"Natural Nest Beekeeping" With Hippy Oregon Beekeepers

WEBVTT

00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:06.660
in a world brimming with complexity few creatures

00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:12.839
embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless

00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:17.699
precision she dances from bloom to bloom each

00:00:17.699 --> 00:00:22.420
motion guided by millennia upon millennia of

00:00:22.420 --> 00:00:28.800
instinct each act in service to the whole and

00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:34.560
then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards

00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:40.500
of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,

00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:45.460
part poet, they move along their hives with the

00:00:45.460 --> 00:00:50.539
efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to

00:00:50.539 --> 00:00:54.219
the bees' needs as best they can comprehend,

00:00:54.859 --> 00:00:59.670
and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the

00:00:59.670 --> 00:01:05.549
Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing

00:01:05.549 --> 00:01:12.150
like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their

00:01:12.150 --> 00:01:23.569
journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love Beekeeping

00:01:23.569 --> 00:01:26.329
presented by our great friends and partners in

00:01:26.329 --> 00:01:29.920
beekeeping. man like. I'm gonna try to keep this

00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:33.159
intro today very brief short and sweet because

00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:36.280
we have such a good interview coming to us today.

00:01:36.670 --> 00:01:41.329
We have beekeepers Joy and Eric McEwen from Oregon

00:01:41.329 --> 00:01:44.670
and we're going to be talking about natural nest

00:01:44.670 --> 00:01:47.989
beekeeping and a bunch of other really great

00:01:47.989 --> 00:01:50.950
things that they do to keep things as natural

00:01:50.950 --> 00:01:54.510
and as organic as possible on their beekeeping

00:01:54.510 --> 00:01:57.769
journey. And we'll be talking about apitherapy

00:01:57.769 --> 00:02:00.430
and their commercial beekeeping business in general.

00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:04.000
First, just one little thing, and that is, when

00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:06.659
was the last time that you spent some quality

00:02:06.659 --> 00:02:11.560
time with your bees? I did it this morning. I

00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:14.819
got up early, went for a hike in the mountains,

00:02:15.180 --> 00:02:18.560
came back, and just enjoyed some quality time

00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:20.620
with a handful of beehives that are right around

00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:24.819
my home. And you know, just instead of doing

00:02:24.819 --> 00:02:27.620
a regular inspection with a big checklist of

00:02:27.620 --> 00:02:31.590
things to get to, today was more like, hey girls

00:02:31.590 --> 00:02:34.870
how are you doing and we spent some time just

00:02:34.870 --> 00:02:37.310
watching their behavior in the entrance of the

00:02:37.310 --> 00:02:41.229
hive and then cracked the lid open pulled a couple

00:02:41.229 --> 00:02:45.569
frames oh you girls are doing so great hey i

00:02:45.569 --> 00:02:47.750
need to get you another honey super be right

00:02:47.750 --> 00:02:52.909
back and a couple others hey you new queen you're

00:02:52.909 --> 00:02:55.629
doing fantastic well you're maybe a little slow

00:02:55.629 --> 00:03:00.360
but uh no rush take your time things are going

00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:03.800
very well just go at your own pace I don't know

00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:06.180
I probably sound a little crazy having this sort

00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:09.599
of conversation with the bees but it was a very

00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.439
pleasant morning and please get out there and

00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:14.520
do it yourself it's all about the love of the

00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:22.139
bees I would like to welcome our very special

00:03:22.139 --> 00:03:24.580
guest today we're going out to Oregon in the

00:03:24.580 --> 00:03:28.259
US And we have Joy and Eric McEwen here. How

00:03:28.259 --> 00:03:30.960
are you two this morning? Very good. Very great

00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:33.120
to be here with you. Yeah, give us a big wave.

00:03:33.300 --> 00:03:36.400
I like that. And if you don't mind, I'm going

00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:39.060
to say this is a compliment. These are hippie

00:03:39.060 --> 00:03:42.379
beekeepers, and I think that is so awesome. And

00:03:42.379 --> 00:03:45.500
most of Oregon is probably that way. Anyway,

00:03:46.340 --> 00:03:50.319
there's my tangent to get us started with. But

00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:54.009
we're going to jump in with. My gosh, we have

00:03:54.009 --> 00:03:57.050
so much to talk about everything from apitherapy

00:03:57.050 --> 00:04:00.129
to natural beekeeping and and that's where I

00:04:00.129 --> 00:04:03.550
want to start because One thing that interests

00:04:03.550 --> 00:04:09.990
me and you Eric was the term natural nest Beekeeping

00:04:09.990 --> 00:04:13.289
which I don't know that I had heard before explain

00:04:13.289 --> 00:04:17.870
what that means Well, it is a term that we coined

00:04:17.870 --> 00:04:22.370
as an attempt to encompass our style of beekeeping.

00:04:22.910 --> 00:04:25.350
And so we really meant it to just sort of be

00:04:25.350 --> 00:04:29.110
an umbrella term that encompasses a whole suite

00:04:29.110 --> 00:04:32.850
of tenants of best management practices, if you

00:04:32.850 --> 00:04:35.829
will. We're the first to say that we're a work

00:04:35.829 --> 00:04:39.250
in progress. So we set the bar high and then

00:04:39.250 --> 00:04:42.269
we aim to attain it. And so many of the tenants

00:04:42.269 --> 00:04:44.149
of naturalness beekeeping are things that we're

00:04:44.149 --> 00:04:46.730
still still integrating into our operation. I

00:04:46.730 --> 00:04:50.220
guess it all starts with place. And it starts

00:04:50.220 --> 00:04:53.399
with the hive. So it's going to mean organic

00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:55.959
management practices. It's going to mean pristine

00:04:55.959 --> 00:04:58.860
locations. It's going to mean avoiding intensive

00:04:58.860 --> 00:05:01.980
agriculture. And then moving inward, it's going

00:05:01.980 --> 00:05:05.620
to mean a hive that is comprised of natural materials,

00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:10.839
no plastics, no paint. So, you know, wood, wax.

00:05:11.259 --> 00:05:14.199
In our case, we use a natural sealant that we

00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:17.829
make for our beehives out of beeswax, raw. linseed

00:05:17.829 --> 00:05:20.689
oil and pine rosin. It's a concern for the conditions

00:05:20.689 --> 00:05:22.949
that the bees are living in, in order to ensure

00:05:22.949 --> 00:05:25.649
an utmost purity of the bee products. And that

00:05:25.649 --> 00:05:28.709
overlaps into, you know, some of our discussion

00:05:28.709 --> 00:05:31.230
of medicinal, of the production of medicinal

00:05:31.230 --> 00:05:34.550
quality hive products. And so setting the stage

00:05:34.550 --> 00:05:37.779
for producing products like that. And then it's

00:05:37.779 --> 00:05:41.000
going to move into how we manage the bees, the

00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:43.000
ways in which we interact with the bees and,

00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:44.600
and some of the internal architecture of the

00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:47.819
hive. So we're a proponent of foundationless

00:05:47.819 --> 00:05:51.920
brood nests and we use modified frames to give

00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:55.399
us the opportunity to. adhere to biodynamic standards

00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:59.079
in regard to the brood nest, having foundationless

00:05:59.079 --> 00:06:01.319
brood nests that are of a size and shape that

00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:04.300
allows the bees to have a natural organization

00:06:04.300 --> 00:06:07.120
to the brood nest that is uninterrupted by frame

00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.220
parts, for instance. And then it's going to involve

00:06:10.220 --> 00:06:13.660
our practices, including queen rearing. So avoiding

00:06:13.660 --> 00:06:17.680
of the grafting procedure and kind of a returning

00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:20.540
of authority to the bees with regards to the

00:06:20.540 --> 00:06:23.680
rearing of queens. And for us, that means In

00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:26.459
hive queen rearing, queens being reared by their

00:06:26.459 --> 00:06:30.319
sisters from eggs laid by their mothers. I'm

00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:33.620
hearing let bees be bees. Exactly. Let's quit

00:06:33.620 --> 00:06:36.680
trying to make bees be what humans want them

00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:40.519
to be. And then it would be the utilization of

00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:43.220
integrated pest management practices for mite

00:06:43.220 --> 00:06:46.439
management. So a minimal interventionist mindset.

