Varroa Mites In Australia - Flow Hive's Cedar Anderson

WEBVTT

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in a world brimming with complexity few creatures

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embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless

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precision she dances from bloom to bloom each

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motion guided by millennia upon millennia of

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instinct each act in service to the whole and

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then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards

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of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,

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part poet, they move along their hives with the

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efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to

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the bees' needs as best they can comprehend,

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and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the

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Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing

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like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their

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journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love, Be Keeping

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presented by our great friends over at Man Lake.

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Today we're headed to the land down under to

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get an update on Varroa in Australia plus some

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other crazy things about beekeeping there. In

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fact have you ever heard of the bee eating cane

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toad? Well we're going to learn about that but

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first let's catch up on some beekeeping news

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from around the globe. According to a study led

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by researchers at Penn State, diets rich in polyunsaturated

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fatty acids may help protect honey bees against

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the toxic effect of pesticides. The study, published

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in the Journal of Insect Physiology, described

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the effects of diets rich in various fats, saturated,

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monounsaturated, or polyunsaturated fatty acids.

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on bee survival after exposure to a popular pesticide.

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The team found that bees fed a diet high in polyunsaturated

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fatty acids had a 90 percent survival rate after

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exposure to the pesticide, whereas fewer than

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50 percent of bees fed diets high in saturated

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or monounsaturated fats survived. So get your

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bees eating the right kinds of fats. Next, dieticians

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have been studying what is the healthiest kind

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of honey. Here's what they've come up with so

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far. Dark, unfiltered honey, which gets its color

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from the type of nectar used to make it, may

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have more health benefits than other types. The

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differences though are likely modest, the experts

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say. Dark honey varieties tend to contain higher

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levels of antioxidants. These include honeys

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like buckwheat and manuka, among others. And

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when honey is not filtered, it also means it's

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going to have more pollen, enzymes, and antioxidants.

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Lastly, from Japan, they have just found a fossil

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that fills the two million year gap in honeybee

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history. Archaeologists recently found a fossil

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dating back between 2 .8 and 2 .2 million years

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ago. Preserved in siltstone the specimen shows

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a worker bee roughly 10 millimeters long with

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wings hind legs and body segments clear enough

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to allow detailed comparison with living honeybee

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species. Based on wing vein patterns and leg

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structure, researchers argue that the fossil

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bears a strong resemblance to a honeybee species

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found today only in the Philippines and Indonesia.

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So there you go, you're caught up on a little

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bit of honeybee news from around the world. Now

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let's go down to Australia. I'd like to welcome

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back to the show Cedar Anderson coming to us

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down from Australia. How are you today Cedar?

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Great thank you and thanks for having me again.

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Tell us exactly where you live because we're

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going to be talking a little bit about beekeeping

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in Australia today among many other things. So

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we're in a small town called Byron Bay, which

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is on the east coast of Australia. In fact, it's

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the most easterly point and it's a very green

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wet area usually, although we can get severe

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drought as well. But normally we have a lot of

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rain, a lot of things flowering actually all

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through the winter time. So it's a subtropical

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region. We never have to feed the bees here because

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their flowers tend to go quite well actually

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even through the winter. Sounds a little bit

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like paradise. Look it certainly is and I think

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that the bees think so too at least they did

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till Varroa came to the shores a couple of years

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ago. We're going to be talking about all kinds

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of things today but as long as you brought it

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up let's talk about Varroa in Australia because

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for those that aren't familiar there was no Varroa

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on your whole continent until what, three years

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ago? So that's it. Yeah, it came into a place

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called Newcastle, which is in New South Wales,

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the state that we are in, and it's slowly been

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spreading out. I mean, having said that, it travels

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as fast as a truckload of bees do, but there

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was a big effort to actually contain it. But

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unfortunately the detection was far too late

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and it was already off and racing and it was

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too hard to control the movement of hives. So

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there was a big effort by primary industry and

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they burnt 10 ,000 hives, then decided that it

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was a loss. So Varroa is now part of this continent,

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just like it is for yours. And it's slowly spreading

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out. We had that come to our region a year and

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a half ago, specifically to where we are. The

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buildup phase was quite a thing. I don't know

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if you were beekeeping when Varroa hit your area,

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but basically what happens is a whole lot of

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hives start getting weak and dying out from Varroa.

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And then your hives, even though you're trying

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to manage them well, go. and collect the remaining

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resources, the honey, and bring back the mites.

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Then we have those small hive beetles in our

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area which then decimate those wheat colonies

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and you get thousands and thousands of hive beetle

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larvae crawling out into the ground and then

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you get a hive beetle boom. So what was happening

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for us is it was the hive beetles that were taking

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out the hives, not the varroa, even though the

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varroa was the catalyst and is what weakened

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the hives. It sounds a lot, obviously, like what

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happens here. We often say, oh, winter killed

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my bees. But it probably wasn't winter. It was

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probably the fact that they were very weak from

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a varroa load in the fall. And that weakness

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meant that they weren't as resilient against

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the winter weather as they normally are. That

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all just sounds too familiar. You mentioned about

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10 ,000 hives were burned. I read some things

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that made it sound even worse than that, like

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100 ,000 plus hives. Was that just hyperbole

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by our journalists or something? right, you could

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be right, there was big effort actually to contain

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it and unfortunately it didn't work out. There

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is a bit of a light at the end of the tunnel

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for us and we're seeing that now where all of

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a sudden the hives are looking good again, the

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Varroa numbers are stable, there's hives we haven't

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done anything to for three, four months now.

