Secrets of Sustainable Beekeeping - With Beekeeper Michael Scott

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in a world brimming with complexity few creatures

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embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless

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precision she dances from bloom to bloom each

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motion guided by millennia upon millennia of

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instinct each act in service to the whole and

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then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards

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of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,

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part poet, they move along their hives with the

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efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to

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the bees' needs as best they can comprehend,

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and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the

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Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing

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like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their

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journey. Well, this is going to be totally different

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today. By the way, welcome, welcome to Be Love

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Beekeeping. Normally we start off in the studio,

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today we're outside. Our show today is going

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to focus on the concept of sustainability and

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beekeeping. And one of the points of that is

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not having to buy bees. For a lot of people,

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we're doing splits, we're catching swarms, we're

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doing swarm removals, we're doing all kinds of

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things. And I just wanted to tell you about here

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in my woodshed, I keep equipment. over the winter

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when there's extra room and there's just various

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parts and pieces in there and I clean those up

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and use them from time to time. And one of the

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things that I pulled out was a swarm trap that

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I made just a few years ago and I cleaned it

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all out, got it beautiful and pristine inside,

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put some frames inside that had some drawn out

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comb, put some lemongrass oil in, made it just

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all perfect. I hung this thing on the perfect

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spot on the chicken coop and it's, oh by the

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way, hi chickens, on the chicken coop and it

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is ready to go and it gets morning sun and there's

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not a single bee looking at it. Oh well, they

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don't come. Let's go back to the wood shed because

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I had a little surprise yesterday. I have another

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swarm trap just like that that I didn't clean

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up. The lid on it's broken. It has old gross

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comb inside and I didn't do anything to make

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it nice. I didn't bait it. I didn't hang it up

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eight feet in the air or anything like that.

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It's just in this woodshed and yesterday I came

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out here and I saw some bees flying around. I'm

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like what's going on? So I got closer and this

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old swarm trap that was just on the floor has

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bees going in and out. No swarm commander, no

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lemongrass oil, no nothing. It's falling apart

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and let's just take off the lid and see if anything's

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going on in here. Uh yeah. So sometimes bees

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surprise us. They don't do things the way that

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we ask them to do, but we get some fun surprises.

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So yeah sure enough a whole swarm moved in there

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and um and they're just having a good old time

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in this old woodshed. making a new home. So that's

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all part of sustainability, and it's all part

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of the fun. I love when they surprise us. When

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we think we're doing everything right, they'll

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say, oh, you silly beekeeper, just let us do

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what we want. I'd like to welcome to the show

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today, Michael Scott, who's coming to us from

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Indiana, Pennsylvania. That sounds like two states

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in a row. What's going on there, Michael? It's

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just meant to confuse people, but it's pretty

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effective. You are some kind of an expert on

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sustainability with beekeeping, and that's going

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to be our main topic today. I did have one quick

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question before we jump in. I was just looking

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at your website and I'm seeing honey that you

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have for sale. that on one end it is a super,

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super light amber color, and then you also have

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some very, very dark honey. Tell me about those.

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What are your bees foraging on that's making

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the differences? Typically what we'll have with

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the really light honey, like I have three different

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bee yards that can give something that's really

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light but Apple would be some of them and I don't

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get much of that because I have an Apple orchard

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and you know we've we just lost all of the blossoms

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this year because of the cold snap. I have another

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bee yard that has linden trees and has 150 linden

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trees and that's a nice light yellow color and

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if I can time things right where like that one

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comes into bloom just about the summer solstice

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and that's also the time that the second swarms

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come in so it's one of those words hit and miss.

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But the really big one would be tulip poplar.

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And tulip poplar trees, when they go into bloom,

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the flower you can actually take the flower and

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do this and shake it and nectar will come out

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on the ground. And that is our like biggest flow

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of the season. And that one's the same light

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golden color. It has kind of a citrusy flavor

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to it too. It's part of the magnolia family.

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But it is a really good tasting honey. And you

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know, having that light colored people aren't

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used to seeing that they're used to seeing the

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just the mid row cloven. When does that come

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on? When does that flow? That's the tool of poplar.

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And that happens pretty much at the end of June.

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You'll have that happening somewhere around June

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15th. And that's like During that time, the colonies

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are just building up like crazy. They can bring

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in so much nectar, it's unreal. I've noticed

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that something that's happened recently is that

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some of my bigger colonies will get honey bound.

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And instead of doing what beekeepers were told

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to do, where you expand, I just let them kind

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of... Get honey bound and do that with sustainable

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beekeeping You're looking at brood breaks is

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one of the things that helps control the mite

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problem and getting bees to have better winter

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survival So these large colonies are getting

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honey bound. It's giving them a long brood break

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during what would be like a dearth I mean, we

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don't I don't think we have a dearth But we have

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a time where it slows down and it's where you're

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that in between period of trees and shrubs into

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the weeds But when they get honey -bound like

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that, they just basically shut down. During that

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time, they render the nectar into honey, and

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then they're right on track for the fall flow.

