody who has bred queens. will

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know that if they're going to do some artificial

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insemination, they will put a queen bee inside

00:14:45.929 --> 00:14:50.049
of a tube backward, and a nesticizer would see

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a CO2 for as long as they have to to inseminate

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that queen. Then she wakes up and is fine. And

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we didn't be able to put the bees in 100 % CO2.

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Of course, that wouldn't work. So the extreme

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side wouldn't work. That is fascinating stuff.

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Is this something that people should be doing

00:15:07.460 --> 00:15:10.659
if they're in a warm environment, Hawaii or Southern

00:15:10.659 --> 00:15:13.720
California or something? Yeah, since I wrote

00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:16.620
the first article on condensing colonies, I wrote

00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:21.840
in 2016 for Be Culture magazine and it got some

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circulation early on. And I coined that term

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condensing colony, which now has a life of its

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own, which is kind of interesting for me and

00:15:31.460 --> 00:15:35.059
rewarding in some ways. But I got feedback from

00:15:35.059 --> 00:15:38.860
people all over, up in the Northwest of the United

00:15:38.860 --> 00:15:43.039
States, in Germany, Turkey. So I got response

00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:47.000
from that article, with the same kind of question,

00:15:47.059 --> 00:15:50.299
should I try it here? What should I do? And my

00:15:50.299 --> 00:15:53.620
answer was always the same for everyone who made

00:15:53.620 --> 00:15:56.159
an inquiry, was try it, see what happens. And

00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:59.730
so then the second generation... of folks that

00:15:59.730 --> 00:16:02.330
have tried it in the meantime, some have found

00:16:02.330 --> 00:16:05.629
incredible success with it. Now, if you're going

00:16:05.629 --> 00:16:09.549
to use it in Florida, you're using it for a completely

00:16:09.549 --> 00:16:12.470
different reason. The interesting part about

00:16:12.470 --> 00:16:15.809
the way this whole thermoregulation biology ties

00:16:15.809 --> 00:16:19.169
into both cold and warm climates is something

00:16:19.169 --> 00:16:22.169
we don't normally think about. So in a warm climate,

00:16:22.409 --> 00:16:25.970
what does a condensing colony do? In a warm climate,

00:16:26.490 --> 00:16:29.769
it acts as a way for bees to regulate the amount

00:16:29.769 --> 00:16:32.889
of heat that's in a comb. There's a bunch of

00:16:32.889 --> 00:16:36.809
behaviors that occur where bees will dump heat

00:16:36.809 --> 00:16:38.870
outside the colony with their little bodies.

00:16:39.049 --> 00:16:41.889
They press it against comb. They absorb heat.

00:16:41.909 --> 00:16:44.929
They can get about a calorie. of heat absorption

00:16:44.929 --> 00:16:47.929
per a bee's abdomen then they bring that outside

00:16:47.929 --> 00:16:50.570
on the outside of the box disperse that heat

00:16:50.570 --> 00:16:53.690
then come back in so there's a heat shielding

00:16:53.690 --> 00:16:57.269
effect. Now if you start pumping in really hot

00:16:57.269 --> 00:17:01.610
humid air into a cluster that's already managing

00:17:01.610 --> 00:17:05.089
the way that they regulate heat it works really

00:17:05.089 --> 00:17:08.269
well if you will allow them to do it themselves.

00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.039
you know, then they set up little swamp coolers

00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:13.319
in there, right? They'll collect water hanging

00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:17.140
off the rim of a cell and evaporate it with wings,

00:17:17.420 --> 00:17:20.500
with their wing movement, right? So in cold climates

00:17:20.500 --> 00:17:23.480
where we think of thermoregulation as saving

00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:26.319
bees from freezing to death, in hot climates,

00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:29.039
the same thing, bees are adapted to thermoregulate

00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:32.259
on their own. And a condensing box, so the condensing

00:17:32.259 --> 00:17:35.440
colony is just a box that has insulation on top

00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.220
and the sides, works fine. I really don't have

00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:40.599
to take my word for it. The industry has responded

00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:44.059
really well to this. And they make a bunch of

00:17:44.059 --> 00:17:46.680
insulated condensing colonies right out of the

00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:49.640
box these days. When I first started to popularize

00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:52.859
this idea, you had to make it. Quick break to

00:17:52.859 --> 00:17:56.000
discuss what just might be on your mind right

00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:58.759
now. Come on, admit it. You're imagining the

00:17:58.759 --> 00:18:01.819
upcoming honey harvest. Because no matter where

00:18:01.819 --> 00:18:04.420
you live in the world, it's either here now or

00:18:04.420 --> 00:18:07.500
it will be in the near future. And Man Lake is

00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:10.559
making it so easy to plan for. Click on over

00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:13.660
to Man Lake's website for an amazing selection

00:18:13.660 --> 00:18:18.180
of extractors, filters, bottling supplies, uncapping

00:18:18.180 --> 00:18:21.519
knives, supplies for comb honey, everything.