00:06:46.980 --> 00:06:48.500
What are some of those that you use? Because

00:06:48.500 --> 00:06:51.439
you also used the term organic earlier. And a

00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:54.060
lot of people jump from there to the term that's

00:06:54.060 --> 00:06:56.259
very controversial. I don't mind bringing it

00:06:56.259 --> 00:06:59.720
up. Treatment free beekeeping. And just so everybody

00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:02.980
knows, that doesn't mean ignore the bees and

00:07:02.980 --> 00:07:06.800
don't do anything. Tell us about your IPM philosophy.

00:07:07.220 --> 00:07:10.519
Well, I'm glad you bothered to make a distinguishment

00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:13.639
between. Treatment free and what what joy and

00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:15.839
i like to call and other people called do nothing

00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:18.920
be keeping right with that's actually kind of

00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:21.220
a tenant of our natural nest be keeping is that

00:07:21.220 --> 00:07:24.220
we are not do nothing be keepers right we are

00:07:24.220 --> 00:07:27.819
we are hands on but we we seek to minimize the

00:07:27.819 --> 00:07:31.000
amount of intervention that we do so for instance.

00:07:31.899 --> 00:07:34.019
Join i do not interrupt the procedure process

00:07:34.019 --> 00:07:37.800
when we find colony superseding we trust that

00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:41.560
the colony is aware of a problem. whether or

00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:44.399
not it's apparent to us and we leave the bees

00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:46.720
to do that. But backing up to your question about

00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:49.019
mite management and integrated pest management,

00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:53.120
one of the things that we do is we employ brood

00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:55.639
breaks. We'll employ those at multiple times

00:07:55.639 --> 00:08:00.740
a year in various ways. We also raise a lot of

00:08:00.740 --> 00:08:05.139
our new queens from eggs, from worker eggs, essentially

00:08:05.139 --> 00:08:07.660
as what we would call an emergency queen, a term

00:08:07.660 --> 00:08:10.240
that Joy and I don't really like. that in and

00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:13.779
of itself adds several days to the queen rearing

00:08:13.779 --> 00:08:18.360
process and results in a more significant brood

00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:21.600
break in the starter colony itself and we see

00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:24.920
that translate into much lower levels of viable

00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:28.139
mites in our new colonies each spring. We also

00:08:28.139 --> 00:08:30.779
utilize foundationless frames in our colonies

00:08:30.779 --> 00:08:33.720
and so because of that we get the production

00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:36.360
of whole frames of drone brood. And then we will

00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:38.879
transfer drone brood out of queen right over

00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:41.399
wintered colonies in the springtime as a means

00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:44.080
of mitigating mite levels. And it's fairly effective.

00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:46.899
And we'll move those frames of drone brood into

00:08:46.899 --> 00:08:50.480
queenless nucleus colonies, mating nukes, if

00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.340
you will, and thereby get the drones to, to where

00:08:54.340 --> 00:08:58.220
we want them. And also our room are transferring

00:08:58.220 --> 00:09:01.399
big proportions of mites out of our queen, right

00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:05.230
over wintered colonies. And by utilizing. Those

00:09:05.230 --> 00:09:08.070
techniques by making divides and so we'll remove

00:09:08.070 --> 00:09:11.389
brood from our colonies two times in the spring

00:09:11.389 --> 00:09:14.350
We'll target drone brood in that process and

00:09:14.350 --> 00:09:16.690
we'll remove capped brood from our colonies and

00:09:16.690 --> 00:09:20.029
that enables us to avoid mite treatments typically

00:09:20.029 --> 00:09:25.389
from From about October until like late May or

00:09:25.389 --> 00:09:27.850
mid May Sometimes it doesn't work as well and

00:09:27.850 --> 00:09:29.710
we'll do a mite treatment in the spring earlier

00:09:29.710 --> 00:09:32.190
in the spring March or April but a lot of times

00:09:32.190 --> 00:09:36.370
we can go about six months without any use of

00:09:36.370 --> 00:09:39.350
any acaricides. And then we will utilize brood

00:09:39.350 --> 00:09:41.690
breaks. If we see a colony that's having mite

00:09:41.690 --> 00:09:45.669
stress, we will do queen -right divides where

00:09:45.669 --> 00:09:49.250
we'll pull the queen into a cavity of her own

00:09:49.250 --> 00:09:51.970
and we keep her overhead so we can keep track

00:09:51.970 --> 00:09:55.409
of her. We'll move the queen along with as little

00:09:55.409 --> 00:09:58.470
open brood as possible into a box of its own

00:09:58.470 --> 00:10:02.440
and move her overhead of the parent colony. leaving

00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:05.120
the colony queenless. Occasionally, of course,

00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:07.059
you're going to get the rearing of new queens

00:10:07.059 --> 00:10:08.559
in that process, but you're also going to get

00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:11.639
a brood break. By the way, if we have some brand

00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:13.980
new beekeepers listening or people just thinking

00:10:13.980 --> 00:10:16.419
about getting into it, I know we're speaking

00:10:16.419 --> 00:10:18.759
a bit of a foreign language today. Bear with

00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:21.919
us, it's worth it. Even if it's helping plant

00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:23.940
a seed of things that you're going to learn more

00:10:23.940 --> 00:10:26.940
about later on in your beekeeping journey. One

00:10:26.940 --> 00:10:29.659
of the things that you mentioned was the term

00:10:29.659 --> 00:10:33.450
the size and shape of the brood chamber. Give

00:10:33.450 --> 00:10:36.710
us an example of what that is in your apiary.

00:10:37.009 --> 00:10:39.029
Well, yeah, when we look at the natural organization

00:10:39.029 --> 00:10:42.049
of a colony, when we study like temperate colonies

00:10:42.049 --> 00:10:45.169
that are dormant in a non -reproductive state,

00:10:45.169 --> 00:10:48.370
you know, they're going to occupy a space inside

00:10:48.370 --> 00:10:51.309
the cavity. That's probably roughly a basketball

00:10:51.309 --> 00:10:55.870
size, 10 and a half inches, 11 inches somewhere

00:10:55.870 --> 00:10:58.269
in there. And then, you know, they're going to

00:10:58.269 --> 00:11:01.629
expand from that shape outward in the springtime.