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They have a long brood break, and I have some

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hives that have been, well, this is the fourth

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year that they haven't swarmed on me, and they've

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just done that from being honey -bound. So before

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we get off this topic, there was the really dark

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-colored honey. When is that and what's that

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from? That's knotweed. Knotweed is a, it looks

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like a bamboo. It grows along stream banks for

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the most part. It is a really sweet honey, does

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not crystallize. And it's in late August, early

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September, but it is one of the other big flows

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that we have. And, you know, even though it's

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an invasive plant, If we didn't have that, I

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don't know how well our bees would do because

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that is one of the best honeys that they can

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get. Not weeding in itself is a medicinal plant

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and you know you have to wonder if some of that

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medicinal property doesn't transfer over into

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the honey and the nectar. I know in our cabinet

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where my wife keeps a million and one supplements

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of every variety. Japanese knotweed is one of

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them in there. I've seen it. So I believe you

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on that. Anyway, you had mentioned something

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about brood breaks. Let's get back to sustainability.

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When I hear brood breaks for varroa control,

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I think of treatment free beekeeping. So if you'd

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give us just a minute about quote, sustainable

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beekeeping, and then how does that relate to

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treatment free and other types of beekeeping?

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Let's start there. When it comes to sustainable

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beekeeping, I think you have to look at it from,

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most people think of it just simply as they don't

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have to buy bees. And by definition, that would

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be accurate, but that's for the individual. And

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if you look at, for the individual, you could

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have sustainable beekeeping and still be treating

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your bees but you're reaching your goal by not

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having to buy new bees and it still fits the

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definition. But then you can take it to the other

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level where it's that you're not just thinking

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about yourself you're thinking about the bees

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and everything around you. So my definition of

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sustainable beekeeping would be that in the long

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term your relationship with the bees is better

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for your bees and the bees that are surrounding

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you, especially the feral bee population, then

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it would be if they didn't have that relationship

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with you. And that's when you're getting into

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what I think real sustainable beekeeping is.

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Now, treatment -free beekeeping is one of those

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things where by definition, if you decide to

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do nothing, that is your decision on what treatment

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you're going to give your bees. That really can't

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be treatment free because you're making that

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decision to do it or not. But real treatment

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free would be, in a sense, sustainable beekeeping,

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where you've got the area doing so well that

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you don't have to make a decision to treat or

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not. It's that everything is working the way

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it's supposed to work, the way that nature kind

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of intended it. And in that, you don't have to

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treat, you don't have to even think about treating.

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So I know a little bit about the term sustainable

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farming and that concept, which to my understanding,

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and I probably am not going to abbreviate this

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very well, but the general idea is you have cows

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grazing here and they're depositing waste there,

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which is fertilizer and everything is, you know,

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it makes it so you don't need to use a lot of

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chemicals and a lot of fertilizer. And it's just

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sort of animals and the land. interacting how

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they're supposed to, how Mother Nature intended.

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Right. Is that sort of what we're talking about

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with sustainable beekeeping? In some ways with

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the cattle, what they do now is it's called paddock

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farming. And what they're doing is they're setting

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up different small areas. and the cows will go

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into that area graze it to the point where they're

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not just eating the things they like they're

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eating everything and then they move them to

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the next paddock because in the wild in natural

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circumstances they would have really large herds

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that would go into the area eat everything and

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move on and in that they would like deposit the

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manure and it would just keep like recycling

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that would be the sustainability of it all with

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beekeeping It's more or less where you kind of

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have to like you can't really have sustainable

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beekeeping when you don't have everybody on board

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with the idea. So where I have isolated yards,

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I do really well. I have one yard that just lost

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its first colony in four years and I keep somewhere

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around eight to nine colonies there every year.

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That's without doing any kind of chemical treatments.

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I actually stopped doing any of the bird breaks

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that I was forcing, you know, by getting rid

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of the queen or doing splits, I was just letting

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them propagate the area. But in that kind of

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situation, you're not introducing new genetics

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that aren't really from the area. You're not

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introducing viruses and bacterias that, you know,

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like you'll have from commercial yards where

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they basically can keep the bees alive with those

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problems and then sort of spread them throughout.

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the country every spring whenever people are

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buying bees. So what I look at with the sustainable

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beekeeping is that you can only really do it

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if you're isolated or you get everybody in your

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area to do the same kind of things that you're

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doing and to look at it as the bigger picture,

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not just that these are my bees and I need my

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bees to live. It's more of you want all the bees

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in the area to do well. What else is there to

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it that we should know? I mean I'm thinking like

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feeding for example. If it's sustainable I shouldn't

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be buying sugar and feeding them right? Yeah

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that's one of those things where too if you need

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to feed them that means that the feral bee population

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isn't being taken care of in the same way that

00:13:34.350 --> 00:13:35.970
your bees are being taken care of. It means that

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you're over the threshold of what the area can

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support. I mean I was looking at some of the

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posts last year or the year before we had a a

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kind of dry summer and there were people that

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were complaining about how there was no nectar

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flow in the fall and you know weeds pretty much

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produce nectar all the time even though we had

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a drought they're still going to be able to do

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that because they have really deep root systems

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but then the one person I remember them posting

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a video of their bee yard and they had 50 colonies

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there and it wasn't that that was a dry summer

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I mean maybe that contributed a little bit to

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it but It was that they had 50 colonies. They

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did. But what about the bees that are around?