00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:24.890
And I mean. everything you'll need. But if you

00:18:24.890 --> 00:18:27.630
aren't there quite yet and the honey flows right

00:18:27.630 --> 00:18:30.690
around the corner, make sure you have extra supers

00:18:30.690 --> 00:18:34.309
on hand. You never can have too many or be too

00:18:34.309 --> 00:18:36.970
prepared. And right now Man Lake is offering

00:18:36.970 --> 00:18:41.549
podcast listeners $10 off your next order. Just

00:18:41.549 --> 00:18:46.269
enter code MLBlove10 at checkout. That's manlakeltd

00:18:46.269 --> 00:18:51.940
.com. Discount code MLBlove10. You had to make

00:18:51.940 --> 00:18:54.140
one of them. You had to take a Langstroth box,

00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:57.519
make a sleeve that goes over it, and then make

00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:00.460
some kind of an insulated telescoping cover that

00:19:00.460 --> 00:19:03.200
would keep the whole box as a condensing colony.

00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:05.119
And, of course, seal off the bottom and all that

00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:06.819
with a single entrance on the bottom. You had

00:19:06.819 --> 00:19:08.819
to make it all. Now you don't have to make anything.

00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:12.400
There's everybody out there. There's a number

00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:16.079
of brands. Man Lake carries a few, and Better

00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:18.940
B carries a few. There's lots of... you know,

00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:20.960
bee supply houses that are now carrying them.

00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:24.819
And out in Australia and in all of Europe, the

00:19:24.819 --> 00:19:29.339
Germans have been keeping polly boxes for decades

00:19:29.339 --> 00:19:31.960
with no topping. As a matter of fact, if you

00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:35.420
look at German beekeeping practices, their box,

00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:37.779
their polly box, which is a condensing colony

00:19:37.779 --> 00:19:41.940
by nature, has a piece of plastic like a ...

00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:44.079
six mil plastic that they put over the top of

00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:47.539
the frames, they're thick polytopon. And through

00:19:47.539 --> 00:19:52.180
all of those scenarios, there's been tests of

00:19:52.180 --> 00:19:55.440
colonies in really hot climates, like the Gibson

00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:59.920
Desert and other places in Australia where they

00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:03.859
had uninsulated boxes side by side with insulated

00:20:03.859 --> 00:20:06.539
boxes. And notice that the behavior of bees is

00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:09.680
that they did a lot more bearding on the outside

00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:11.920
of the uninsulated boxes than they did in the

00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:13.940
insulated stuff. And I've seen that for years

00:20:13.940 --> 00:20:16.920
in my own apiaries, where bees in hot weather

00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.779
will beard like crazy. In my insulated boxes,

00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:22.640
there's always some hives in a colony that in

00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:24.960
my yards that aren't insulated. I will see them

00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:27.660
beard differently. So I think this is a great

00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:31.460
reminder for people that insulation is important

00:20:31.460 --> 00:20:34.339
in hot climates as well as cold ones. That's

00:20:34.339 --> 00:20:36.599
part of what you're getting at here, right? It's

00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:38.539
exactly right. I mean, you know, you don't take

00:20:38.539 --> 00:20:40.720
the insulation out of your walls in the summertime,

00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:44.039
or you don't uninsulate your attic in the summertime.

00:20:45.099 --> 00:20:47.839
So insulation works both ways. I mean, if these

00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:53.779
are keeping a brood area at 95 degrees Fahrenheit,

00:20:53.859 --> 00:20:57.980
say for instance, they don't need 102 degree

00:20:57.980 --> 00:21:00.220
moist air coming into the bottom of the box,

00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.579
or for that matter, they don't need 95 degree

00:21:03.579 --> 00:21:08.079
air or 87 degree air with high humidity being

00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:13.420
pumped inside the box. The homeostasis is a bee's

00:21:13.420 --> 00:21:16.859
absolute biological adaptation. They want a box

00:21:16.859 --> 00:21:20.200
that they can stabilize in all environments and

00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:24.559
control the air envelope inside. There's lots

00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:28.440
of high -powered physics behind thermoregulation,

00:21:28.460 --> 00:21:32.410
and I got into all of it. And if you can do the

00:21:32.410 --> 00:21:35.430
formulas that are associated with figuring out

00:21:35.430 --> 00:21:39.430
all these thermodynamic, you have to be an engineer.