00:11:01.789 --> 00:11:04.570
Joy and I like to talk about the thermodynamic

00:11:04.570 --> 00:11:08.549
nature of honeybees and how they really utilize

00:11:08.549 --> 00:11:12.009
the heat that they're producing as a super organism

00:11:12.009 --> 00:11:15.029
to do a lot of work for them. First and foremost,

00:11:15.169 --> 00:11:18.529
to incubate their brood. And second of all, to,

00:11:18.529 --> 00:11:22.269
to warm their food supply. So we're very much

00:11:22.269 --> 00:11:24.889
advocates of a temperate organization of a hive

00:11:24.889 --> 00:11:28.529
in a vertical orientation, which allows the nest

00:11:28.529 --> 00:11:32.259
heat to warm the the winter stores that are overhead

00:11:32.259 --> 00:11:35.600
of the colony. We are in agreement with Warray

00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:38.679
that the Layen's hive is a beautiful hive, but

00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:41.519
that they got it wrong in the overall configuration

00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:46.100
of the hive by encouraging the honeybees to put

00:11:46.100 --> 00:11:48.799
their winter stores to the side of the cluster.

00:11:49.419 --> 00:11:53.120
You are reducing the ability of the bees to use

00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:55.379
their nest heat to warm their winter stores.

00:11:56.149 --> 00:11:59.330
So war a was one of the most eloquent people

00:11:59.330 --> 00:12:02.909
to advocate for a vertically oriented colony

00:12:02.909 --> 00:12:05.909
that then allows the nest heat to pre warm the

00:12:05.909 --> 00:12:07.990
honey that that the bees are going to move on

00:12:07.990 --> 00:12:10.629
in a vertical direction as the winter and spring

00:12:10.629 --> 00:12:14.009
goes on. So we're very much advocates of that.

00:12:14.350 --> 00:12:18.429
So while we use a Langstroth format, we are eight

00:12:18.429 --> 00:12:20.909
frame and we're trying to keep our colonies narrow

00:12:20.909 --> 00:12:23.210
and tall. And so backing up to your question

00:12:23.210 --> 00:12:28.190
about brood nest. If we utilize a frame that

00:12:28.190 --> 00:12:30.350
is not only foundationless, but also missing

00:12:30.350 --> 00:12:33.509
its bottom bar, you can grow out brood frames

00:12:33.509 --> 00:12:37.649
that then you can come along with another super

00:12:37.649 --> 00:12:41.129
or a hive body, as we say, and you can nadir

00:12:41.129 --> 00:12:43.549
or you can take that hive body and stick it underneath

00:12:43.549 --> 00:12:46.850
the existing brood nest. And then that encourages

00:12:46.850 --> 00:12:49.970
the bees to draw their brood combs in a downward

00:12:49.970 --> 00:12:52.649
direction. And you can end up with a brood frame

00:12:52.649 --> 00:12:56.149
that in our work, our research, we've come to

00:12:56.149 --> 00:12:58.970
the size of about 13 and a half inches as an

00:12:58.970 --> 00:13:02.549
ideal brood frame. And what that enables is the

00:13:02.549 --> 00:13:05.750
bees to have their brood nest in entirety on

00:13:05.750 --> 00:13:08.830
a frame that is uninterrupted and can encompass

00:13:08.830 --> 00:13:12.269
the entirety of the brood organization, the natural

00:13:12.269 --> 00:13:15.370
organization of brood, where the queen is laying

00:13:15.370 --> 00:13:19.220
her eggs in concentric spirals. in an uninterrupted

00:13:19.220 --> 00:13:21.759
way, and that even allows a little bit of space

00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:25.379
for the peripheral storage of pollen, bee bread

00:13:25.379 --> 00:13:27.940
on the comb, and even a little bit of nectar.

00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.860
We emphasize a little bit of nectar. Our original

00:13:30.860 --> 00:13:33.740
iteration of a hive like that, we used to run

00:13:33.740 --> 00:13:36.360
16 inch frames, and that allowed the bees to

00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:39.220
put a pretty nice two to three inch layer of

00:13:39.220 --> 00:13:43.340
capped honey across the top of that frame. And

00:13:43.340 --> 00:13:46.440
that actually became a hindrance to our style

00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:49.320
of beekeeping, which involves supering for honey

00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:52.220
production. And with that two to three inch band

00:13:52.220 --> 00:13:54.899
of capped honey, sometimes that would actually

00:13:54.899 --> 00:13:58.000
create a hindrance and it deterred the upward

00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:00.279
movement for honey production. And we are commercial

00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:02.799
beekeepers associated with producing food. So

00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:05.679
we want to encourage the bees to produce honey

00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:08.309
in supers. And then, yeah, I just want to add

00:14:08.309 --> 00:14:10.649
to that by saying the other hindrance was just

00:14:10.649 --> 00:14:13.870
it was way too big for our family. Like we have

00:14:13.870 --> 00:14:16.470
three daughters and for me out in the hives,

00:14:16.769 --> 00:14:20.590
like these huge, huge brood nests are way too

00:14:20.590 --> 00:14:23.129
difficult for the beekeeper. And we feel like,

00:14:23.129 --> 00:14:25.250
you know, what's good for the bees is good for

00:14:25.250 --> 00:14:28.429
the beekeeper and vice versa. So I think that

00:14:28.429 --> 00:14:31.980
was one of the main hindrances was just. a workable

00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:35.240
size for all of us. And then the other one is

00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:38.000
just small colonies. Small colonies don't start

00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:41.039
off in that natural basketball size and they

00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:43.259
don't really appreciate all that extra space.

00:14:43.379 --> 00:14:45.860
These are definitely different things that we

00:14:45.860 --> 00:14:48.799
learned along the way. So to be able to start

00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:52.159
them as more of it in a smaller, we use Western

00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:55.539
Shallows box, right? To start them in one box

00:14:55.539 --> 00:14:58.080
that's a Western Shallow. And then when they

00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:00.980
grow, we're actually knee -deering with an empty

00:15:00.980 --> 00:15:04.919
box. So that's how they're gaining some of their

00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:07.600
length. Wow. How long have you been doing this?

00:15:08.299 --> 00:15:12.179
This is our 26th season beekeeping and beekeeping

00:15:12.179 --> 00:15:15.490
together. Congratulations. And how many hives

00:15:15.490 --> 00:15:18.669
do you have on an average year? Well, that number

00:15:18.669 --> 00:15:20.990
does vary. I think at the moment we have about

00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:24.029
650 colonies. I haven't met a beekeeper yet that

00:15:24.029 --> 00:15:26.070
can tell me exactly how many hives they have.