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And they're getting a wash count of like two

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or four mites, you know, and that is really different

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to a year ago when you turn your back and there's

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a count of 200 mites in the hive. So the buildup

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phase, hopefully, is mostly over for our particular

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area. But if we travel just further north, even

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just three hours drive, they're right in the

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thick of it now because of the way Varroa has

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been spreading out. Eventually, and I hope it's

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this coming season, we join the rest of the world

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with more normal beekeeping, with Varroa being

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a part of it, but not necessarily the big scary

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monster that has been in the build -up phase

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here. It'd be interesting to know what it's like

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for you where you are in terms of is it something

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you're managing often or is it something you

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need to manage Varroa twice a year or what's

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kind of normal? Not just here. I'm in the state

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of Utah, but over most of North America The idea

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is you have to be on top of it all the time And

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that doesn't mean that you're treating all the

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time But it means you've got to do your might

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counts and you've got to know what's going on

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So when our bees come out of winter, we need

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to know where they're at in the middle of summer

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We need to know where they're at. I'm a believer

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in treat if they need to be treated and don't

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treat if they don't need to be treated. Now there's

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people on every end of the spectrum that never

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treat or that have some kind of an IPM that they

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have in place that just doesn't include any kinds

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of chemicals. There are other beekeepers bless

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their hearts that feel like hey there are always

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mites so I'm just always going to treat. So there's

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every end of the spectrum here but there isn't

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a particular like hey we have to deal with it

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once or twice a year. If you're in a cold climate

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especially and you wait till fall and you do

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a mite test and it's high it's probably too late.

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It's time you can okay let's let's get those

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honey supers off let's get some treatment on

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and let's see if we can knock this stuff down

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but it may be too late. So make sure by mid -summer

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the varroa load is in a good place and just keep

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it that way going into fall. That's kind of where

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we're at. Tell me what kinds of treatments that

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you're using there in Australia. So for me personally,

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I want to keep things organic, so I was using

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the organic acids, formic acid and oxalic acid

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and really experimenting and learning and finding

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that the formic acid really does knock the mites

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down extremely well. Even under the caffeine,

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we were digging out the pupa and counting how

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many mites died and so on and getting scientific

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about it. We're really finding the formic acid

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does a great job. of knocking down the mite load

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from potentially, you know, it could be at 30,

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it could be 100 in a wash, and it'll be right

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down to two or none after a couple of weeks.

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That said, there's seemed to be like a 10 % chance

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of losing your queen in that process. So that's

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the complication with formic acid. Another thing

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we've found with formic is a lot of flow hive

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customers would just put it in the tray in the

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bottom, which means they don't even have to open

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the hive to apply it. They put the formic pad

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or two down in the tray and the next day it's

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literally raining mites into the tray. So it

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works very well from that area, which means it's

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just quite a user -friendly way to apply that

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treatment. And other people were experimenting

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with, well, okay, if it rains down just overnight,

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how about we just use it overnight? And that

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seemed to be an effective way. Even though this

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is all off -label treatments, it's quite interesting

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to see how people are using that formic acid.

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With the idea being perhaps if there was less

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exposure, there's less likelihood of losing the

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queen, but it did a good job of knocking down

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the mite load. And then there's oxalic acid,

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which in the form of strips, which seems to be

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good for just holding the mite load low once

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it is low. And then the fogging seemed to be

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useful as well. If you're prepared to buy one

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of those fogging machines, you've got to get

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the gas mask and all of that. But once you invest

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in that, then it's really quite quick. You can

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just go along and it's 30 seconds or so each

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hive. So if you've got a number of hives, that

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seemed to be a useful way. Of course, you're

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only getting the phoretic mites, the ones on

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the bees, you're not touching them under the

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capping. So you've got to come back in a week

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and do it again and perhaps in another week.

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And that seemed to work well. There's also a

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drizzle available which I didn't really use.

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I'm glad that you guys have been able to learn

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a lot from us, just the things that we've learned

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over time. And I will tell you watch out for

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resistance, whether it's formic or something

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else. The mites can develop a resistance. There's

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a lot of people that have been like, hey, for

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the last five years, I've used the same treatment.

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It worked every year. I know it works. So I'm

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going to keep using it. And then all of a sudden,

00:14:00.350 --> 00:14:03.990
one year, it doesn't. So keep an open mind to

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all of that and keep experimenting because we

00:14:06.190 --> 00:14:08.850
do not have it 100 % figured out. That's for

00:14:08.850 --> 00:14:11.820
sure. Or it wouldn't be a problem. Absolutely,

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yes. We're experimenting around the clock here,

00:14:14.980 --> 00:14:17.639
trying to work out the best ways to approach

00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:20.799
it and trying to work out the best information

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to put forward to those that are just getting

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the varroa now. It's been quite an interesting

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journey. Of course, we wish it hadn't come to

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the shores, but we've certainly learnt a lot

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more about beekeeping. having to really get intimate

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with pulling out larvae, pulling out pupa, checking

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it all out, seeing what's going on and actually

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having to do a lot more intervention in the hives.

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Hopefully that will subside now that we're over

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that buildup phase and yes, forever we join you

00:14:56.299 --> 00:15:01.279
guys managing those mites, but hopefully it's

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not too onerous. in terms of the season and what

00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:08.759
we need to do. Of course, we've got a different

00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:11.519
season here where there's not much of a winter,

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so there's not that brood break that you guys

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get, which changes the dynamics a bit. In terms

00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:21.519
of resistance, well, we're already seeing resistance

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to the synthetics, bave roll, and amatras, where

00:15:25.539 --> 00:15:28.480
commercial beekeepers are already concerned about

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the next... next season, our spring coming, because

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they've already seen resistance to those. So

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that's, you know, only in a season or two that

00:15:38.029 --> 00:15:41.950
that resistance has built up. All right. Let's

00:15:41.950 --> 00:15:43.889
talk about some other fun things that you've

00:15:43.889 --> 00:15:47.070
been involved with. Last time we had you on,

00:15:47.110 --> 00:15:49.850
we talked a little bit about the Superlifter

00:15:49.850 --> 00:15:53.029
and I'll put a link in the show notes if people

00:15:53.029 --> 00:15:57.809
want to go back and see that because it is just

00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:01.059
the coolest thing, especially for those of us

00:16:01.059 --> 00:16:03.759
that are getting a little bit older and the back

00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:07.379
gets a little sore lifting those heavy frames.