00:21:40.029 --> 00:21:43.609
The real key to understanding it is to put yourself

00:21:43.609 --> 00:21:46.849
back in time a little bit and think about how

00:21:46.849 --> 00:21:50.549
bees evolved. There's very little natural evidence

00:21:50.549 --> 00:21:55.890
that a beekeeper can't rationalize themselves.

00:21:55.950 --> 00:21:58.480
They can say, well, listen to what... Bees came

00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:02.299
from trees, say for instance, or other cavities.

00:22:03.460 --> 00:22:06.019
And all of those other cavities that bees have

00:22:06.019 --> 00:22:09.980
evolved to live in provided them with a lot of

00:22:09.980 --> 00:22:13.140
insulation. Take an old tree here in the northeast

00:22:13.140 --> 00:22:17.140
where I live. You'll see a hole in a bee tree

00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:20.589
that's been there for maybe 75 years. Colonies

00:22:20.589 --> 00:22:23.410
occasionally occupy it and then they go away,

00:22:23.410 --> 00:22:26.069
but they come back to that. And the reason they

00:22:26.069 --> 00:22:28.670
select that over and over again is because it

00:22:28.670 --> 00:22:31.349
has the characteristics that they need to survive.

00:22:31.750 --> 00:22:34.849
And one of them, of course, in a tree, is a bunch

00:22:34.849 --> 00:22:37.710
of insulation above the cavity that they pick,

00:22:37.890 --> 00:22:41.670
a bunch below it, and then usually five or six

00:22:41.670 --> 00:22:45.009
inches of wood all around the outside, which

00:22:45.009 --> 00:22:49.180
would make for a complete insulated envelope

00:22:49.180 --> 00:22:51.500
with a single entrance. So let's say we have

00:22:51.500 --> 00:22:54.880
a beekeeper that wants to try this concept and

00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:57.339
they don't have a polyhive. So they want to buy

00:22:57.339 --> 00:23:00.519
some insulation and just try this. You mentioned

00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:03.220
a sleeve that goes over the whole thing. Yes.

00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:07.660
Give us some kind of step by step. Like how much

00:23:07.660 --> 00:23:10.799
insulation? Do we want that hard foam insulation?

00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:13.539
Do we want an inch of it? Do we want two inches

00:23:13.539 --> 00:23:17.440
of it? What's a what's a just a basic recommendation?

00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:21.940
Yeah, so there's like about a 75 25 split on

00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:26.160
loss So about 75 percent of the loss heat loss

00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.960
in a colony goes out of the top Let's just say

00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:32.039
it's an uninsulated box just goes out of the

00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:34.740
top and then maybe 25 percent around the sides

00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:38.039
so if you were gonna make a sleeve that went

00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:42.079
over a Langstroth box say for instance, you could

00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:45.619
buy poly sheets, there's ones called R -Max,

00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:49.799
there's pink sheets of foam, EPS foam and expanded,

00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:52.539
some special expanded foams that you get about

00:23:52.539 --> 00:23:55.960
R -5 or R -6 or R -7 per inch. And you could

00:23:55.960 --> 00:24:00.339
put one inch of that around the outside. And

00:24:00.339 --> 00:24:02.460
I'm going to explain some peculiarities about

00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:05.619
how insulation works. So we'll just generally

00:24:05.619 --> 00:24:09.119
flesh out how you could make this yourself. So

00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:13.349
you would make a box that fits over the Colony

00:24:13.349 --> 00:24:15.849
right right over a length with box same dimensions

00:24:15.849 --> 00:24:18.470
as the outside now. You've got an extra inch

00:24:18.470 --> 00:24:22.470
Around the entire circumference of that box,

00:24:22.470 --> 00:24:25.630
which so your normal telescoping covers won't

00:24:25.630 --> 00:24:29.630
fit over that anymore So in order to get a complete

00:24:29.630 --> 00:24:34.029
Insulated envelope you have to make Or if you

00:24:34.029 --> 00:24:37.490
were going to make this you have to make a telescoping

00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:40.750
cover that would fit over that insulation. It

00:24:40.750 --> 00:24:43.950
would accommodate that one inch around the entire

00:24:43.950 --> 00:24:47.269
colony and then also have two inches of that

00:24:47.269 --> 00:24:50.089
foam on the top. So one inch around the side,

00:24:50.369 --> 00:24:53.349
two on the top, but it has to be a continuous,

00:24:54.390 --> 00:24:57.279
no break in the insulation. So does the heat

00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:00.579
just leave through those breaks too much? Yes,

00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:02.519
the heat leaves through those breaks. So let

00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:05.759
me explain how insulation works. When I worked

00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:08.240
as a mechanical engineer in a company that I

00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:11.819
owned, I was a consultant for building envelopes.