00:15:26.370 --> 00:15:28.789
That's so normal. But when you get up into big

00:15:28.789 --> 00:15:31.470
numbers like that, that's even more so. I think

00:15:31.470 --> 00:15:34.950
we're about 665 if you pressed me. Well, and

00:15:34.950 --> 00:15:38.409
it's just a big range, you know? And it may be

00:15:38.409 --> 00:15:41.470
different tomorrow. That does lead into a tenant

00:15:41.470 --> 00:15:44.139
of natural nest beekeeping for us. as I mentioned,

00:15:44.700 --> 00:15:47.200
our natural queen rearing techniques means that

00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:51.379
we don't cage queens and we never separate queens

00:15:51.379 --> 00:15:53.860
from the family that they were reared in. So

00:15:53.860 --> 00:15:56.940
our practices for hive management are different

00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:59.759
than a typical commercial beekeeper. And because

00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:01.879
of that, our colony count goes up and down a

00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:04.580
lot more than an average commercial beekeeper,

00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:07.519
because we're not rectifying queen problems by

00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:10.620
just depositing a queen in a cage. We're actually

00:16:11.900 --> 00:16:14.460
either encouraging those bees to raise a new

00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:16.799
queen of their own by the transferring of brood

00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:18.539
in the case where they're hopelessly queenless

00:16:18.539 --> 00:16:20.519
and don't have what they need to raise a queen

00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:22.720
then we're going to fix them up with what they

00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:25.419
need to raise a new queen or in the case where

00:16:25.419 --> 00:16:27.179
the colony is already so demoralized and the

00:16:27.179 --> 00:16:29.419
population has plummeted we're going to actually

00:16:29.419 --> 00:16:31.559
introduce a whole starter colony so we're going

00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:34.179
to take a queen you know a nucleus colony where

00:16:34.179 --> 00:16:36.820
the queen is laying already surrounded with her

00:16:36.940 --> 00:16:39.019
her sisters and brood and everything. And we're

00:16:39.019 --> 00:16:41.860
going to introduce that. So, so we're utilizing

00:16:41.860 --> 00:16:44.059
a starter colony the same way someone else might

00:16:44.059 --> 00:16:46.360
use a queen in a cage. So because of that, our

00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:49.139
colony count certainly fluctuates, you know,

00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.000
midsummer. We go up through spring and then we

00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:54.600
hit midsummer and then we start going down. Sure.

00:16:54.860 --> 00:16:56.899
All right. Let's shift gears. Oh, I'm sorry,

00:16:57.080 --> 00:16:59.259
Joy, go ahead. Oh, I was just going to share

00:16:59.259 --> 00:17:02.399
like one really nice thing about our range is

00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.349
we go from Crescent City which is on the coast

00:17:05.349 --> 00:17:08.210
with about 100 inches of rain a year all the

00:17:08.210 --> 00:17:10.829
way over to Ashland. So this is kind of the range

00:17:10.829 --> 00:17:14.430
of our 650 hives where Ashland gets about 17

00:17:14.430 --> 00:17:17.730
inches of rain a year. And we have a lot of just

00:17:17.730 --> 00:17:21.170
really excellent beautiful bee yards. Some of

00:17:21.170 --> 00:17:24.730
our bee yards are like the certified organic

00:17:24.730 --> 00:17:29.509
regenerative farms, herb farm, Oshala farm, Pacific

00:17:29.509 --> 00:17:32.650
botanicals. Like those together are maybe even

00:17:32.809 --> 00:17:36.430
like 500 acres of certified organic regenerative

00:17:36.430 --> 00:17:39.710
medicinal herbs. So we work with some really

00:17:39.710 --> 00:17:44.289
wonderful farms, along with even Alexander Family

00:17:44.289 --> 00:17:47.309
Farm, which is on the coast. And they won National

00:17:47.309 --> 00:17:50.430
Organic Farmer of the Year. Quick break to discuss

00:17:50.430 --> 00:17:53.750
what just might be on your mind right now. Come

00:17:53.750 --> 00:17:56.970
on, admit it. You're imagining the upcoming honey

00:17:56.970 --> 00:17:59.509
harvest. because no matter where you live in

00:17:59.509 --> 00:18:02.130
the world it's either here now or it will be

00:18:02.130 --> 00:18:05.329
in the near future and man lake is making it

00:18:05.329 --> 00:18:08.509
so easy to plan for click on over to man lake's

00:18:08.509 --> 00:18:12.210
website for an amazing selection of extractors

00:18:12.210 --> 00:18:16.650
filters bottling supplies uncapping knives supplies

00:18:16.650 --> 00:18:20.460
for comb honey everything and i mean everything

00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:23.440
you'll need. But if you aren't there quite yet

00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.599
and the honey flows right around the corner,

00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:29.279
make sure you have extra supers on hand. You

00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:32.660
never can have too many or be too prepared. And

00:18:32.660 --> 00:18:35.460
right now Man Lake is offering podcast listeners

00:18:35.460 --> 00:18:41.119
$10 off your next order. Just enter code MLBLove10

00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:44.920
at checkout. That's manlakeltd .com. Discount

00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:50.049
code MLBLove10. And that climb, if you will,

00:18:50.349 --> 00:18:53.329
from east to west also goes from roughly sea

00:18:53.329 --> 00:18:57.450
level to like 2 ,200 feet in elevation. So it's

00:18:57.450 --> 00:19:00.029
nice being mom and pop beekeepers. It's just

00:19:00.029 --> 00:19:02.930
us taking care of this business. And so you can't

00:19:02.930 --> 00:19:05.029
be in two places at once. And we're, we're able

00:19:05.029 --> 00:19:08.990
to sort of manage our job list, our task list

00:19:08.990 --> 00:19:12.619
with regarding to. making honey or tending bees

00:19:12.619 --> 00:19:15.119
or applying my treatments or whatever we're often

00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:18.799
able to prioritize all of our activities on these

00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:23.079
elevational longitudinal climbs so that we can

00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:24.599
always sort of be in the right spot at the right

00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:27.799
time. We can follow the bloom. As long as we're

00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:29.900
on that topic let's talk about your business

00:19:29.900 --> 00:19:31.779
a little bit if you don't mind. Not at all. You

00:19:31.779 --> 00:19:33.940
don't have to give me any specific numbers or

00:19:33.940 --> 00:19:36.579
anything like that that is uncomfortable but

00:19:36.579 --> 00:19:39.319
the majority of the profit from your business

00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:43.740
is it Honey, is it selling bees? Is it? What

00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:46.359
is it? Because I assume you're not going out

00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:49.660
and doing pollination all over the place. Actually,

00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:52.160
to clarify, we still do one pollination event

00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:54.259
in California for the almonds, and that has been

00:19:54.259 --> 00:19:59.440
a big part of financing our creative endeavors.

00:19:59.859 --> 00:20:02.339
As you know, beekeeping, like all forms of farming,

00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:05.799
is Intensive it's equipment intensive. It's it's

00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:08.839
capital intensive and we are not multi -generational

00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:11.220
beekeepers We started we started from nothing

00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:14.539
Yeah, we're first gen and so all of these lofty

00:20:14.539 --> 00:20:17.940
ideas of how we wanted to create a bee business

00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:20.079
We really had to figure out how to capitalize

00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:23.740
them And so we are happy to report that almond

00:20:23.740 --> 00:20:27.019
pollination is well under 50 % of our income

00:20:27.019 --> 00:20:31.740
and currently honey is competing with pollination

00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:35.079
for for taking first place as our primary source

00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.579
of income. And that is our goal is to create

00:20:37.579 --> 00:20:41.579
a diversified business that is primarily concerned

00:20:41.579 --> 00:20:44.200
with B products. And so I'm happy to report B

00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:47.660
products collectively as a category is the majority

00:20:47.660 --> 00:20:51.509
of our income. And those include a candle -making

00:20:51.509 --> 00:20:54.289
business, a whole line of hive medicines that

00:20:54.289 --> 00:20:57.529
we make that involve propolis and honey as a

00:20:57.529 --> 00:21:00.390
solvent for herbal extracts. We make a beverage

00:21:00.390 --> 00:21:02.849
called jun, which is a honey -based kombucha.