00:16:07.620 --> 00:16:11.019
The super lifter is just a really cool thing.

00:16:11.460 --> 00:16:14.279
But you've got a new book out and I've got a

00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:16.700
copy of it. I have to tell you, it's pretty cool.

00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:20.860
When I first jumped into it, I thought, oh, this

00:16:20.860 --> 00:16:24.059
is just a beginner book. And so I kind of was

00:16:24.059 --> 00:16:26.480
going through it kind of fast. Tell us about

00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.539
the book in general. You and your dad wrote it.

00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:33.879
What was the purpose? Who is it for? Okay, for

00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:36.700
many years there's been pressure to write a book

00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:42.259
and I guess we've been busy. We've been amazingly

00:16:42.259 --> 00:16:45.460
busy with the launch and the success of the flow

00:16:45.460 --> 00:16:48.519
hives and delivering all of those crowdfunding

00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:53.340
hives and then keeping it going. So each year

00:16:53.340 --> 00:16:55.759
actually the publisher would come and say, hey,

00:16:56.139 --> 00:16:58.340
we need to write this book. And then no, no thanks,

00:16:58.500 --> 00:17:01.620
no thanks. A decade in, and we finally went,

00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:04.160
yeah, okay, okay, let's write the book. It would

00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:07.220
be appreciated for our customers, for those that

00:17:07.220 --> 00:17:12.299
really like to read. an overwhelming amount of

00:17:12.299 --> 00:17:14.960
video training content, both on the beekeeper

00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:16.859
.org and on our channels and all of that. And

00:17:16.859 --> 00:17:19.220
that's been amazing. But for those that like

00:17:19.220 --> 00:17:23.019
to read, that's what this book is for. The aim

00:17:23.019 --> 00:17:26.460
of it is it's an inspiring read wherever you

00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:30.460
open up to. There's amazing things about bees

00:17:30.460 --> 00:17:35.279
that have that curiosity angle and that inspiration.

00:17:35.579 --> 00:17:40.200
And we want people that after reading it. almost

00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:44.680
have more questions than answers and that curiosity

00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:48.200
to just keep learning about bees, which is what

00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:51.000
it's all about, right? Not only that, we also

00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:55.079
want it to be a very useful manual, practical

00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:59.920
manual on how to look after your hives and specifically

00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:03.059
flow hives. which there hasn't really been in

00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:05.240
the world. There are some differences, of course,

00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:07.420
it's a beehive, there's bees, the brood nest

00:18:07.420 --> 00:18:11.599
is the same, but we've got a whole lot of information

00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:15.140
specifically to do with the way the flow hives

00:18:15.140 --> 00:18:17.099
set up and all the things were built into that.

00:18:17.660 --> 00:18:22.759
We've also got the story. of the Flow Hive upfront,

00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:25.779
explaining the whole crowdfunding boom and how

00:18:25.779 --> 00:18:30.160
we raised $12 million in eight weeks of pre -orders

00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.299
of our Flow Hive and started with that crazy

00:18:33.299 --> 00:18:36.299
boom where we had to deliver 25 ,000 hives before

00:18:36.299 --> 00:18:38.779
Christmas and that story that you probably already

00:18:38.779 --> 00:18:41.660
know. It's one that you have to just take a great

00:18:41.660 --> 00:18:45.940
big breath. So many people are absolutely jealous.

00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:48.579
I mean, millions that have tried crowdfunding.

00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:51.960
and not had that kind of success. And then on

00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.599
the other side, it's like, here's a great problem

00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:57.220
to have. How do we deliver all of this merchandise

00:18:57.220 --> 00:19:00.700
this fast? And then it is a fun story and a good

00:19:00.700 --> 00:19:03.099
read. By the way, we haven't even mentioned the

00:19:03.099 --> 00:19:06.680
name. It's called Flow Hive's book of bees and

00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:11.500
beekeeping. And I'm just going to say it's not

00:19:11.500 --> 00:19:14.960
just for Flow Hive users. there's lots of good

00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:17.880
information about beekeeping in here. And one

00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:21.180
of the things that I liked besides pretty pictures

00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:24.660
is the fact that in the back there's an index

00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:27.220
and so you can look up Varroa, you can look up

00:19:27.220 --> 00:19:30.480
feeding, you can look up whatever and it'll take

00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.480
you to something. So that sounds a little bit

00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:36.960
like a college textbook but it's much more of

00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:40.660
an enjoyable read than that. So off the Varroa

00:19:40.660 --> 00:19:44.539
topic. Are there any other kinds of pests that

00:19:44.539 --> 00:19:47.500
are unique to Australia that I don't have to

00:19:47.500 --> 00:19:51.339
worry about here in North America or in England

00:19:51.339 --> 00:19:54.900
or Scotland or wherever that you have to deal

00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:58.039
with that we don't? Yeah, absolutely. We've got

00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:01.599
all sorts of bee eating pests around and one

00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:04.579
of them is an introduced species called a cane

00:20:04.579 --> 00:20:07.769
toad. Quick break to discuss what just might

00:20:07.769 --> 00:20:11.710
be on your mind right now. Come on admit it You're

00:20:11.710 --> 00:20:14.910
imagining the upcoming honey harvest because

00:20:14.910 --> 00:20:16.930
no matter where you live in the world It's either

00:20:16.930 --> 00:20:20.309
here now or it will be in the near future and

00:20:20.309 --> 00:20:23.849
Man Lake is making it so easy to plan for Click

00:20:23.849 --> 00:20:26.869
on over to Man Lake's website for an amazing

00:20:26.869 --> 00:20:31.109
selection of extractors filters bottling supplies

00:20:31.109 --> 00:20:35.259
uncapping knives supplies for a comb honey everything