00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:16.059
So I would be called in as a specialist to figure

00:25:16.059 --> 00:25:20.660
out how they could improve the design to accommodate

00:25:20.660 --> 00:25:24.000
for more insulation. Now it's well known. But

00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:25.920
back in the day, there was very little known

00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:29.440
about it. So we did some tests on how insulation

00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.539
works. So if you were to take a regular building

00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:36.940
bay cavity and fill it 90 % with insulation,

00:25:37.740 --> 00:25:40.700
that 10 % that you left out at the top would

00:25:40.700 --> 00:25:44.079
compromise the entire insulation quality of that

00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:48.509
bay. So if you have a box that has open edges

00:25:48.509 --> 00:25:51.009
and all kinds of the insulation doesn't touch

00:25:51.009 --> 00:25:53.509
each other or on the top you don't make it a

00:25:53.509 --> 00:25:57.549
continuous so it touches all four sides. You

00:25:57.549 --> 00:26:01.349
just lose insulation heat and you're defeating

00:26:01.349 --> 00:26:04.549
the purpose of the insulation. A lot of beekeepers

00:26:04.549 --> 00:26:08.470
will say to me well I did what I thought but

00:26:08.470 --> 00:26:11.390
I put a quilt box up there and then I put the

00:26:11.390 --> 00:26:14.380
insulation on top of the quilt box. So the quilt

00:26:14.380 --> 00:26:17.819
box ends up with a lot of ventilation and we

00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:20.660
don't ventilate below insulation. It just doesn't

00:26:20.660 --> 00:26:22.720
work that way. You know, you know, you know,

00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:26.119
put your insulation has to be in contact and

00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:28.640
in a continuous area or else it just doesn't

00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:32.279
work. So no quilt box. My point is you can't

00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:34.940
put ventilation below your insulation. That would

00:26:34.940 --> 00:26:37.779
be like opening up the windows in your second

00:26:37.779 --> 00:26:40.660
floor in your house all winter long. Totally

00:26:40.660 --> 00:26:43.099
makes sense. Okay. So yeah, so that's how you

00:26:43.099 --> 00:26:46.319
might make one. The article that I wrote in B

00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:50.119
Culture in March of 2016 is still available online.

00:26:50.299 --> 00:26:53.000
Anybody that wants to look that up, just look

00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:56.960
up, you know, just you can search my name. They

00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.299
have a good library there. You can look up old

00:26:59.299 --> 00:27:02.259
articles. Yeah. And you just go ahead and do

00:27:02.259 --> 00:27:04.480
that and you can. search that article and give

00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:06.680
step -by -step instructions on how to build them.

00:27:07.619 --> 00:27:10.200
Just be reminded that this is when they weren't

00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:12.519
offering an insulated box yet. There weren't

00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:15.259
any poly boxes on the market at that point. So

00:27:15.259 --> 00:27:17.880
that's why you had to make one. And now there

00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:22.200
are all kinds. Yes. There's also insulation blankets

00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:25.640
that wrap all the way around and have like plastic

00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:27.920
on the outside so they're waterproof and they

00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:29.740
look like, I haven't used one yet, they look

00:27:29.740 --> 00:27:32.230
like they're three or four inches thick. Like

00:27:32.230 --> 00:27:34.630
you'd get a lot of R value, but it sounds like

00:27:34.630 --> 00:27:37.230
it's important to make sure you have higher R

00:27:37.230 --> 00:27:40.329
value on top than on the sides. Yes. So there's

00:27:40.329 --> 00:27:42.309
really some innovative products out there that

00:27:42.309 --> 00:27:44.809
have come out and one I consulted with is the

00:27:44.809 --> 00:27:46.930
Hive Hugger. And if people want to take a look

00:27:46.930 --> 00:27:49.650
at that as an example of how you put together

00:27:49.650 --> 00:27:52.509
your own sleeve, they're already made for you.

00:27:52.609 --> 00:27:54.509
So the sleeves are being made if you wanted to

00:27:54.509 --> 00:27:57.900
try it. and see what the results are. So I did

00:27:57.900 --> 00:28:02.380
a lot of work on figuring out if I was okay with

00:28:02.380 --> 00:28:06.140
talking about the way condensation works in economy.