00:21:03.569 --> 00:21:06.150
We sell a lot of that, especially at farmers

00:21:06.150 --> 00:21:08.670
markets and events. Yeah, it's a really easy

00:21:08.670 --> 00:21:10.789
way to get people into the booth is giving them

00:21:10.789 --> 00:21:13.430
samples of this jun. They just love it. Does

00:21:13.430 --> 00:21:16.380
it taste better than regular kombucha? which

00:21:16.380 --> 00:21:19.359
I have a hard time with. We convert kombucha

00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:22.400
beverage drinkers on the daily. I'm not kidding.

00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:25.059
I hand out samples at Farmer's Market and I say,

00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:28.140
when they're not familiar with June, I say, are

00:21:28.140 --> 00:21:30.140
you familiar with kombucha? And then they make

00:21:30.140 --> 00:21:32.700
this face. They're like, oh, not for me. And

00:21:32.700 --> 00:21:34.759
I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait. Just try a

00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.900
little tip. Then they are lifetime customers.

00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:40.680
There's something about the taste too, like it's

00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:43.619
really alive. A lot of times it's because we're

00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:46.180
using all these herbs that we even polemate for

00:21:46.180 --> 00:21:49.079
from around here. But just the fact that we are

00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:52.220
adding raw honey to it, they're really, really

00:21:52.220 --> 00:21:55.180
this just like aliveness to it, this activating

00:21:55.180 --> 00:21:57.779
part of it. It tastes great. And really a low

00:21:57.779 --> 00:22:00.400
carbon footprint too. Like when you really think

00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:03.980
about, you know, kombucha and where it's coming

00:22:03.980 --> 00:22:07.480
from, the ingredients are mostly sugar. and glass

00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.799
packaging compared to live honey and probiotics

00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:14.099
with prebiotics because it has honey right out

00:22:14.099 --> 00:22:16.880
of a keg. We pour it as a dispenser and sometimes

00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:19.920
people bring their own cups. Love it. I want

00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:22.319
to shift gears before we run out of time. Oh

00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:25.940
yeah. We have talked about apitherapy a lot on

00:22:25.940 --> 00:22:30.400
this show I'm sure a lot more than other beekeeping

00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:33.700
podcasts and YouTube shows and stuff like that

00:22:33.700 --> 00:22:36.559
But no, that's probably just because it's something

00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.319
that I'm super interested in and so we're gonna

00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:42.700
do a little bit of that but I want to start with

00:22:42.700 --> 00:22:45.680
the integration with that and your beekeeping

00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.660
because as you talked about doing your beekeeping

00:22:48.660 --> 00:22:52.640
as organic as possible I assume that when you

00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.380
talk about medicinal qualities of hive products,

00:22:56.700 --> 00:22:59.660
if it were me and I'm putting something in my

00:22:59.660 --> 00:23:02.740
body or on my body, I want it to be as organic

00:23:02.740 --> 00:23:06.920
as possible. Tell us how you have a good balance

00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:09.400
of those two things or how they work together,

00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:12.200
I should say. Well, I guess first I just want

00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:14.279
to point out what you were saying is just the

00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:18.630
integration and One of our big proponents in

00:23:18.630 --> 00:23:22.089
all of this is sharing with folks that in teaching

00:23:22.089 --> 00:23:24.730
natural beekeeping and apotherapy, I like to

00:23:24.730 --> 00:23:27.049
teach them together because I want people to

00:23:27.049 --> 00:23:30.089
really know and understand that apotherapy is

00:23:30.089 --> 00:23:33.029
a part of beekeeping. and that beekeeping is

00:23:33.029 --> 00:23:37.170
a part of apotherapy itself. Getting to even

00:23:37.170 --> 00:23:39.890
like normalize this a little bit in the beekeeping

00:23:39.890 --> 00:23:42.289
community, I really appreciate that you're bringing

00:23:42.289 --> 00:23:44.829
all this to your podcast because I want more

00:23:44.829 --> 00:23:47.109
and more beekeepers to know that we go back like

00:23:47.109 --> 00:23:51.650
this is 4 ,000 year, 5 ,000 year history of beekeepers

00:23:51.650 --> 00:23:54.950
really integrating that these hive medicines

00:23:54.950 --> 00:23:58.700
are part of our our livelihood, our passions,

00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:01.339
what we're doing on the day to day. Our lifestyle.

00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:03.900
Yeah. And for them to really get to understand

00:24:03.900 --> 00:24:06.339
that this is part of what I think the bees are

00:24:06.339 --> 00:24:09.759
even asking of you. So for us, what are some

00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:13.559
of the ways that we want to be a beekeeper and

00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:17.279
then both be making these medicinal products?

00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:20.420
That would then kind of go right into like natural

00:24:20.420 --> 00:24:23.859
beekeeping. One little example we could I could

00:24:23.859 --> 00:24:27.799
start off by sharing is how we harvest propolis

00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:31.940
So like we would use stainless steel tools. We

00:24:31.940 --> 00:24:35.319
don't use any paint whatsoever in any of our

00:24:35.319 --> 00:24:38.259
boxes That would be something that would be very

00:24:38.259 --> 00:24:41.720
important for any scope of organics And furthermore,

00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:43.859
we don't use we don't use plastic pollen traps

00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:46.319
because we think of propolis as a very strong

00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:48.579
substance We don't want it in contact with plastic

00:24:48.579 --> 00:24:51.960
before it's being made into medicine. So or paint.

00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:54.440
I mean, if it's going to go in your body, sure.

00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:57.740
Yeah, exactly. And just really quick, just so

00:24:57.740 --> 00:24:59.920
that everyone doesn't think that we're purists,

00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.700
as I said at the outset, we set the bar high

00:25:02.700 --> 00:25:06.039
and then we attain it over time. And so every

00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:09.359
one of these goals takes time. Right. So out

00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:12.819
of our we have about 2500 boxes in the operation.

00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:16.519
And I'm pretty sure we still have about 100 painted

00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:21.069
boxes. And so We're not perfect. We're working

00:25:21.069 --> 00:25:23.670
towards it. And so what do we do to mitigate

00:25:23.670 --> 00:25:25.670
those imperfections? Of course, for starters,

00:25:25.829 --> 00:25:29.200
we don't harvest propolis from anywhere. in contact

00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:31.240
with a painted box. We're working towards that.

00:25:31.539 --> 00:25:34.279
We also have a plastic free operation. And yet

00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:36.819
I'm pretty sure out of the 20 ,000 frames in

00:25:36.819 --> 00:25:39.680
our operation that we have a few hundred plastic

00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:42.039
frames in there still. And I could tell the story

00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:44.599
of why, but more importantly, we're, we're trying

00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:46.539
to take those frames out of our hives. We're

00:25:46.539 --> 00:25:49.720
trying to get rid of them, but we're also pragmatic.

00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:52.759
If a frame is covered in a frame of brood, I'm

00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:55.599
not going to. I'm not going to dispose of the

00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:57.940
brood in order to get rid of the plastic. So

00:25:57.940 --> 00:25:59.880
we're moving that plastic to the periphery of

00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:01.880
the boxes. We're moving them up into our supers.