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Because I think there's a lot more feral population

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than people know. And so you have those 50 and

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you might have another like 10 or 15 more. So

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you have to look at this from a perspective of

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every area has a trajectory and every area has

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a threshold. And you need to be keeping your

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bees on that trajectory. where they're ready

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for the different flows and they have that downtime

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in the middle of the summer where if they don't

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have any brood to raise they don't use up the

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resources. So they can do it with much less honey

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going into winter like you know having to bring

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in more and you don't have to feed. The other

00:15:00.070 --> 00:15:03.340
thing about feeding is that Whenever you do it,

00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:05.519
it's going to affect the gut microbiome of the

00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:09.159
honeybee. So are you really doing something that's

00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:12.139
good for the bees and trying to prepare them

00:15:12.139 --> 00:15:14.679
for winter with having more winter stores? Or

00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:17.879
are you doing more harm by creating a problem

00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.059
with their gut microbiome, which is part of their

00:15:20.059 --> 00:15:22.460
immune system, right before they go into winter?

00:15:23.019 --> 00:15:25.960
I guess another factor too with the feeding aspect

00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:30.620
is that have colonies that are in my swarm boxes

00:15:30.620 --> 00:15:32.820
and that's I catch them in those I keep them

00:15:32.820 --> 00:15:35.840
in those for that first year but these are deep

00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:39.000
narrow boxes and they get sunlight on all through

00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:42.259
like on the three sides of the box so the Sun

00:15:42.259 --> 00:15:45.200
is kind of aiding in the process just like it

00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:48.789
would in a tree But those colonies are only using

00:15:48.789 --> 00:15:51.509
about 6 to 10 pounds of honey over the winter

00:15:51.509 --> 00:15:54.669
because it's a more efficient system. So when

00:15:54.669 --> 00:15:56.990
you have people who are using Langstroth boxes

00:15:56.990 --> 00:16:00.279
still using ventilation, They are trying to get

00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:03.440
that 150 pounds of honey that they were told

00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:05.940
to get, not realizing they created a thermal

00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:09.519
mass in there that's going to get just as cold

00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:12.340
inside as it is outside because of the ventilation.

00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:14.899
Their bees are going to have to work harder to

00:16:14.899 --> 00:16:18.059
stay warm, and they're going to use up more honey,

00:16:18.139 --> 00:16:19.879
but at the same time, they're going to use up

00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:22.559
more of their lifespan, and they have less chance

00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.399
of making it through winter. If you do things

00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:29.879
in a way where it's more efficient, like the

00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:32.820
bees are living in nature, there's not that much

00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:36.179
need for feeding because they aren't really going

00:16:36.179 --> 00:16:38.639
to need to use that much honey. And they'll come

00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:41.700
out of winter with plenty of extra honey to get

00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:44.659
started for the next year. I feel like I'm so

00:16:44.659 --> 00:16:50.080
messed up. I don't know. How am I doing everything

00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.539
wrong? Now, I don't feed my bees in the fall.

00:16:52.580 --> 00:16:55.460
I leave them lots of honey. But in the spring,

00:16:55.460 --> 00:16:58.200
I get paranoid. Oh, no, are they going to starve

00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:01.059
now that it's spring? And I tend to feed them

00:17:01.059 --> 00:17:04.339
then. But I also look, get a little feel for

00:17:04.339 --> 00:17:06.680
the weight. If you've got a ton of honey, I'm

00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:08.559
not going to feed you. Why would I feed you?

00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:11.720
And people do anyway. And they do anyway. And

00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:14.740
they know that they have it and they know that

00:17:14.740 --> 00:17:17.700
it doesn't make sense. But You know, it's like

00:17:17.700 --> 00:17:19.920
Mark Twain said, it's easier to fool somebody

00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:22.779
than to convince them they've been fooled. And

00:17:22.779 --> 00:17:25.819
so once you get something established, getting

00:17:25.819 --> 00:17:30.039
them to like forget what they learned to learn

00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:33.119
what they should have in the first place, it's

00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:36.759
very difficult. There are so many different philosophies

00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:40.079
on beekeeping. They're just the whole thing about

00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:43.859
ask 10 beekeepers, get 11 answers. It is so much

00:17:43.859 --> 00:17:49.000
worse than that. It just is way beyond. What

00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:52.279
people don't realize is that if you ask 10 beekeepers

00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:55.119
a question you get like 11 or 12 different answers.

00:17:55.779 --> 00:17:57.559
Most of those answers are probably going to be

00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:00.680
wrong. Quick break to discuss what just might

00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:04.130
be on your mind. Right now come on admit it.

00:18:04.150 --> 00:18:07.809
You're imagining the upcoming honey harvest because

00:18:07.809 --> 00:18:09.809
no matter where you live in the world It's either

00:18:09.809 --> 00:18:13.210
here now or it will be in the near future and

00:18:13.210 --> 00:18:16.750
Man Lake is making it so easy to plan for Click

00:18:16.750 --> 00:18:19.769
on over to Man Lake's website for an amazing

00:18:19.769 --> 00:18:24.009
selection of extractors filters bottling supplies

00:18:24.009 --> 00:18:28.170
uncapping knives supplies for a comb, honey everything

00:18:28.170 --> 00:18:31.509
and I mean everything you'll need. But if you

00:18:31.509 --> 00:18:33.970
aren't there quite yet and the honey flow is

00:18:33.970 --> 00:18:36.930
right around the corner, make sure you have extra

00:18:36.930 --> 00:18:40.430
supers on hand. You never can have too many or

00:18:40.430 --> 00:18:43.589
be too prepared. And right now Man Lake is offering