00:20:35.259 --> 00:20:38.599
and I mean everything you'll need. But if you

00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:41.059
aren't there quite yet and the honey flow is

00:20:41.059 --> 00:20:44.019
right around the corner, make sure you have extra

00:20:44.019 --> 00:20:47.539
supers on hand. You never can have too many or

00:20:47.539 --> 00:20:50.680
be too prepared. And right now Man Lake is offering

00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:55.259
podcast listeners $10 off your next order. Just

00:20:55.259 --> 00:20:59.980
enter code MLBLove10 at checkout. That's manlakeltd

00:20:59.980 --> 00:21:05.740
.com. Discount code MLBLove10. And one of them

00:21:05.740 --> 00:21:08.900
is an introduced species called a cane toad,

00:21:09.220 --> 00:21:11.559
which has been spreading out from Queensland.

00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:18.079
They are quite a large toad and they love eating

00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:20.720
bees. In fact, if your hives are just set up

00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:24.779
on the ground like bee hives often are, the toads

00:21:24.779 --> 00:21:27.279
will knock on the hive in the night. The bees

00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:29.160
will come out to see what's going on and they'll

00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:30.940
gobble them up and they'll do that all night.

00:21:31.460 --> 00:21:35.180
And I was around here two months ago and I happened

00:21:35.180 --> 00:21:37.819
to be at the hives at night and I took photos

00:21:37.819 --> 00:21:42.140
of there'll be 20 cane toads piled up at the

00:21:42.140 --> 00:21:44.380
entrance of the hive. I don't know how they don't

00:21:44.380 --> 00:21:47.019
get stung in their mouths or maybe they do and

00:21:47.019 --> 00:21:51.099
don't care, but they love eating bees. In fact,

00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:53.740
one hive wasn't doing so well. This is going

00:21:53.740 --> 00:21:56.960
back 20 years and I wondered why it wasn't. I

00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:01.220
lifted the box up. And inside was a cane toad

00:22:01.220 --> 00:22:03.480
that had gotten in the entrance when it was small.

00:22:03.700 --> 00:22:06.480
It was living inside the hive, like this big

00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:08.380
scary monster. The bees had got to come through

00:22:08.380 --> 00:22:10.480
the entrance and they get gobbled up as they

00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:13.880
go. Normally the toads stay on the outside, right?

00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:19.140
And that's why we've built our hive stand basically

00:22:19.140 --> 00:22:23.960
sort of into the form of the hive. So we came

00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:26.329
along and went, hang on. rather than just a base

00:22:26.329 --> 00:22:29.230
that goes on a stand, let's build the stand into

00:22:29.230 --> 00:22:31.869
the hive. So that's what you see in our flow

00:22:31.869 --> 00:22:34.450
hives now and each corner has an adjustable leg

00:22:34.450 --> 00:22:37.309
and we've got levels in the side just to set

00:22:37.309 --> 00:22:39.750
it up nicely for honey harvesting and if you're

00:22:39.750 --> 00:22:42.269
drawing naturally drawn comb then having it level

00:22:42.269 --> 00:22:45.710
side to side is useful as well. But more importantly

00:22:45.710 --> 00:22:49.589
the hive is off the ground so those toads can't

00:22:49.589 --> 00:22:52.869
directly gobble those bees at the entrance. So

00:22:52.869 --> 00:22:55.869
what they do is they sit underneath and it's

00:22:55.869 --> 00:22:57.690
only when the bees are really building up and

00:22:57.690 --> 00:23:00.089
hanging down at night. So when they're bearding

00:23:00.089 --> 00:23:02.650
they'll actually come and start gobbling up that

00:23:02.650 --> 00:23:05.750
beard? Yeah, absolutely. So it's a little bit

00:23:05.750 --> 00:23:09.289
of annoying and it's useful as a beekeeper to

00:23:09.289 --> 00:23:11.369
go around and collect up those toads from time

00:23:11.369 --> 00:23:15.130
to time and lessen them. So that means walking

00:23:15.130 --> 00:23:19.220
around with a garbage bag and at night If they've

00:23:19.220 --> 00:23:22.599
got a torch shining on them, then they don't

00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:25.319
actually move. They stay still. So you can simply

00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:26.980
just pick them up by the back legs. You've got

00:23:26.980 --> 00:23:29.660
to avoid the poison glands, which are just behind

00:23:29.660 --> 00:23:33.240
their eyes. They do have a toxin. And you pick

00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:35.720
up their legs and you chuck them in the garbage

00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:39.019
bag. And I've been walking around and my arms

00:23:39.019 --> 00:23:41.500
sore from the weight of the bag. That's how many

00:23:41.500 --> 00:23:44.640
totes you're getting. And then typically, I mean,

00:23:44.740 --> 00:23:46.359
there's all different ways. People say put them

00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:48.420
in the fridge to sedate them, then put them in

00:23:48.420 --> 00:23:50.859
the freezer is the most humane way, and then

00:23:50.859 --> 00:23:54.319
they die, right? Up in Queensland, there's certainly

00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:57.279
a lot of people who prefer to run around with

00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:00.200
golf clubs and things like that. This introduced

00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:04.339
species that does have quite an impact on local

00:24:04.339 --> 00:24:08.720
species that eat them. certain types of snakes,

00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:12.400
there's goannas, there's all sorts of animals

00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:17.319
that suffer from trying to eat those toads. So

00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:22.200
you find that they're decimating a lot of native

00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:24.559
species because they have that toxin and that

00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:28.279
poison. However, some are starting to work it

00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:29.960
out. And just yesterday I found one of these