00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:04.259
And when they end up in the honey house, they're

00:26:04.259 --> 00:26:06.359
out of here. We're not perfect. We don't have

00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:09.079
lawyers listening in. You don't need the disclaimers.

00:26:09.470 --> 00:26:11.910
But I like that you mentioned it because a lot

00:26:11.910 --> 00:26:14.509
of us are trying to work towards that. Exactly.

00:26:14.630 --> 00:26:17.069
And it doesn't have to be all or nothing. We

00:26:17.069 --> 00:26:19.490
can work in that direction. And that's exactly

00:26:19.490 --> 00:26:22.529
how do you harvest your propolis? Is it through

00:26:22.529 --> 00:26:25.049
some kind of a trap? Are you scraping it off

00:26:25.049 --> 00:26:27.829
boxes? What are you doing? Stainless tools by

00:26:27.829 --> 00:26:30.410
hand and targeting really only the highest quality

00:26:30.410 --> 00:26:33.349
propolis in the hive. So colonies bring in one

00:26:33.349 --> 00:26:36.410
to 200 grams of propolis a year, typically. And

00:26:36.410 --> 00:26:39.880
when we're doing an average inspection, We might

00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:42.579
get a few grams of propolis out of a colony.

00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:45.460
Sometimes we'll have colonies that are propolis

00:26:45.460 --> 00:26:48.460
hoarders that will get as much as an ounce out

00:26:48.460 --> 00:26:51.640
of them, but that's not common to two to five,

00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:54.579
maybe 10 grams of propolis as much as we might

00:26:54.579 --> 00:26:57.259
harvest. And we're really looking for high resin

00:26:57.259 --> 00:27:00.279
content. So, you know, as, as your listeners

00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:03.299
probably are aware, bees blend propolis with

00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:07.519
wax at varying levels based on their different.

00:27:07.609 --> 00:27:11.049
uses of that propolis and we're really working

00:27:11.049 --> 00:27:14.829
hard to find these high resin propolis's resin

00:27:14.829 --> 00:27:17.670
contents of you know 70 plus percent so fairly

00:27:17.670 --> 00:27:21.410
pure propolis as as you might see it on the corbicula

00:27:21.410 --> 00:27:23.650
of a propolis harvester. Just hand harvesting

00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:25.750
with stainless tools storing it in stainless

00:27:25.750 --> 00:27:29.069
containers and then extracting it in organic

00:27:29.069 --> 00:27:31.140
ethanol. And for those that don't know, when

00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:34.180
we talk apotherapy, we're not just talking about

00:27:34.180 --> 00:27:36.779
bee venom therapy. We're talking about all the

00:27:36.779 --> 00:27:39.799
medicinal things from the hive. That's why propolis

00:27:39.799 --> 00:27:42.980
comes in and pollen and royal jelly and honey

00:27:42.980 --> 00:27:45.240
itself. And I'm sure I'm leaving some things

00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:48.720
out. But I want to ask you real quick, what are

00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:51.299
you doing with propolis? Are you making tinctures

00:27:51.299 --> 00:27:55.359
out of it or stabs or what? All the above. We've

00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:59.470
had a really popular propolis tincture. for quite

00:27:59.470 --> 00:28:03.210
some time and then just this past year we developed

00:28:03.210 --> 00:28:06.650
Problis plus a little bit of honey of a throat

00:28:06.650 --> 00:28:10.049
spray and we have that just kind of original

00:28:10.049 --> 00:28:13.980
and then also with some eucalyptus as well. and

00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:17.519
they are going really just like showstoppers

00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:20.700
at the farmers market. With that, just the spray,

00:28:21.059 --> 00:28:24.160
it makes it just last a really long time. It

00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:29.079
has a cute label. And then we're doing more propolis

00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:33.680
salves as well. Even a propolis enriched honey.

00:28:34.420 --> 00:28:36.920
So for those of you who are making propolis medicine

00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:40.109
with your propolis, I'll just say propolis is

00:28:40.109 --> 00:28:42.829
it not an easy substance to handle and it's not

00:28:42.829 --> 00:28:45.589
a very easy substance to extract so if you look

00:28:45.589 --> 00:28:48.670
at the marketplace there's actually a lot of

00:28:48.670 --> 00:28:50.329
i don't want to be too negative but there's a

00:28:50.329 --> 00:28:53.170
lot of mediocre. Propolis products on the market

00:28:53.170 --> 00:28:55.910
out there or even poor quality propolis products

00:28:55.910 --> 00:28:58.710
that are really sort of riding on the word propolis

00:28:58.710 --> 00:29:00.730
But if you look at the other ingredients you

00:29:00.730 --> 00:29:03.130
look at the methodologies used to make them They're

00:29:03.130 --> 00:29:06.509
not really resulting in a very high concentrated

00:29:06.509 --> 00:29:08.990
level of propolis constituents in the final product

00:29:08.990 --> 00:29:12.700
and that is giving a bad name to propolis because

00:29:12.700 --> 00:29:15.160
then these products don't have the medical effectiveness

00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:17.500
that people might hope or they're not going to

00:29:17.500 --> 00:29:19.500
get the tonic qualities that they want out of

00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:22.039
them. And so I encourage anyone who's making

00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:25.420
propolis to look into the finer chemistry of

00:29:25.420 --> 00:29:28.039
propolis and understand some of the constraints

00:29:28.039 --> 00:29:29.779
of working with it so that you can make a really

00:29:29.779 --> 00:29:31.890
high quality medicine. Or if somebody's just

00:29:31.890 --> 00:29:33.509
buying it, how do they know they're getting a

00:29:33.509 --> 00:29:36.730
good one? For starters, propolis is a very insoluble

00:29:36.730 --> 00:29:40.130
substance, and really most solvents like honey,

00:29:40.250 --> 00:29:43.250
vinegar, water, are really not going to make

00:29:43.250 --> 00:29:46.650
a good propolis extract. I could give a few exceptions

00:29:46.650 --> 00:29:49.230
to that, but basically really the best solvent

00:29:49.230 --> 00:29:53.450
for propolis resin is ethanol, and really it

00:29:53.450 --> 00:29:56.619
even varies quite a lot. by strength of ethanol

00:29:56.619 --> 00:29:59.279
most research would say that you are wasting

00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.859
your time at anything under 140 proof or 70 %

00:30:02.859 --> 00:30:05.579
and I would suggest that that's Still probably

00:30:05.579 --> 00:30:07.819
a little low if you look at products out there.

00:30:07.819 --> 00:30:08.980
You're gonna find a lot of them are not made

00:30:08.980 --> 00:30:11.519
at that concentration So what do you make yours

00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:16.180
out of? 80 % organic ethanol minimum and put

00:30:16.180 --> 00:30:19.980
how much propolis per how much of the alcohol?