00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:08.799
My early efforts at trying to understand the

00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:12.640
thermodynamics were then reinforced by some interesting

00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:15.160
physicists, one in England, that did a bunch

00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:18.980
of work on the thermodynamics and explained that

00:28:18.980 --> 00:28:23.019
what's possibly happening with boxes in cold

00:28:23.019 --> 00:28:25.500
climates that are ventilated is that the bees

00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:27.920
are in a constant state of trying to survive.

00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:30.440
So it puts them in a really rugged state, and

00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:32.359
they have to try to survive that, and they can

00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:36.500
for the most part. But we have to be aware that

00:28:36.500 --> 00:28:41.099
since the bee lore of ventilation was initiated

00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:43.599
back in the day when beekeepers first learned

00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:47.000
that liquid moisture would kill their bees, there

00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:49.819
weren't a lot of viral stresses that we know

00:28:49.819 --> 00:28:54.769
of. The form -wing virus wasn't discussed. We

00:28:54.769 --> 00:28:57.970
didn't have varroa. No one talked about black

00:28:57.970 --> 00:29:01.549
queen cell virus. I mean, the viral landscape

00:29:01.549 --> 00:29:04.009
back in the day, there may have been there, and

00:29:04.009 --> 00:29:06.869
I'm almost guaranteed it was there. My studies

00:29:06.869 --> 00:29:10.569
in virology would indicate that... We didn't

00:29:10.569 --> 00:29:13.269
invent anything. There were viruses even back

00:29:13.269 --> 00:29:15.750
then. They just weren't deadly. What we were

00:29:15.750 --> 00:29:18.430
working with back in the day was American Foulbrood,

00:29:18.650 --> 00:29:21.609
European Foulbrood, Sackbrood, Chalkbrood, all

00:29:21.609 --> 00:29:23.670
of that stuff, the bacterial infections and the

00:29:23.670 --> 00:29:28.089
viral infections that went back a ways. But now

00:29:28.089 --> 00:29:32.390
we know for certain that bees, that Varroa, are

00:29:32.390 --> 00:29:36.269
vectoring a bunch of viral load into bees. And

00:29:36.269 --> 00:29:39.140
you're hearing a lot about beekeepers saying,

00:29:39.799 --> 00:29:43.440
the first cold snap in my colony died. I think

00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:47.359
that there's different pressures on bees in terms

00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:52.759
of their cellular mechanisms to try to combat

00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:55.740
viral infections. It leaves them a little bit

00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:59.759
more vulnerable. So my logic in all of that is,

00:29:59.900 --> 00:30:02.500
yes, maybe your bees will survive without a bunch

00:30:02.500 --> 00:30:04.940
of insulation and outside of a condensing colony,

00:30:05.240 --> 00:30:09.059
but why not? If you're a hobby beekeeper or advance

00:30:09.059 --> 00:30:13.720
your animal husbandry into a place where you're

00:30:13.720 --> 00:30:15.859
providing the bees with a more natural habitat,

00:30:16.700 --> 00:30:18.799
give them a chance. I'm going to add something

00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:21.700
to that. And that's a great line of thinking

00:30:21.700 --> 00:30:24.980
and a great explanation. And another thing that

00:30:24.980 --> 00:30:28.819
a lot of us deal with is pesticides use around

00:30:28.819 --> 00:30:31.740
us that the bees just can't seem to stay away

00:30:31.740 --> 00:30:34.619
from. And so anything we can do to make their

00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:37.990
life easier, is going to counteract some of those

00:30:37.990 --> 00:30:40.130
other things that you were just talking about

00:30:40.130 --> 00:30:43.809
and the pesticide load, the viruses, the varroa,

00:30:43.910 --> 00:30:46.609
the everything else. So let's give them a break

00:30:46.609 --> 00:30:49.529
any place we can. And you mentioned these things

00:30:49.529 --> 00:30:52.529
about we learned about moisture and it's all

00:30:52.529 --> 00:30:54.710
terrible and that kind of thing. It seems like

00:30:54.710 --> 00:30:57.690
one of the problems that us beekeepers have is

00:30:57.690 --> 00:31:01.369
the first thing that we learned on a topic, whether

00:31:01.369 --> 00:31:05.069
it was from a mentor 20 years ago or whatever.