00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:32.819
toads flipped upside down, their heart pecked

00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:36.569
out. So something And I think it's a native type

00:24:36.569 --> 00:24:39.589
of rat is actually working out how to flip the

00:24:39.589 --> 00:24:42.009
toad over, make an incision and eat the organs

00:24:42.009 --> 00:24:46.450
that it wants to. So over time balance will form

00:24:46.450 --> 00:24:49.450
again. We also have the rainbow bee eaters, which

00:24:49.450 --> 00:24:53.509
I'm actually looking at about 20 of them in a

00:24:53.509 --> 00:24:58.089
tree. They're beautiful rainbow bird and they

00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:02.519
like to catch the bees on the wing. Now, they

00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:04.740
come and go. They're seasonal. I don't usually

00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:07.579
worry about them. It's not something you need

00:25:07.579 --> 00:25:11.480
to do anything about. I figure fair's fair. We've

00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:14.460
brought in Apis mellifera, the European honeybee.

00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:17.319
And if some of the native species want to eat

00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:20.279
some, then, you know, you're doing a little bit

00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:23.880
of a service there for those rainbow bee eaters.

00:25:24.279 --> 00:25:27.259
Wow. You mentioned snakes a minute ago. I see

00:25:27.259 --> 00:25:30.559
so many documentaries about poisonous snakes

00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.640
in Australia. It's like, you should be afraid

00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:35.839
to get off the plane or something when you get

00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:39.380
there because it's just, it's just crazy how

00:25:39.380 --> 00:25:41.559
many poisonous things there are. I had not heard

00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.900
about those toads. Do you have skunks there?

00:25:45.619 --> 00:25:49.099
No skunks. So I've heard they can eat a few bees.

00:25:49.460 --> 00:25:51.759
They do a similar thing. They come at night.

00:25:52.190 --> 00:25:55.029
They scratch on the entrance. They don't knock

00:25:55.029 --> 00:25:56.869
like you were mentioning with the toads, but

00:25:56.869 --> 00:26:00.150
they scratch. Bees come out and somehow they

00:26:00.150 --> 00:26:03.970
can eat them up. And we do not grab them by the

00:26:03.970 --> 00:26:06.269
back legs and throw them in a bag. That'd be

00:26:06.269 --> 00:26:10.490
a horribly bad idea. You can imagine that with

00:26:10.490 --> 00:26:13.529
the skunks. Anyway. It doesn't matter where you

00:26:13.529 --> 00:26:15.450
are in the world, there's going to be predators.

00:26:15.690 --> 00:26:19.150
There's going to be mites or some other thing

00:26:19.150 --> 00:26:22.329
infesting. Gee, we hear about these tropy mites

00:26:22.329 --> 00:26:25.109
all the time now. We're keeping them at bay as

00:26:25.109 --> 00:26:29.509
long as we possibly can. There's the Asian hornets

00:26:29.509 --> 00:26:32.170
or also known as yellow -legged hornets, which

00:26:32.170 --> 00:26:34.890
we now have in the states, a couple of the southern

00:26:34.890 --> 00:26:37.309
states, and they're trying to keep them from

00:26:37.309 --> 00:26:41.579
spreading. The Asian giant hornets, also known

00:26:41.579 --> 00:26:45.640
as murder hornets, have hit our doorstep and

00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:48.319
have been kept at bay and hopefully that will

00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:52.180
keep there for a long time. But we do have something

00:26:52.180 --> 00:26:55.099
that I'm sure that you don't and that we have

00:26:55.099 --> 00:26:58.559
to deal with in most of the southern states here,

00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:01.339
and that is Africanized bees. You don't have

00:27:01.339 --> 00:27:04.599
those in Australia, do you? We don't. Give us

00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:07.880
a little rundown on the Africanized bees. So

00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:10.980
these were developed in a lab. I believe it was

00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:15.299
in Brazil many many years ago like 50 60 years

00:27:15.299 --> 00:27:20.349
ago and the idea was You had a beekeeper slash

00:27:20.349 --> 00:27:23.829
scientist that was trying to do a hybrid with

00:27:23.829 --> 00:27:28.589
some bees from Africa mixed with Apis mellifera

00:27:28.589 --> 00:27:31.470
and Hey, we're gonna have something better that

00:27:31.470 --> 00:27:34.869
creates more honey and is still friendly problem

00:27:34.869 --> 00:27:37.589
was they weren't friendly They were really mean

00:27:37.589 --> 00:27:40.509
they escaped the lab and they have gradually

00:27:40.509 --> 00:27:44.950
made their way through Central America Mexico

00:27:44.950 --> 00:27:48.869
and now up here in some of our southern states,

00:27:49.089 --> 00:27:52.990
California, Arizona, Nevada, Texas, and they're

00:27:52.990 --> 00:27:57.250
pretty good bees as far as honeymakers and as

00:27:57.250 --> 00:28:01.569
far as reproducing and even have some good Varroa

00:28:01.569 --> 00:28:05.410
resistance to their genes, but they're mean buggers.

00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:08.079
And that's the problem. And they've been known

00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:12.000
to, in some areas, actually, you know, do great

00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:15.059
harm to people and kill some people because they

00:28:15.059 --> 00:28:18.779
get really upset. And instead of five guard bees

00:28:18.779 --> 00:28:21.319
coming out and knocking you in the head or something,

00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:25.160
you'll have hundreds of them pour out of a hive

00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:28.339
and chase you quite a long ways. I'm glad I've

00:28:28.339 --> 00:28:30.859
not had that experience yet, but I've talked

00:28:30.859 --> 00:28:35.240
to people that have. The good news about that,

00:28:35.420 --> 00:28:37.339
we're going to have here in the next couple of

00:28:37.339 --> 00:28:41.740
weeks, some scientists on the show from University

00:28:41.740 --> 00:28:46.579
of California, Riverside, who are studying the

00:28:46.579 --> 00:28:49.799
genetics of some bees have hybridized on their

00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:53.579
own. So they're Apis mellifera with some of these,

00:28:53.859 --> 00:28:56.420
what are known as Africanized bees. And they've

00:28:56.420 --> 00:28:59.440
gone down many, many generations and they're

00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:02.000
finding that the temperament is getting better.