00:18:43.589 --> 00:18:48.170
podcast listeners $10 off your next order. Just

00:18:48.170 --> 00:18:52.890
enter code MLBlove10 at checkout. That's manlakeltd

00:18:52.890 --> 00:18:59.200
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00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:02.619
thing that you really have to get into your brain

00:19:02.619 --> 00:19:06.180
that yes there are different ways of doing things

00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:08.539
but does that mean that it's the best way I mean

00:19:08.539 --> 00:19:12.259
in anything there's only going to be one best

00:19:12.259 --> 00:19:14.980
way and that best way is going to be most effective,

00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:18.920
efficient, successful but there are other ways

00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:20.859
that you can do it that aren't going to be as

00:19:20.859 --> 00:19:26.119
good but A lot of people attach to an idea. They

00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:29.920
join a tribe of beekeepers and whatever the adjective

00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:33.119
is that they use, that's their tribe. And a lot

00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.000
of those tribal things, they don't really want

00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:38.819
you to talk about anything that's outside of

00:19:38.819 --> 00:19:42.519
the tribe. And whenever they get you really indoctrinated,

00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:48.119
you're going to defend that to your death. because

00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:50.880
you just don't want to let go of it. It's become

00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:53.460
part of your identity. And I think people need

00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:55.660
to kind of let go of the identity and start putting

00:19:55.660 --> 00:19:59.920
the bees, the population around them, and the

00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:03.980
whole country basically is the goal. You want

00:20:03.980 --> 00:20:07.420
that to be doing great, not just you doing great

00:20:07.420 --> 00:20:10.779
or you being acknowledged in your group. And

00:20:10.779 --> 00:20:14.700
what works for you in Pennsylvania may not work

00:20:14.700 --> 00:20:19.200
for Mary in Florida. Probably won't in fact.

00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:21.740
I have different mic different climates five

00:20:21.740 --> 00:20:25.980
miles apart Like where I am here is going to

00:20:25.980 --> 00:20:30.599
be ten Maybe fifteen degrees warmer on the cold

00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:32.799
winter nights than it is five miles away from

00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:36.180
me So, you know each area is going to take a

00:20:36.180 --> 00:20:38.559
little bit of a different turn. It's going to

00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:41.920
Have the the trees going into bloom at different

00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.960
times So yeah, I mean it's like what happens

00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:47.099
in pennsylvania isn't going to be the same in

00:20:47.099 --> 00:20:50.279
north carolina Definitely not in florida But

00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:53.519
as I said earlier every area has its own trajectory

00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:56.000
and you have to learn what the trajectory is

00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:58.799
in your area Now if I can kind of jump on this

00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:02.660
soap box with you I want to mention when we were

00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:05.980
formulating this podcast one of the names that

00:21:05.980 --> 00:21:10.500
we were looking at was intuitive beekeeping because

00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:14.579
I'm a big believer on just all these things you've

00:21:14.579 --> 00:21:18.720
just said how do I know which one to pick which

00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:20.839
one is going to make sense for me and my bees

00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:24.819
and somehow we have to get in tune with our bees

00:21:24.819 --> 00:21:29.740
enough to be able to feel or communicate or in

00:21:29.740 --> 00:21:33.819
somehow intuitively know this philosophy is going

00:21:33.819 --> 00:21:37.460
to work for these bees here. Yeah, that's like

00:21:37.460 --> 00:21:39.380
when I was talking about with the bees getting

00:21:39.380 --> 00:21:42.440
honey bound. And, you know, I was using my intuitive

00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:45.299
sense on that, that they might know what they're

00:21:45.299 --> 00:21:48.039
doing. I'm not going to expand the space because

00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:51.220
in the past, I'd expanded before only to find

00:21:51.220 --> 00:21:54.099
out that all they were going to do is put on

00:21:54.099 --> 00:21:57.819
more nectar. They weren't going to like. Most

00:21:57.819 --> 00:21:59.880
beekeepers are putting in more space so they'll

00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:03.000
raise brood, but they don't, they don't, they're

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:05.519
not thinking that way. And just kind of trusting

00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:08.039
my instincts on it that what are they going to

00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.240
teach me here? Like, what is it that I'm, I've

00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:13.640
been missing? And you go by the logic or the

00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:16.690
beekeeping aspect. It's like, the other day somebody

00:22:16.690 --> 00:22:18.890
came up here they just showed up out of the blue

00:22:18.890 --> 00:22:20.410
it's like are you the beekeeper and i'm like

00:22:20.410 --> 00:22:22.509
yeah and she said well you know i thought i'd

00:22:22.509 --> 00:22:25.470
take a ride up and she's from 50 miles away and

00:22:25.470 --> 00:22:27.490
she had told me that she wants to get into beekeeping

00:22:27.490 --> 00:22:30.529
and she got certified and and i was like well

00:22:30.529 --> 00:22:32.809
that's that's great but all you learned about

00:22:32.809 --> 00:22:34.730
was beekeeping you didn't learn anything about

00:22:34.730 --> 00:22:37.349
bees and now you're going to have to learn about

00:22:37.349 --> 00:22:39.130
the bees and the best way to learn about the

00:22:39.130 --> 00:22:42.079
bees is to let them teach you Yeah, love it.