00:31:05.420 --> 00:31:09.240
like that sticks and we have a hard time being

00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:12.559
open -minded that maybe that wasn't right. I

00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:15.559
need to be open -minded here about thermodynamics

00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:19.680
and condensation and all these other things because

00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:22.640
bees are struggling and we've got to figure out

00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:25.319
any other way to help them than we can. And it's

00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:27.980
not just about throwing chemicals in to fight

00:31:27.980 --> 00:31:31.599
varroa. Right, you can, yeah, so you're fortifying

00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:35.099
the natural biology of bees. The way I look at

00:31:35.099 --> 00:31:38.380
it is on this sort of like a continuum between

00:31:38.380 --> 00:31:41.440
a fully condensing colony where bees are allowed

00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:46.539
to divide management controls over the hive gases,

00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:50.519
using CO2 to regulate their metabolism in the

00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:54.099
wintertime, using that internal atmosphere to

00:31:54.099 --> 00:31:57.039
cool colony and heat. Under those circumstances,

00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:59.740
you have a biological unit that's working in

00:31:59.740 --> 00:32:03.220
concert with the evolution of their own biology.

00:32:03.369 --> 00:32:06.970
As you move away from that model and move them

00:32:06.970 --> 00:32:10.190
toward a more of a ventilating model to a full

00:32:10.190 --> 00:32:14.369
ventilating model, you're moving from a natural

00:32:14.369 --> 00:32:17.950
environment to an artificial one. And the artificial

00:32:17.950 --> 00:32:21.690
one has pretty much been reinforced by our industrial

00:32:21.690 --> 00:32:24.509
beekeeping complex in that I don't have anything,

00:32:24.849 --> 00:32:29.529
I have nothing against pollinating or beekeepers

00:32:29.529 --> 00:32:33.359
using pollinators and their services, but they

00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:36.039
view bees as an industrial product. We don't

00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:39.200
have to. If we're going to care for bees in a

00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:43.220
more sort of natural way, it makes sense to provide

00:32:43.220 --> 00:32:46.539
them with a habitat that's more natural. Yeah.

00:32:47.019 --> 00:32:49.759
All right, Bill. I really appreciate all the

00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:51.940
wisdom that you're sharing with us today. Let's

00:32:51.940 --> 00:32:54.619
leave with something fun. You've been a beekeeper

00:32:54.619 --> 00:32:57.079
long enough that I'm sure you've had some wild

00:32:57.079 --> 00:32:59.599
and crazy beekeeping stories. You want to leave

00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:02.099
us with one or two? I was thinking about that

00:33:02.099 --> 00:33:05.619
when you first asked the question, and there's

00:33:05.619 --> 00:33:08.420
so many of them that are just a whole lot of

00:33:08.420 --> 00:33:12.319
fun that happened. So I was in the yard one day

00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:14.420
and I witnessed a swarm. I always spend a lot

00:33:14.420 --> 00:33:17.700
of time around bee yards. And especially in swarm

00:33:17.700 --> 00:33:19.519
season, I'm always there doing something. So

00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:22.160
I'll always, or on occasion, I'll see swarms.

00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:26.920
In this particular time, I saw a swarm coming

00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:30.680
out of a hive. I saw it emerging. Then I went

00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:35.460
to a tree and hung there about four feet high.

00:33:35.579 --> 00:33:37.839
Nice big swarm. So I thought this is going to

00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:40.880
be easy to catch. Let me just go over there and

00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:43.660
I'll shake it into a bucket. So I set up some

00:33:43.660 --> 00:33:47.460
hive equipment and I shook the branch. Now I'm

00:33:47.460 --> 00:33:52.259
working blind. So I'm holding the bucket and

00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:54.720
the branch, so I shake it down and all the bees

00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:58.599
fly away. I mean, I get a couple thousand in

00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:01.779
the bucket, but the bees all fly. Now what happened

00:34:01.779 --> 00:34:05.799
is they flew with the queen to another location,

00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:08.989
which I didn't notice. I'm in the middle of hiving

00:34:08.989 --> 00:34:11.849
these couple of thousand bees that I put up a

00:34:11.849 --> 00:34:14.730
box in the apiary and dumped those bees in. And

00:34:14.730 --> 00:34:16.809
then I then I said, wow, wait a minute, there's

00:34:16.809 --> 00:34:19.329
another swarm up there. Well, actually, it was

00:34:19.329 --> 00:34:22.690
the same swarm. It's just that they I didn't

00:34:22.690 --> 00:34:24.670
notice that they formed in a different location.

00:34:24.690 --> 00:34:27.269
So I'm over there collecting that swarm. So I

00:34:27.269 --> 00:34:30.530
hide them in a different box. So now I got I

00:34:30.530 --> 00:34:33.869
got one swarm in one and one swarm in the other.