00:29:02.250 --> 00:29:06.730
And the Varroa resistance is really, really good.

00:29:07.190 --> 00:29:10.230
Now what becomes of that over the long term?

00:29:10.490 --> 00:29:13.950
I don't know. If some longer term studies find

00:29:13.950 --> 00:29:16.329
this really is a thing and it's really worth

00:29:16.329 --> 00:29:19.609
it, are they going to start breeding them widely?

00:29:19.690 --> 00:29:22.430
And then we can buy these just like we can buy

00:29:22.430 --> 00:29:25.250
Russian bees or we can buy Buckfast bees or something

00:29:25.250 --> 00:29:28.859
else. So we'll see where all that goes. The genetics

00:29:28.859 --> 00:29:31.680
side is quite an interesting space and it's something

00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:33.980
we're interested in here. We've actually put

00:29:33.980 --> 00:29:36.839
funding a couple of years ago towards helping

00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:41.039
that space kick off here in Australia. And we

00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.839
actually have been purchasing in some queens

00:29:44.839 --> 00:29:49.490
that have been specifically bred for the Varroa

00:29:49.490 --> 00:29:52.069
resistant traits and now we're going through

00:29:52.069 --> 00:29:56.589
observations on those hives to see whether they're

00:29:56.589 --> 00:29:59.450
doing the uncapping behavior and recapping and

00:29:59.450 --> 00:30:03.750
so on in order to disrupt the breeding cycle

00:30:03.750 --> 00:30:06.250
of the mite. Australia is quite an interesting

00:30:06.250 --> 00:30:10.210
test case in genetics as well because the percentage

00:30:10.210 --> 00:30:14.880
of wild hives is so much higher. than a lot of

00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:17.059
other countries because we've got so much wild

00:30:17.059 --> 00:30:20.200
space. So we're going to get this natural genetic

00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:23.039
selection as well happening out there in the

00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:26.400
wild, which will then feed into the managed colonies

00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:30.180
as well. So there is high hopes in Australia

00:30:30.180 --> 00:30:34.940
that the genetics side of things will play a

00:30:34.940 --> 00:30:41.599
good role in getting Baroa to a naturally resistant

00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:45.019
strain of bees, I guess. We're finding it can

00:30:45.019 --> 00:30:47.200
come from a couple of different ways. One is

00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:50.980
they can have hygienic traits. Another one is

00:30:50.980 --> 00:30:55.400
they can just be bees where Varroa doesn't bother

00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:57.740
them that much. I'm not using any scientific

00:30:57.740 --> 00:31:00.740
terms here forgive me people, but there are different

00:31:00.740 --> 00:31:03.880
ways that bees are dealing on their own with

00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.750
Varroa. All right, hey Cedar. Co -inventor of

00:31:07.750 --> 00:31:11.049
Flow Hive and all kinds of other things, Hive

00:31:11.049 --> 00:31:14.430
Lifter, Fun Book, any other inventions that you

00:31:14.430 --> 00:31:17.029
have coming out? Yeah, absolutely. Watch this

00:31:17.029 --> 00:31:19.390
space where we're working hard. We're working

00:31:19.390 --> 00:31:24.509
around the clock on non -chemical Varroa treatments.

00:31:25.150 --> 00:31:28.190
So hopefully you'll see in this next year something

00:31:28.190 --> 00:31:32.210
very useful and easy for people to use. I've

00:31:32.210 --> 00:31:35.190
met with a couple of people that also have some.

00:31:35.230 --> 00:31:37.509
I'm not going to name names right now. When we're

00:31:37.509 --> 00:31:39.890
done talking here you and I'll chat a little

00:31:39.890 --> 00:31:41.710
bit about that because I'm curious where you're

00:31:41.710 --> 00:31:43.950
going and maybe a year from now we'll be able

00:31:43.950 --> 00:31:47.089
to talk about that. Before I let you go, we get

00:31:47.089 --> 00:31:49.470
to have a little bit of fun. Tell us about some

00:31:49.470 --> 00:31:52.049
kind of a wild and crazy beekeeping story that

00:31:52.049 --> 00:31:55.710
you've had. We want to remind everybody it is

00:31:55.710 --> 00:31:58.130
all about the love of bees and it's okay to have

00:31:58.130 --> 00:32:01.380
fun beekeeping. My memory fails me, but I think

00:32:01.380 --> 00:32:04.339
last time I was on your podcast, I might've talked

00:32:04.339 --> 00:32:07.319
about using the Superlifter, but I'll tell you

00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:09.640
about another story and that in the middle of

00:32:09.640 --> 00:32:12.579
the crowdfunding, because we had that insane

00:32:12.579 --> 00:32:18.500
success, we had attracted the media of the world.

00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:21.900
We had like something like 10 new US publications

00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:26.119
every day were featuring us. And that meant from

00:32:26.119 --> 00:32:30.660
dawn to dusk. We were fielding media. Inquiries

00:32:30.660 --> 00:32:33.599
and only taking the good ones. You can't just

00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:35.880
be in the media all day. There's a company to

00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:38.859
run the staff issues. We've got to set up a supply

00:32:38.859 --> 00:32:41.859
chain to deliver 25 ,000 hives that we've never

00:32:41.859 --> 00:32:44.220
made before Christmas and all of that. Right.