00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:43.759
Alright, the other day when we were chatting,

00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:47.039
you used the term, and I wrote it down, ethical

00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:49.880
beekeeping. What is that and how does it fit

00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:51.779
into all the things we've just talked about?

00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:56.119
Well, I think that we have to start taking more

00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:59.140
responsibility for our bees. Not just in that

00:22:59.140 --> 00:23:01.440
idea that you have to keep them alive, because

00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.819
in keeping them alive, you might be hurting the

00:23:04.819 --> 00:23:07.480
rest of the bee population around you. So...

00:23:07.549 --> 00:23:09.549
You know, that colony that wouldn't have been

00:23:09.549 --> 00:23:12.730
able to survive winter is now survived winter

00:23:12.730 --> 00:23:17.589
because you put your individual ideas first and

00:23:17.589 --> 00:23:21.369
you didn't put the area in that decision making

00:23:21.369 --> 00:23:24.890
process. But the next year then you'll have weak

00:23:24.890 --> 00:23:27.710
genetics that are now going to be breeding with

00:23:27.710 --> 00:23:31.000
the new queens. that would never have had that

00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:34.099
chance. It's like this winter we had a really

00:23:34.099 --> 00:23:37.539
really bad winter and I mean we had a long time

00:23:37.539 --> 00:23:40.200
with really cold and it took out a lot of the

00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:42.740
bee population but it took out the weak bees

00:23:42.740 --> 00:23:46.640
and that in a really strange sense is kind of

00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:49.539
like a gift from nature. Most people won't look

00:23:49.539 --> 00:23:53.240
at it that way but it made it to where the viruses

00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:56.220
and bacterias that were there that were going

00:23:56.220 --> 00:23:59.119
to contribute to the deaths of the bees died

00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:02.440
off with the bees. And if we would have just

00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:05.599
left it alone at that and let the bees rebuild

00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:08.680
with the bees that were left and not bring bees

00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:11.960
in, we wouldn't be bringing in bad genetics that

00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:14.000
couldn't survive the area. We wouldn't be bringing

00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:17.599
in the viruses and bacteria. And where we would

00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:19.640
have had this gift and we would have had better

00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:23.059
bees because of the process. Instead, we had

00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:26.099
lot of people getting bees from out of the area

00:24:26.099 --> 00:24:28.900
from commercial yards more so than they would

00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:32.400
in normal years and Instead of things getting

00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:36.400
way better. It's going to like Take a hit it's

00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:39.579
gonna make it worse. So we have to look at it

00:24:39.579 --> 00:24:43.539
from an ethical standpoint. That's Looking at

00:24:43.539 --> 00:24:46.700
nature and nature doesn't really have the same

00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:49.039
kind of discernment. We have it's looking at

00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:51.819
survival of the fittest It's not survival of

00:24:51.819 --> 00:24:55.039
my bees If I could just interject something on

00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:58.220
the ethics and this is me personally. Everybody

00:24:58.220 --> 00:25:02.640
has their own set of morals and ethics and one

00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:04.980
of the things that I read when I was first into

00:25:04.980 --> 00:25:10.539
beekeeping 12 years ago, it was a book that was

00:25:10.539 --> 00:25:13.700
put out by a university and I won't name their

00:25:13.700 --> 00:25:17.480
name but they're in the upper Midwest and their

00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:21.549
recommendation was in the fall take 100 % of

00:25:21.549 --> 00:25:23.910
the honey and just let your bees die because

00:25:23.910 --> 00:25:25.990
they're probably going to die over winter anyway

00:25:25.990 --> 00:25:29.529
and next spring buy a new package of bees. That

00:25:29.529 --> 00:25:32.690
just didn't ring right with me personally, with

00:25:32.690 --> 00:25:36.910
my personal beliefs of how to do things. I want

00:25:36.910 --> 00:25:40.250
to at least try to help them get through winter.

00:25:40.529 --> 00:25:42.349
I don't know if that figures in your ethics,

00:25:42.490 --> 00:25:45.089
what do you think of that? Well, I mean if you

00:25:45.089 --> 00:25:48.130
look back before the removable frames that's

00:25:48.130 --> 00:25:51.329
what they were doing then too You know that poem

00:25:51.329 --> 00:25:54.329
a swarm in May is worth a load of hay a swarm

00:25:54.329 --> 00:25:56.890
in June It was worth a silver spoon the swarm

00:25:56.890 --> 00:26:00.190
in July is worth it isn't worth a fly You know,

00:26:00.250 --> 00:26:04.369
that was I think a 17th century poem That was

00:26:04.369 --> 00:26:07.430
about how they did beekeeping at that time. They

00:26:07.430 --> 00:26:10.599
had them in skeps and in the fall they would

00:26:10.599 --> 00:26:12.819
kill them with sulfur by burning it in front

00:26:12.819 --> 00:26:15.240
of the hive and they would harvest all the honey

00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:17.700
and then in the spring they would let swarms

00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:21.480
come in and the swarm in May would produce honey.

00:26:21.900 --> 00:26:24.000
Swarm in June would still produce some honey

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:26.720
but a swarm that they got in July wouldn't. And

00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:29.099
people are still using that poem today thinking

00:26:29.099 --> 00:26:31.940
that a swarm in July is bad but we're in a completely

00:26:31.940 --> 00:26:34.740
different set of circumstances now. I can get

00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:38.240
a swarm in July and get them to survive winter.