00:34:33.989 --> 00:34:37.619
But that but. You know, and then I got the original

00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:41.619
colony that swarmed. Should we guess what the

00:34:41.619 --> 00:34:45.639
colony without the queen did? Yeah, go ahead.

00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:47.699
What do you think the colony without the queen

00:34:47.699 --> 00:34:51.579
did? Well, I assume they realized their queen's

00:34:51.579 --> 00:34:53.960
in that other box and they all headed over there.

00:34:54.199 --> 00:34:57.099
So they took off out of that box, but there was

00:34:57.099 --> 00:34:59.820
more bees in that to say, you know, because they

00:34:59.820 --> 00:35:02.099
took off with that and they went into the, and

00:35:02.099 --> 00:35:04.760
they went into the box. So now I've got a swarm

00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:08.000
coming out of a box that I just hives and I'm

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:10.280
thinking, well, that does happen. Sometimes they'll

00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:13.139
benefit, but that colony swarmed and went into

00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:15.679
the other box. Now there was a lot of action

00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:20.460
in the first box that I dumped in, right? The

00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:22.539
colony that I dumped the box in with the queen.

00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:27.320
the queen managed to get out of that and fly,

00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.500
because she was ready to fly. But I didn't see

00:35:30.500 --> 00:35:34.460
that. So when she returned to the colony, which

00:35:34.460 --> 00:35:40.119
she did, she went underneath. And there's a screen

00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:45.039
bottom on those boxes. So now both colonies in

00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:47.320
my inspection, like the next day I usually go

00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:49.340
back when I get a swarm and I'm thinking, okay,

00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:51.559
let me make sure that this colony is queen right.

00:35:52.329 --> 00:35:56.250
There's no queen. And I knew there's no queen

00:35:56.250 --> 00:35:59.489
anywhere except she's on the bottom with about

00:35:59.489 --> 00:36:03.489
10 ,000 bees. So yeah, so that has happened more

00:36:03.489 --> 00:36:08.280
times than I can imagine. We never totally figure

00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:11.019
them out. That's part of the fun. So we just

00:36:11.019 --> 00:36:13.579
keep learning and learning. I haven't run over

00:36:13.579 --> 00:36:15.960
my smoker in the yard with the truck and caught

00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:18.739
the yard on fire and I haven't bent hive tools

00:36:18.739 --> 00:36:20.880
or got flats from running them over. I haven't

00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:24.820
done anything that crazy. Where's the most painful

00:36:24.820 --> 00:36:28.400
place to get stung? I've gotten stung everywhere.

00:36:28.860 --> 00:36:32.659
I think the most painful place to get stung for

00:36:32.659 --> 00:36:36.289
me is my nose. If you got a minute. Let me tell

00:36:36.289 --> 00:36:38.789
you this other story about Thailand. I've been

00:36:38.789 --> 00:36:42.409
fortunate to go on a couple of B excursions in

00:36:42.409 --> 00:36:45.369
other countries, Africa, Thailand, especially

00:36:45.369 --> 00:36:48.989
Italy. We went with a bunch of university students

00:36:48.989 --> 00:36:51.969
to Thailand and we were out in the middle of.

00:36:52.710 --> 00:36:55.869
We went to the University of Burpa and we were

00:36:55.869 --> 00:36:58.949
hosted by entomologists there and we were going

00:36:58.949 --> 00:37:04.349
out into the jungles and looking for Apis dorsata.

00:37:04.940 --> 00:37:09.000
the biggest bee in the world, the biggest apis

00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:12.639
bee in the world, huge bee, three times the size

00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:14.980
of a regular Western honeybee, or at least two

00:37:14.980 --> 00:37:17.420
size. I thought I was going with grad students

00:37:17.420 --> 00:37:20.480
and entomologists, but I went with undergrads.

00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:24.019
A lot of them weren't really that interested

00:37:24.019 --> 00:37:27.460
in keeping bees. They were just looking for a

00:37:27.460 --> 00:37:32.139
trip to Thailand, but they went anyway. We arranged

00:37:32.139 --> 00:37:36.150
to go out with honey hunters. to find these nests

00:37:36.150 --> 00:37:42.530
in them, in the forest. So we find one. The unfortunate

00:37:42.530 --> 00:37:45.650
part about this nest, it was down a trail. The

00:37:45.650 --> 00:37:49.170
trail went past a tree and ended not very far.