00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:24.019
Somewhere between a one to ten and a one to five

00:30:24.019 --> 00:30:27.700
weight weight tincture And then let it sit for

00:30:27.700 --> 00:30:30.279
what two to four weeks Yeah, three three weeks

00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.259
is what we usually aim for you can make a pretty

00:30:33.259 --> 00:30:36.200
good medicine in two weeks But we like to be

00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:38.799
thorough. I want to just interject something

00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:42.200
to sort of answer my own question I think it's

00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:46.619
also like buying honey Get to know your beekeeper

00:30:47.220 --> 00:30:50.259
If you're at a farmer's market and somebody has

00:30:50.259 --> 00:30:53.079
a propolis tincture or something else with propolis,

00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:57.160
great, talk to them. Find out how are the bees

00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:00.160
kept. Ask lots of questions. You're going to

00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:03.339
learn a lot more that way than just reading somebody's

00:31:03.339 --> 00:31:06.480
label online. I also think like the nose knows,

00:31:06.700 --> 00:31:08.759
you know, like if you're able to try it, ours,

00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:11.299
it's, it's actually really obvious. If you try

00:31:11.299 --> 00:31:14.109
ours compared to one of these other ones. you're

00:31:14.109 --> 00:31:16.089
gonna get it, that you're like, ah, this one

00:31:16.089 --> 00:31:18.710
is way better, this is more potent, this is more

00:31:18.710 --> 00:31:21.910
pure. It becomes obvious too, so. All right,

00:31:22.009 --> 00:31:25.190
before we run out of time, Joy, let's talk for

00:31:25.190 --> 00:31:28.190
a minute about B -venom therapy. Wonderful. Because

00:31:28.190 --> 00:31:30.650
it's something that you do and you have clients

00:31:30.650 --> 00:31:33.849
that you help with this. Yeah. Give us an idea,

00:31:34.150 --> 00:31:37.029
what are they coming to you for? So I've had

00:31:37.029 --> 00:31:42.250
a practice, it's been about... 15, 16 years really

00:31:42.250 --> 00:31:45.809
kind of just got started with farm animals, farm

00:31:45.809 --> 00:31:49.829
workers, our family, our kids, through some work

00:31:49.829 --> 00:31:53.150
with them, going to some conferences at the American

00:31:53.150 --> 00:31:56.710
Apotherapies Society and hearing from other apotherapists

00:31:56.710 --> 00:32:00.289
of like how to really just get started of wanting

00:32:00.289 --> 00:32:03.450
to really with just this simple question of just

00:32:03.450 --> 00:32:07.910
wanting to help people. and knowing about the

00:32:07.910 --> 00:32:11.789
products or about BeeVenom and how well it works

00:32:11.789 --> 00:32:15.089
for so many different types of people, I think

00:32:15.089 --> 00:32:17.509
that just kind of compelled me to just start

00:32:17.509 --> 00:32:21.529
trying, right? So, started small of like helping

00:32:21.529 --> 00:32:23.950
people. I mean, arthritis is a really easy one

00:32:23.950 --> 00:32:26.650
to help people with. And then I think through

00:32:26.650 --> 00:32:29.369
all these years, it's just kind of building stories.

00:32:29.910 --> 00:32:33.029
like building people's actual stories of like,

00:32:33.130 --> 00:32:35.569
okay, does this work? Does this not work? Does

00:32:35.569 --> 00:32:37.730
it work for some people? It doesn't work for

00:32:37.730 --> 00:32:40.549
other people. And for me to just be able to share

00:32:40.549 --> 00:32:43.430
like the I statements of like, this is what I've

00:32:43.430 --> 00:32:45.490
seen. This is the story I've helped somebody

00:32:45.490 --> 00:32:48.950
with. It's hard to dispute someone else's story.

00:32:49.259 --> 00:32:52.619
as true or false or why this helps them in such

00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:55.519
significant ways. It really differs for so many

00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:58.579
different people. It's a panacea. I can't even,

00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:01.099
I mean, I really help people in so many different

00:33:01.099 --> 00:33:05.359
ways. I would say arthritis and rheumatoid arthritis.

00:33:05.619 --> 00:33:08.660
Chronic pain is a real big one. I've helped a

00:33:08.660 --> 00:33:13.019
lot of people with Lyme's disease, Parkinson's,

00:33:13.059 --> 00:33:16.640
even preventative Parkinson's. Those would probably

00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:20.500
be some of the big ones, but I also end up working

00:33:20.500 --> 00:33:22.859
with people once I get to know them more and

00:33:22.859 --> 00:33:25.539
they get to know B -venom more, their body becomes

00:33:25.539 --> 00:33:29.220
more adaptive to it. Then we start also working

00:33:29.220 --> 00:33:33.140
on things like chronic fatigue syndrome and depression.

00:33:33.740 --> 00:33:36.059
And sometimes we even work with various like

00:33:36.059 --> 00:33:39.559
meridian or acupuncture points specifically for

00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:43.079
those ailments. Generally in apotherapy or B

00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:45.779
-venom therapy, we're working with either like

00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:48.619
kind of trigger points. or kind of a typical

00:33:48.619 --> 00:33:51.500
like a pain center where you're either like attacking

00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:54.960
the dragon or surrounding the dragon but sometimes

00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:58.200
we kind of also go to some of the like the farther

00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:02.900
reaching points as well cancer yeah cancer as

00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:05.039
well yeah if somebody just wants some general

00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:08.400
information on Hey, I either want to just learn

00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.860
more about it or maybe they're a beekeeper and

00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:13.579
they want to get some full training into it.

00:34:13.579 --> 00:34:15.739
Where should they go? I'm not sure if you're

00:34:15.739 --> 00:34:18.760
aware. We actually started this whole apotherapy

00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:22.420
certification course. We just finished the first

00:34:22.420 --> 00:34:26.760
full cohort. We did it in four months and we

00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:29.619
graduated about 65 students. Eric and I do that

00:34:29.619 --> 00:34:33.380
course together. It's on KJabi, so most of all

00:34:33.380 --> 00:34:36.889
the lessons are all pre -recorded. And it's a

00:34:36.889 --> 00:34:41.989
very extensive, thorough course. So each week

00:34:41.989 --> 00:34:45.650
the students are getting so much information.

00:34:46.010 --> 00:34:47.849
And kind of also what you were sharing about

00:34:47.849 --> 00:34:50.469
like that apotherapy isn't just B -venom therapy.

00:34:50.570 --> 00:34:53.449
We actually do it on purpose that the first half

00:34:53.449 --> 00:34:56.570
of the course is going into all the other products

00:34:56.570 --> 00:34:58.789
of the high -vis medicine because that truly

00:34:58.789 --> 00:35:02.610
is apotherapy. And being an apotherapist is to

00:35:02.610 --> 00:35:06.449
be able to talk. to the clients about integrating

00:35:06.449 --> 00:35:09.010
all these other medicines, not just bee venom

00:35:09.010 --> 00:35:11.789
therapy. So as an apotherapist, I actually take

00:35:11.789 --> 00:35:15.690
that very seriously. And as we get started together,

00:35:15.690 --> 00:35:18.789
it really is about like integrating honey. The

00:35:18.789 --> 00:35:21.429
more you integrate honey, your body's more even

00:35:21.429 --> 00:35:24.010
getting microdoses of the bee venom, but you're

00:35:24.010 --> 00:35:25.849
getting to know bees, you're getting to know

00:35:25.849 --> 00:35:28.650
beekeepers and all of that starts to become part

00:35:28.650 --> 00:35:31.679
of like your healing process. And by the way,

00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:34.980
you guys are at digginliving .com. I'll stick

00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:37.760
that down in the show notes. You had also mentioned

00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.960
earlier the American Apotherapy. Is it association

00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:44.599
or society? Society. Society. There's a global