00:26:38.980 --> 00:26:42.480
And if it's a colony that looks like they're

00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:45.480
not going to make it, sometimes they really surprise

00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:48.200
you. And it was just because their trajectory

00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:51.539
was off and you as the beekeeper kind of take

00:26:51.539 --> 00:26:53.960
that ethical responsibility to learn the trajectory

00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:56.240
of your area and get them back on the right trajectory

00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:58.519
so that they can go into the fall the way they

00:26:58.519 --> 00:27:00.660
should and go into the winter the way they should.

00:27:00.940 --> 00:27:03.240
we just have to start looking at things from

00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:06.779
a more nature kind of way of doing things. I

00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:09.180
like it. All right my last question on this topic

00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:12.740
and that is if you could just wave a magic wand

00:27:12.740 --> 00:27:16.440
for all of the beekeepers in the whole world

00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:21.400
and say please do your beekeeping this way what

00:27:21.400 --> 00:27:25.259
would one or two pieces of advice be? That's

00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:27.640
a good question. I think my first thing would

00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:33.829
be to never buy bees from out of the state. In

00:27:33.829 --> 00:27:36.809
fact, not even out of your area. If you've lost

00:27:36.809 --> 00:27:40.450
your bees and you aren't going to have any bees

00:27:40.450 --> 00:27:44.130
until like maybe mid -summer, maybe even next

00:27:44.130 --> 00:27:47.650
year, like you need to sit on it and wait until

00:27:47.650 --> 00:27:51.910
that time. You don't have to have bees and that

00:27:51.910 --> 00:27:54.009
bringing bees in from out of the area is one

00:27:54.009 --> 00:27:56.789
of the worst things that we are doing and it

00:27:56.789 --> 00:27:59.660
really just needs to stop. The other thing I

00:27:59.660 --> 00:28:04.140
think would be that you have to put the bees

00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:08.039
outside of your area in part of the equation.

00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:12.180
You just can't focus on your bees and that your

00:28:12.180 --> 00:28:16.420
well even just your financial like investment

00:28:16.420 --> 00:28:19.019
in it or the financial return that you're looking

00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:21.440
for. I think that's one of the problems that

00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:23.799
we have is that when we start putting financial

00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:26.059
things in there we make our decisions differently

00:28:26.059 --> 00:28:29.750
and poorly. Alright, let's switch topics a little

00:28:29.750 --> 00:28:33.029
bit. Let's talk about, and I warned you of this,

00:28:33.390 --> 00:28:35.690
I would love to hear a wild and crazy beekeeping

00:28:35.690 --> 00:28:39.809
story from Michael. Can you think of one? Yeah,

00:28:40.430 --> 00:28:42.650
yeah. When I started beekeeping, and that was

00:28:42.650 --> 00:28:44.970
12 years ago, just like you, I had a friend that

00:28:44.970 --> 00:28:48.230
started at that time too. Now this friend, he

00:28:48.230 --> 00:28:51.869
at that time rode a bicycle and had a cart that

00:28:51.869 --> 00:28:56.150
he pulled behind on his bicycle. He was an interesting

00:28:56.150 --> 00:28:58.819
character. I had been talking to him because

00:28:58.819 --> 00:29:01.259
I had a mentor at the time, an older gentleman

00:29:01.259 --> 00:29:05.259
who was like in his 90s, and I wasn't really

00:29:05.259 --> 00:29:07.279
learning much from him, but he was going to help

00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:09.400
me with a B removal that I had been watching

00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:13.480
for, like it was an old garage that I was gonna

00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:17.619
do my first removal with. And every day he was

00:29:17.619 --> 00:29:20.299
like, oh, it's just not right, it's just not

00:29:20.299 --> 00:29:24.170
right. And so finally I was like, okay. It's

00:29:24.170 --> 00:29:26.309
getting late. I'm just I just need to do it and

00:29:26.309 --> 00:29:28.890
I told my friend that it's like I'm just gonna

00:29:28.890 --> 00:29:31.789
I'm gonna have to do this on my own and When

00:29:31.789 --> 00:29:33.849
I got back from lunch, there's my friend with

00:29:33.849 --> 00:29:35.869
his bicycle and his cart and all of his B stuff

00:29:35.869 --> 00:29:40.049
and he's like, let's go I'm like I didn't mean

00:29:40.049 --> 00:29:45.869
today and and like but Alright, let's go. And

00:29:45.869 --> 00:29:49.549
so we went there didn't really have the tools

00:29:49.549 --> 00:29:53.539
for this didn't really know What we were getting

00:29:53.539 --> 00:29:56.680
into I mean between the two of us We still didn't

00:29:56.680 --> 00:30:00.019
have enough knowledge to attempt this and I really

00:30:00.019 --> 00:30:02.980
don't recommend it But you know it was like these

00:30:02.980 --> 00:30:06.500
bees Would move into this wall every year and

00:30:06.500 --> 00:30:08.720
they would die every year because it was a garage

00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:12.579
that had lost its roof And it was just too exposed

00:30:12.579 --> 00:30:15.519
and I was like it has to be done And so we got

00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:18.259
out there had some like hand tools because we

00:30:18.259 --> 00:30:21.039
didn't have any electric there I had a smoker

00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:24.759
and at that time all I had were gloves and a

00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:27.759
veil. and I'd been watching these bees for a