00:32:44.660 --> 00:32:47.500
One of the ones we said, yeah, come on down was,

00:32:47.500 --> 00:32:50.940
was, uh, New York times. We said, yeah, yeah,

00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:53.400
you can come to our place and, and, and do an

00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:58.230
article. So they're all setting up. And I'm going

00:32:58.230 --> 00:33:01.289
to get one of the big honey jars, which is resting

00:33:01.289 --> 00:33:06.470
on a hive just down the way. And we don't have

00:33:06.470 --> 00:33:08.910
the Africanized bees here, but certainly the

00:33:08.910 --> 00:33:12.049
hives I used to keep were quiet, aggressive.

00:33:12.990 --> 00:33:15.690
So I went to get this jar that was just sitting

00:33:15.690 --> 00:33:18.390
on top of another hive. What happened is I went

00:33:18.390 --> 00:33:20.609
to get the jar, bees got aggressive and started

00:33:20.609 --> 00:33:24.569
stinging me. And at that point, and I know these

00:33:24.569 --> 00:33:27.880
hives well, that the only way to get away from

00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:31.460
those hives is you've actually got to run through

00:33:31.460 --> 00:33:35.039
some foliage, right, and you lose the bees that

00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:37.519
are after you. Quite different to the lovely

00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:40.079
hives we keep now where you can almost be in

00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:42.680
that bee suit, right, and do your inspections.

00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:46.750
These were wild hives. straight away I dropped

00:33:46.750 --> 00:33:49.710
this jar, it was a big jar like this and it's

00:33:49.710 --> 00:33:51.769
smashed and I took off into the bushes and I'm

00:33:51.769 --> 00:33:54.150
running around trying to lose these bees and

00:33:54.150 --> 00:33:56.190
I get back up to where New York Times is setting

00:33:56.190 --> 00:33:58.670
up and they were looking the other way, they

00:33:58.670 --> 00:34:01.910
didn't see any of it. They could have made a

00:34:01.910 --> 00:34:04.670
great story about Cedar, this floe -hiving bender

00:34:04.670 --> 00:34:09.190
runs from his wild bees, but that was just kind

00:34:09.190 --> 00:34:13.469
of... illustrating what a crazy time it was where

00:34:13.469 --> 00:34:17.929
it was just one media thing after the other and

00:34:17.929 --> 00:34:21.010
that's one little memory that's stuck squarely

00:34:21.010 --> 00:34:24.210
in my head. And how did they not catch it? That's

00:34:24.210 --> 00:34:27.789
crazy. And it may have been embarrassing. You

00:34:27.789 --> 00:34:31.369
should be grateful for that, I guess. All right,

00:34:31.369 --> 00:34:33.409
a couple more questions here before we finish

00:34:33.409 --> 00:34:37.070
up. And one is, and you and I talked about this

00:34:37.070 --> 00:34:40.119
a little bit last time. One of the things that

00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:44.000
fascinates me about the Flow Hive is the fact

00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:46.980
that I'm not just waiting till the end of the

00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:50.260
season, or at least I don't need to, to do one

00:34:50.260 --> 00:34:53.239
great big harvest, which is going to be a very

00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:57.880
multi -floral kind of thing. But when there is

00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:01.500
a flow on that is just one particular thing near

00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:06.699
me, as soon as that's over, I can drain those

00:35:06.699 --> 00:35:11.539
frames, right? And so it makes it easier to say,

00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:15.780
let's say from April 15th until April 30th, I've

00:35:15.780 --> 00:35:18.340
got this blooming. And then in June, I have something

00:35:18.340 --> 00:35:21.679
else blooming. Doesn't it make it easier for

00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:24.880
me to have, okay, let's get some of this honey

00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:27.880
and then let's get some of that honey? Absolutely.

00:35:27.980 --> 00:35:31.079
And it's not something we set out to invent in

00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:35.460
a way. It happened by accident. The way you can

00:35:35.460 --> 00:35:37.760
use the Flow Hive, and a lot of people do, is

00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.659
you can harvest single frames to either a single

00:35:40.659 --> 00:35:43.360
big jar or to multiple little ones. But in doing

00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:47.400
so, you tend to isolate the flavors. And that's

00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:51.199
become an amazing bonus and a real joy with Flow

00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:53.780
Hives. You know, once upon a time, I used to

00:35:53.780 --> 00:35:57.079
mix the honey from 40 hives all together. I had

00:35:57.079 --> 00:35:59.139
a nine -frame radial extractor. I'd go through

00:35:59.139 --> 00:36:01.480
the hives, I'd spin them all out, and you'd get

00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:06.449
good honey. But to me, it's much more interesting.

00:36:06.449 --> 00:36:09.429
It has become an amazing thing to be able to

00:36:09.429 --> 00:36:12.170
isolate not only the honey from a single hive,

00:36:12.309 --> 00:36:15.710
but from a single frame. One will have these

00:36:15.710 --> 00:36:18.570
beautiful dark licorice tones. The one next to

00:36:18.570 --> 00:36:21.329
it, because the bees have been foraging on something

00:36:21.329 --> 00:36:25.389
different, might be a bright, light, very floral,

00:36:25.590 --> 00:36:29.579
blow your taste buds off honey. And to me, That

00:36:29.579 --> 00:36:32.480
is a real joy because you can bring all of those

00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:35.760
flavors back to the table and it tells a story

00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:40.159
of what's been flowering directly in your area.