00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:47.599
organization as well. I'm on the International

00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:51.739
Federation of Apotherapists, which is that international

00:35:51.739 --> 00:35:55.460
board where Dr. Steffen is the head president

00:35:55.460 --> 00:35:58.480
of that board and I enjoy working with him and

00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:01.559
all the other. It's a wonderful board. And then

00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:05.519
I am the chair, the coordinator of the Medicinal

00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:09.000
Beekeeping Commission on the International Federation

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:12.679
of Apotherapy. And then I authored the guidelines

00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:16.739
in that way as well. Fantastic. All right. We've

00:36:16.739 --> 00:36:18.440
got a couple of minutes left. I want to hear

00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:21.639
a fun, wild and crazy beekeeping story or two

00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:25.150
from you guys. This just goes way back, but it

00:36:25.150 --> 00:36:27.829
does seem to be kind of wild and crazy in that

00:36:27.829 --> 00:36:30.869
when we first came from mid -state Corvallis

00:36:30.869 --> 00:36:33.150
area and we moved down to southern Oregon, our

00:36:33.150 --> 00:36:36.050
beekeeping business was growing. We were already

00:36:36.050 --> 00:36:39.489
like organic eaters, organic farmers, and so

00:36:39.489 --> 00:36:43.070
we wanted to become organic beekeepers. And so

00:36:43.070 --> 00:36:45.949
we showed up at that local meeting and we told

00:36:45.949 --> 00:36:48.699
these guys which was like a bunch of really,

00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:51.960
really a lot older gentlemen. And it was like

00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:54.380
a dark room. I don't know. It should have been

00:36:54.380 --> 00:36:57.579
full of smoke. It was just. Yeah. And I was like,

00:36:57.659 --> 00:37:00.099
had my little baby. I was like nursing my my

00:37:00.099 --> 00:37:03.179
oldest daughter is now 22. I remember just telling

00:37:03.179 --> 00:37:06.500
them that we're we're organic beekeepers. And

00:37:06.500 --> 00:37:09.460
there was like arms flying. They're like, that's

00:37:09.460 --> 00:37:11.760
not possible. That's not possible. You can't

00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:14.340
do that. And so I guess that is just my wild

00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:16.719
and crazy story to just tell you it is possible.

00:37:17.019 --> 00:37:19.900
You can do it. I love people that stir the pot.

00:37:19.980 --> 00:37:23.280
That's awesome. All right, Eric. OK, I was thinking

00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:25.219
about it. I'll just go with the one that popped

00:37:25.219 --> 00:37:29.119
into my head. There was this time that we were.

00:37:29.369 --> 00:37:31.550
Just just had just moved to southern oregon.

00:37:31.650 --> 00:37:34.170
Maybe had been there a couple years And so we

00:37:34.170 --> 00:37:36.329
were still hungry enough for bee colonies that

00:37:36.329 --> 00:37:39.489
losing swarms just really bothered me So I saw

00:37:39.489 --> 00:37:42.469
a swarm had gone up into this young alder tree

00:37:42.469 --> 00:37:47.570
about 35 40 feet up and And I had a witness for

00:37:47.570 --> 00:37:50.210
this I walked out there and the alder was only

00:37:50.210 --> 00:37:52.349
about this big and it was kind of Getting shaded

00:37:52.349 --> 00:37:54.650
out by these bigger cottonwoods. And so I decided

00:37:54.650 --> 00:37:58.440
you know what? I'm gonna cut it down And so I

00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:01.539
took a Rubbermaid tote and I walked out to the

00:38:01.539 --> 00:38:03.920
base of the tree and I looked up at how far it

00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:06.559
was, guessed how high it was. And then I just

00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:09.739
paced out into this meadow, set the Rubbermaid

00:38:09.739 --> 00:38:12.400
down, walked over with my chainsaw and dropped

00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:16.900
the Alder and it got perfect direct hit. It landed

00:38:16.900 --> 00:38:21.260
the cluster. The swarm went right into the Rubbermaid.

00:38:21.340 --> 00:38:23.739
We're gonna watch this happen. We're actually

00:38:23.739 --> 00:38:30.079
hillbilly hippies and I got I Got the swarm to

00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:32.440
land perfectly in the Rubbermaid ran over put

00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:35.079
a lid on it and that that is where the good news

00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:38.980
ends because I did take the high I was very Imagine

00:38:38.980 --> 00:38:41.820
I was very proud of myself and I caught the swarm

00:38:41.820 --> 00:38:45.420
and I deposited them in a hive and Then came

00:38:45.420 --> 00:38:47.159
and checked on them the following morning and

00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:49.920
they had absconded. They were done with me. They

00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.539
were not gonna put up with being dropped 40 feet

00:38:52.539 --> 00:38:55.300
out of a hive. But I will say, I think that's

00:38:55.300 --> 00:38:57.920
probably one out of only maybe a couple hives

00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:01.739
that's ever absconded on us in 26 years. So that

00:39:01.739 --> 00:39:05.139
is incredible that you can look at it, guess

00:39:05.139 --> 00:39:08.019
the height, step it out and have it hit. And

00:39:08.019 --> 00:39:10.019
I'm going to tease you with one last thing. And

00:39:10.019 --> 00:39:12.440
that is far as I know, those rubber made containers

00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:19.070
are made out of plastic. Nice. It's true. You

00:39:19.070 --> 00:39:21.050
know what? We have a couple other pieces of plastic

00:39:21.050 --> 00:39:23.510
in the operation and I will not rest until we

00:39:23.510 --> 00:39:26.130
get rid of them. All right. Hey, it's been fun,

00:39:26.210 --> 00:39:28.369
you guys. We are going to do it again sometime

00:39:28.369 --> 00:39:31.889
in the not too distant future. That's Joy and

00:39:31.889 --> 00:39:34.050
Eric McHugh. And thanks for being with me today.

00:39:34.369 --> 00:39:39.489
Yeah, great to be here. Thank you. Thanks again

00:39:39.489 --> 00:39:42.030
for joining us on Be Love, Be Keeping presented

00:39:42.030 --> 00:39:45.170
by Man Lake. Another big thank you goes to Vita

00:39:45.170 --> 00:39:48.389
B Health for their support. Vita's Varroa Control

00:39:48.389 --> 00:39:51.989
Ranger products includes Epistan, Epigard, and

00:39:51.989 --> 00:39:56.190
now Varroxan Extended Release Oxalic Acid Strips.

00:39:56.469 --> 00:39:58.730
Hey thanks a lot guys. And if you haven't yet,

00:39:59.030 --> 00:40:01.349
please subscribe to and follow the show, tell

00:40:01.349 --> 00:40:04.110
your friends about it, and click on over to BeLoveBeKeeping

00:40:04.110 --> 00:40:07.809
.com to sign up for our free newsletter. If you

00:40:07.809 --> 00:40:10.710
have a guest suggestion, or topic you'd like

00:40:10.710 --> 00:40:13.510
discussed on the show, shoot me an email, eric

00:40:13.510 --> 00:40:16.389
at be love beekeeping dot com. And remember,

00:40:16.489 --> 00:40:19.070
if you're not just in it for the honey or the

00:40:19.070 --> 00:40:21.690
money, you're in it for the love. See you next

00:40:21.690 --> 00:40:22.070
week.