00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:30.599
long time so they were always really pretty gentle

00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:32.680
and I just I'd never been stung I would just

00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:35.119
sit there and watch them and watch them and and

00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:39.059
so I did my first kind of cut and got the board

00:30:39.059 --> 00:30:42.359
ready and and as I pulled that first board off

00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:44.619
and it made that snap now I didn't know that

00:30:44.619 --> 00:30:46.460
that snap is something that can trigger them

00:30:46.460 --> 00:30:50.819
and this really gentle colony of bees went into

00:30:50.819 --> 00:30:55.059
ballistic mode and I didn't have any idea that

00:30:55.059 --> 00:30:57.180
this would happen or could happen or what to

00:30:57.180 --> 00:31:01.099
do and I know that there are lots of other beekeepers

00:31:01.099 --> 00:31:03.900
that have done this and it's that run where you're

00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:06.420
slapping your legs and you're running like this

00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:09.359
and if you had a video of you like doing the

00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:11.019
run with the slap trying to get the bees that

00:31:11.019 --> 00:31:12.680
are like getting you everywhere on your legs

00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:16.039
and as I got like about 50 yards away they're

00:31:16.039 --> 00:31:18.160
still attacking me so I'm down on the ground

00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:20.920
doing the drop and roll and I finally it was

00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:23.640
like I got them off and then went back because

00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:26.440
it's like, okay, we're going to do this. And

00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:29.240
we finished the removal, but we didn't get the

00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:31.859
queen. The queen was still up there and I didn't

00:31:31.859 --> 00:31:34.259
know any better at the time of what to do and

00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:35.980
how to just like, you know, grab them and put

00:31:35.980 --> 00:31:40.359
them into the other box. And so instead of just

00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:42.400
like kind of letting them stay up there on their

00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:44.960
own, what I did was I built an insulated wall

00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:48.680
and I put that up for them as opposed to the

00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:51.099
boards that were up there before. And then I

00:31:51.099 --> 00:31:54.619
put insulation on the other side and that colony

00:31:54.619 --> 00:31:56.980
rebuilt and they were in there until they tore

00:31:56.980 --> 00:32:01.099
the garage down. So that's my story. I like it.

00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.200
That's unusual enough. And I have a term that

00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:07.079
I use for that running and slapping. We call

00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:12.140
it flailing. Flailing because all body parts

00:32:12.140 --> 00:32:14.839
are just kind of running and flapping all over

00:32:14.839 --> 00:32:17.660
the place. Yeah, it's it's pretty it's kind of

00:32:17.660 --> 00:32:20.539
like the Tahitian dancing. Yeah, where everything

00:32:20.539 --> 00:32:23.779
is like shaking all at once. And by the way,

00:32:23.819 --> 00:32:26.740
the bees love that, do they? Because they yeah,

00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:28.880
it makes it easier to find where I want to stay.

00:32:29.420 --> 00:32:36.059
And by the way, if some gigantic monster of a

00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:40.299
of an animal came and cut the side of my house

00:32:40.299 --> 00:32:43.319
and then ripped a whole wall off, I would attack

00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:46.480
him too. So I can't blame the bees at all for

00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.980
how they behave in these kinds of situations.

00:32:49.940 --> 00:32:53.380
Yeah, and I'm quite like I was like yesterday

00:32:53.380 --> 00:32:56.839
I had a removal and it was one where I got stung

00:32:56.839 --> 00:32:59.539
one time and that was just my fault. I had like

00:32:59.539 --> 00:33:01.319
grabbed onto something and the bee was under

00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:04.859
it. It does amaze me sometimes that They're fine.

00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.279
Like even when you use a chainsaw on a tree,

00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:09.019
you know, like the tree is dropped and you're

00:33:09.019 --> 00:33:10.940
using this chainsaw and you'd think that they'd

00:33:10.940 --> 00:33:13.440
all go ballistic on you and they they don't come

00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.240
out. And then other days you open the lid and

00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:18.779
they're just going to kill you. Some guard bees

00:33:18.779 --> 00:33:21.460
really know how to do their job. That's for sure.

00:33:21.980 --> 00:33:26.019
We're just about out of time. I looked at some

00:33:26.019 --> 00:33:28.900
of the things that you created on your website,

00:33:29.500 --> 00:33:32.519
which is thethrivinghive .com, and I'd recommend

00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:35.220
people go over there. Can you take just a minute

00:33:35.220 --> 00:33:38.619
or two to talk about your Renaissance hive and

00:33:38.619 --> 00:33:41.599
what it looks like and how it works? What I was

00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:44.440
doing, because I've been doing bee removals for

00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:47.700
12 years now, I noticed that there are a lot

00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:50.440
of things that are going to be kind of like...

00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:54.900
Universal in the way that bees build and if it's

00:33:54.900 --> 00:33:58.579
not the way that it's universally done There's

00:33:58.579 --> 00:34:01.339
usually a really good reason why they've done

00:34:01.339 --> 00:34:04.859
it differently So they they are looking at the

00:34:04.859 --> 00:34:08.059
way that the Sun is hitting everything and how

00:34:08.059 --> 00:34:10.340
they can use that as a thermal mass like for

00:34:10.340 --> 00:34:13.860
instance typically you're going to have Your

00:34:13.860 --> 00:34:16.480
brood close to the entrance when you do a removal.