00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:43.340
And in traditional beekeeping, for most of us,

00:36:43.380 --> 00:36:46.800
that's just not practical. I'm not going to pull

00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:49.400
a couple of frames here and a couple there and

00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:51.340
spin them down and do all that. There's too much

00:36:51.340 --> 00:36:54.940
cleanup involved for me to do that. So I thought

00:36:54.940 --> 00:36:59.159
that was pretty fun. To me bees are incredibly

00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:02.199
fascinating and one of the really interesting

00:37:02.199 --> 00:37:05.480
things that I think we've still got a lot to

00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:10.139
learn about is the way bees are able to navigate

00:37:10.139 --> 00:37:13.800
so precisely and we all know about the waggle

00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:16.659
dance and the way they do their figure of eight

00:37:16.659 --> 00:37:19.440
and that axis to the Sun is the angle and that's

00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:23.579
all incredible, right? But what I've witnessed

00:37:23.579 --> 00:37:28.300
in my life being around bees so much is the level

00:37:28.300 --> 00:37:34.119
of accuracy of their information they can transmit

00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:37.539
to each other is a lot more accurate than what

00:37:37.539 --> 00:37:41.780
we understand. They do their waggle and a second

00:37:41.780 --> 00:37:44.539
of waggle is about 750 meters of distance. So

00:37:44.539 --> 00:37:46.579
we've got distance and now we've got direction.

00:37:47.780 --> 00:37:51.820
But what I've noticed and through lots of examples,

00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:55.619
but One is, let's say you're in the shed, you're

00:37:55.619 --> 00:37:59.139
making a sticky mess, working with honey and

00:37:59.139 --> 00:38:03.000
a bee comes. A bee flies back to the hive, does

00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:05.380
a dance, tells the other hives, hey, there's

00:38:05.380 --> 00:38:08.820
easy honey to get in the shed. And they come

00:38:08.820 --> 00:38:13.159
and then you close the door and open the window,

00:38:13.260 --> 00:38:15.860
which might be just a couple of meters around

00:38:15.860 --> 00:38:18.860
the corner. What happens is you get a cloud of

00:38:18.860 --> 00:38:20.739
bees coming to exactly where they were coming

00:38:20.739 --> 00:38:24.449
in the door. And going, hang on a second, there's

00:38:24.449 --> 00:38:27.489
no honey here. So a bee goes back to the hive,

00:38:27.550 --> 00:38:29.989
does another dance and says, there's no honey.

00:38:30.630 --> 00:38:34.730
Or more accurately, the bees find the bee in

00:38:34.730 --> 00:38:36.849
there that's giving the directions. They jump

00:38:36.849 --> 00:38:39.789
on it, hold it down so it can no longer tell

00:38:39.789 --> 00:38:43.090
the hive where to go. Another bee has in the

00:38:43.090 --> 00:38:45.130
meantime, a few hours later, found that just

00:38:45.130 --> 00:38:47.789
around the corner, there's a window. And that's

00:38:47.789 --> 00:38:50.329
the way in. Goes back to the hive, tells some

00:38:50.329 --> 00:38:54.980
more information. That tells me that the accuracy

00:38:54.980 --> 00:38:59.719
of information isn't only distance and direction.

00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:03.760
It's exactly where the window is in the building

00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:08.079
to fly in. To me, there's a lot going on that

00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:13.519
we haven't studied yet. And that is throughout.

00:39:13.869 --> 00:39:16.690
bees in general. We've got a lot to learn about

00:39:16.690 --> 00:39:20.090
their brain, their capacity, their landmarks.

00:39:20.210 --> 00:39:24.869
There's new studies really showing how they are

00:39:24.869 --> 00:39:28.389
able to take in visual landmarks in a way that

00:39:28.389 --> 00:39:31.369
we didn't believe their brains were capable of.

00:39:32.150 --> 00:39:35.610
So to me, that's fascinating. They're so cool.

00:39:36.269 --> 00:39:39.409
And that communication, if we talk about swarm

00:39:39.409 --> 00:39:42.469
behavior, great. book on that is The Honey Bee

00:39:42.469 --> 00:39:45.309
Democracy, if you haven't read it. And it sounds

00:39:45.309 --> 00:39:47.989
like they're coming back from the scout bees

00:39:47.989 --> 00:39:51.250
or coming back from someplace they have found

00:39:51.250 --> 00:39:54.769
as a potential new home. And not just saying

00:39:54.769 --> 00:39:58.710
where it is, but saying either what's good about

00:39:58.710 --> 00:40:01.210
it or it's really good or something. We don't

00:40:01.210 --> 00:40:03.670
know exactly what they're saying through their

00:40:03.670 --> 00:40:07.429
dance, but they're explaining more than just

00:40:07.429 --> 00:40:10.949
where it is. Absolutely. Cedar, it's always fun

00:40:10.949 --> 00:40:14.489
talking. We'll check back in a while and thanks

00:40:14.489 --> 00:40:17.190
for being on the show. Thank you for having me.

00:40:20.070 --> 00:40:22.610
Thanks again for joining us on Be Love, Be Keeping

00:40:22.610 --> 00:40:25.650
presented by Man Lake. Another big thank you

00:40:25.650 --> 00:40:28.750
goes to Vita B Health for their support. Vita's

00:40:28.750 --> 00:40:31.909
Varroa Control Ranger products includes Epistan,

00:40:32.070 --> 00:40:36.369
Epigard, and now Varroxan Extended Release Oxalic

00:40:36.369 --> 00:40:39.329
Acids Trips. Hey thanks a lot guys. And if you

00:40:39.329 --> 00:40:41.809
haven't yet, please subscribe to and follow the

00:40:41.809 --> 00:40:43.989
show, tell your friends about it, and click on

00:40:43.989 --> 00:40:47.369
over to BeLoveBeKeeping .com to sign up for our

00:40:47.369 --> 00:40:50.289
free newsletter. If you have a guest suggestion

00:40:50.289 --> 00:40:53.449
or topic you'd like discussed on the show, shoot

00:40:53.449 --> 00:40:56.949
me an e - email erikatbelovebekeeping .com and

00:40:56.949 --> 00:40:59.469
remember if you're not just in it for the honey

00:40:59.469 --> 00:41:02.489
or the money, you're in it for the love. See

00:41:02.489 --> 00:41:03.210
you next week.