00:37:49.309 --> 00:37:51.969
It couldn't go very far in Thailand. There was

00:37:51.969 --> 00:37:54.369
water in ditches all over the place. There's

00:37:54.369 --> 00:37:57.510
seven species of poisonous snakes. It's thick

00:37:57.510 --> 00:38:01.590
jungle -like conditions. Now the students all

00:38:01.590 --> 00:38:05.179
went past a tree. and gathered in a location

00:38:05.179 --> 00:38:10.159
where to get back out, they got to go back under

00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:13.940
the tree and back to the bus. So the beekeeper

00:38:13.940 --> 00:38:18.239
is trying to explain to us in a way that we couldn't

00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:21.179
understand it because he's speaking Thai, that

00:38:21.179 --> 00:38:23.780
the colony hasn't been acting. That colony he

00:38:23.780 --> 00:38:26.960
harvested honey from and hadn't been acting that

00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:30.320
calm. So he wanted to warn us ahead of time might

00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:33.800
be a little bit dicey. What happens is they climb

00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:35.760
the tree with a smoker in their hand that they

00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.239
make on the way there. They have no protection

00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:41.619
at all. He climbs up about 10 meters high and

00:38:41.619 --> 00:38:44.900
he smokes the colony. And what happens with dorsata,

00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:47.179
which is different than western honeybee, is

00:38:47.179 --> 00:38:50.280
they leave the colony when you smoke them. They

00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:52.780
don't stay on, they don't hang around trying

00:38:52.780 --> 00:38:55.179
to gather up whatever nectar, nectar they have

00:38:55.179 --> 00:38:59.559
themselves. They blew up off the colony and who

00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:03.599
do they find for I was standing under the tree

00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:07.619
filming the beekeeper, the honey hunter. The

00:39:07.619 --> 00:39:10.000
bees find the students. And did they have all

00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:12.699
their gear on, their protective gear? Yeah, they

00:39:12.699 --> 00:39:17.800
had like some gear and some not. And so they

00:39:17.800 --> 00:39:21.980
started to sting. So they panic. This is a big

00:39:21.980 --> 00:39:26.320
bee and it's kind of intimidating. So they ran

00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:29.340
out of the from underneath it. They ran past

00:39:29.340 --> 00:39:33.519
me. The beekeeper had dropped his smokers. I

00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:36.860
had the smoker, but I was filming. So I stayed

00:39:36.860 --> 00:39:38.739
with the beekeeper and I was filming them up

00:39:38.739 --> 00:39:41.880
the tree. They ran through, but when they panicked

00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:45.059
and they didn't run out the trail, they decided

00:39:45.059 --> 00:39:48.320
they were going to run through the little streams

00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:53.559
and horrible conditions where there's a bunch

00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:56.730
of little... predator snakes and things ready

00:39:56.730 --> 00:39:58.969
to get you. And it was just, it was just horrific.

00:39:59.170 --> 00:40:01.550
I mean, it was just, it turned out to be the

00:40:01.550 --> 00:40:04.170
biggest nightmare beekeeping experience I think

00:40:04.170 --> 00:40:05.869
that there ever have. They're not, they didn't

00:40:05.869 --> 00:40:07.989
go home and become beekeepers, I'm sure of that.

00:40:08.570 --> 00:40:10.909
But yeah, so we got, we got a lot of people stung

00:40:10.909 --> 00:40:13.789
with it. Everybody was fine. Nothing happened.

00:40:13.929 --> 00:40:16.389
No serious injuries. No serious injuries, but

00:40:16.389 --> 00:40:17.969
a couple of students went back to the United

00:40:17.969 --> 00:40:20.250
States the next day. Hey Bill, I've got to let

00:40:20.250 --> 00:40:22.929
you go, but it's been really fun and really informative.

00:40:23.349 --> 00:40:28.829
Thank you so very much. Thanks again for joining

00:40:28.829 --> 00:40:31.829
us on Be Love, Be Keeping presented by Man Lake.

00:40:32.349 --> 00:40:34.650
Another big thank you goes to V2B Health for

00:40:34.650 --> 00:40:38.139
their support. Vita's Varroa Control Ranger products

00:40:38.139 --> 00:40:42.539
includes Epistan, Epigard and now Varroxan Extended

00:40:42.539 --> 00:40:45.860
Release Oxalic Acid Strips. Hey thanks a lot

00:40:45.860 --> 00:40:48.619
guys and if you haven't yet please subscribe

00:40:48.619 --> 00:40:50.920
to and follow the show tell your friends about

00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:53.719
it and click on over to BeLoveBekeeping .com

00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:56.860
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00:40:56.860 --> 00:41:00.000
a guest suggestion or topic you'd like discussed

00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:03.320
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00:41:03.320 --> 00:41:06.679
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00:41:06.679 --> 00:41:09.780
the honey or the money you're in it for the love.

00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:10.880
See you next week.