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.900
So let's say you have a floor space and that

00:34:18.900 --> 00:34:22.250
floor space The entrance is right on the outside

00:34:22.250 --> 00:34:24.489
of the building and there will be brood right

00:34:24.489 --> 00:34:26.530
there in the front and then everything that's

00:34:26.530 --> 00:34:30.130
behind that will go into honey. One time and

00:34:30.130 --> 00:34:33.449
only one time that I ever see where the brood

00:34:33.449 --> 00:34:35.869
wasn't by the entrance and it was a brick house

00:34:35.869 --> 00:34:38.210
and that's because the entrance was right by

00:34:38.210 --> 00:34:40.389
the brick house and it would have been harder

00:34:40.389 --> 00:34:43.550
for them to manage the temperature. that because

00:34:43.550 --> 00:34:46.510
of the brick being absorbing the sunlight all

00:34:46.510 --> 00:34:49.329
the time, you can kind of gauge things as well.

00:34:49.329 --> 00:34:51.369
What's the purpose of it by looking at those

00:34:51.369 --> 00:34:54.570
two different things? So the Renaissance hive

00:34:54.570 --> 00:34:57.510
was just the idea that if the bees were going

00:34:57.510 --> 00:35:00.030
to build a box using a Langstroth frame, how

00:35:00.030 --> 00:35:02.949
would they do it? And that's kind of how I build

00:35:02.949 --> 00:35:06.309
it. And I started looking at, OK, how big are

00:35:06.309 --> 00:35:09.619
the colonies that I do removals from? How do

00:35:09.619 --> 00:35:12.320
you make that kind of space better for them?

00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:15.099
And how do you make more thermal mass? Like,

00:35:15.460 --> 00:35:19.079
the roof of the box sticks out just far enough

00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:23.000
where it shades the whole box during the, like,

00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:26.360
heat of the day. So, like, if you face the box

00:35:26.360 --> 00:35:28.739
towards the south, and this was actually based

00:35:28.739 --> 00:35:31.539
off the cliff dwellings of the Anasazi Indians.

00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:33.820
I had read a book about it years ago and how

00:35:33.820 --> 00:35:38.289
they utilized that. And so you create shade during

00:35:38.289 --> 00:35:40.809
the summertime, but whenever the sun is low in

00:35:40.809 --> 00:35:45.610
the wintertime, the box, I paint mine black and

00:35:45.610 --> 00:35:48.849
it's absorbing more heat. And I have it set up

00:35:48.849 --> 00:35:51.949
in a way where it actually kind of is able to

00:35:51.949 --> 00:35:54.730
move that heat through the box through channels.

00:35:55.070 --> 00:35:58.849
so that it's heating down below the box or below

00:35:58.849 --> 00:36:01.869
the hive so it gives them a few extra degrees

00:36:01.869 --> 00:36:04.230
depending on what the outside temperature is

00:36:04.230 --> 00:36:08.190
but if you add that few extra degrees up over

00:36:08.190 --> 00:36:10.349
like the course of the winter that can make a

00:36:10.349 --> 00:36:13.989
big difference also having the two entrances

00:36:13.989 --> 00:36:16.969
and having them on each side and having the frames

00:36:16.969 --> 00:36:20.449
going in the way where they're able to like defend

00:36:20.449 --> 00:36:23.449
the hive better. It also is allowing the airflow

00:36:23.449 --> 00:36:26.889
to go much better so that they usually will be

00:36:26.889 --> 00:36:29.809
using one entrance to go in and out of and the

00:36:29.809 --> 00:36:33.449
other entrance to blow air in or blow air out

00:36:33.449 --> 00:36:35.570
so they can regulate the temperatures better.

00:36:35.929 --> 00:36:38.309
So that's kind of the basics of the Renaissance

00:36:38.309 --> 00:36:41.510
Box. Super interesting. Anyway, Michael Scott,

00:36:42.050 --> 00:36:44.250
I appreciate it. We need more beekeepers like

00:36:44.250 --> 00:36:47.150
you in the world. Well, thanks. All right. Thanks

00:36:47.150 --> 00:36:52.510
a lot. Thanks again for joining us on Be Love,

00:36:52.610 --> 00:36:55.730
Be Keeping presented by Manlite. Another big

00:36:55.730 --> 00:36:58.269
thank you goes to Vita B Health for their support.

00:36:58.809 --> 00:37:01.610
Vita's Varroa Control Ranger products includes

00:37:01.610 --> 00:37:05.889
Epistan, Epigard, and now Varroxan Extended Release

00:37:05.889 --> 00:37:09.510
Oxalic Acid Strips. Hey thanks a lot guys. And

00:37:09.510 --> 00:37:12.070
if you haven't yet, please subscribe to and follow

00:37:12.070 --> 00:37:14.349
the show, tell your friends about it, and click

00:37:14.349 --> 00:37:17.630
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00:37:17.630 --> 00:37:20.789
our free newsletter. If you have a guest suggestion,

00:37:21.099 --> 00:37:23.940
or topic you'd like discussed on the show, shoot

00:37:23.940 --> 00:37:26.840
me an email, eric at be love beekeeping dot com.

00:37:27.179 --> 00:37:29.659
And remember, if you're not just in it for the

00:37:29.659 --> 00:37:32.599
honey or the money, you're in it for the love.

00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:33.739
See you next week.