How To Make The World's Best Creamed Honey

0:00 May I have your attention, please the following is not the real Jeff Fox review If your home decor is everything honeybee, well you might be a beekeeper If you hesitate when the doctor asks if you smoke you might be a beekeeper If when you Welcome, welcome to Be Love, Be Keeping presented by our good friends over at Man Lake.

0:57 We're gonna have a ton of fun today as we head all the way to Denmark to speak with a couple of hobby beekeepers and best friends about beekeeping in that part of the world and about Appamonia which is coming up this September in Copenhagen. Maybe the best part is they're going to share their secrets on creating the world's best creamed honey and they have the trophies to back it up. But first, have you ever wondered what it is about honey that keeps it fresh for so long, maybe even forever? In a sealed environment, honey may crystallize, turning thick and chunky, but it will not spoil. When we say that food has spoiled, what we actually mean is that something else has gotten to it first, something microscopic.

1:46 Bacteria, fungi, molds are present in at least low numbers in many foods. and a number of the procedures that humans use to preserve food are designed to discourage these little monsters from consuming it. Many of these microorganisms tend to prefer moist conditions, higher but not too high temperatures, a mellow pH, and plenty of oxygen around to use in their metabolism. Dehydrating meat or food then deprives them of water. Cooking food to a high heat then moving it into the refrigerator for storage first kills off many bugs and puts a damper on the growth of any left behind. Suspending food in a pickling mixture wards off all but the most acid -loving creatures. Sealing something in a jar limits the oxygen they have access to. But honey is an unusual case and here's why. It's made by honey bees from flower nectar and starts out as a warmish, watery, sugary fluid. The kind of thing that seems like it would be the purest bacteria bait. But the bees concentrate the nectar on the way to the hive, removing some of the water. They use enzymes to raise the acid content in the fluid, discouraging some forms of microorganisms from growing, and they break down the sugars into simpler ones. Then they decant the stuff

3:19 into honeycomb chambers, similar to miniature glass jars. Next, they do something remarkable. They fan the honey with their wings. The fanning slowly evaporates the remaining water like an oscillating fan evaporating sweat from your skin. So a substance that was once about 70 or 80 percent water sees that number drop and drop and drop. Fully ripened honey typically has a water content between 17 and 18 percent. In fact the proportion of sugar molecules to water is so enormous that it wouldn't be physically possible to dissolve that much sugar into that much water without a process like the one that honey bees use. There's plenty of sugar there and of course microorganisms would love to have a go at it, but with so little water... and the acidity providing an additional disincentive they simply can't survive. Once the proper percentage of water is reached, bees seal each chamber with a cap of beeswax similar to us putting a lid on a jar. It limits the availability of oxygen and there's another barrier to growth.

4:34 This is a state known as low water activity among food scientists and in fact lowering a substance's water activity is a common trick to preserve processed foods. Now this doesn't mean that honey can withstand all challenges to freshness. If your house is anything like mine sometimes there's a jar that's open which means its surface is regularly exposed to the air and maybe somebody is dipping licked spoons in which will bring bacteria and moisture that weren't there before the jar was sealed. Anyway it is amazing, yes once again honey bees are absolutely amazing. Maybe in the future we'll take a deep dive into the actual chemistry of honey but for now while you're still awake let's meet Lars and Zofus in Denmark. This is going to be really fun today, everybody. We're going across the pond to Denmark to meet with Lars Fischer and his buddy Zofus.

5:36 I didn't catch your last name, Zofus. Knusen, Zofus Knusen. It's a good thing I didn't try to say that. I have a hard time pronouncing these Scandinavian words. They're not built into our American tongues. I apologize for that. But Lars will mostly be speaking with you. Good afternoon, and how are you today? Well, I'm fine, Eric. Thank you. Sufis and I, we've been making queens today, so it's been a full day. I got stung in my face just below the eye. Now I'm on video, so I don't hope it's too swollen yet. That's sort of on the shady side of your face, so I don't notice it too much. I'm curious, did you have a veil on when you got stung? No, you know, that's always the problem. I stood some meters away and everything was calm. And then suddenly one bee decided that I should be some kind of target. Yeah, so I only had myself to blame, actually. Well, that is usually the case. Yeah, it is. When we first start beekeeping, at least with me, I was covered from head to toe and hardly ever got stung. But then we get a little bit more lax and a little bit more lax and we get stung more. And it's our own fault because of that, I guess. But we're going to talk about all kinds of things today, including apomondia.

7:03 And that's why we're over in Denmark, because that conference is coming up in September in Copenhagen. Or I assume you would pronounce Copenhagen? København. København. Yeah, København. But we get Copenhagen as well. I wasn't even close. I'm sorry about that. But first, I want to hear about you raising queens. What kind of technique do you happen to use? So I have the bees together with Sofus and we have the luxury of being hobby beekeepers. So we don't do it for a living and we don't have to earn a lot of money doing it. So we do it for the fun and for the adventure.

7:46 So we can sort of, we can try new things each year if we want to. What we have done this year is we've been making 13 or 14 small families, small new families. And we waited a week and then we took out all the queen cells they have started making. And today we grafted, I think it's called grafting, from our two best families. And we put in three cells in each of the new families. We did that the last few years and that's a technique that's good for our sort of level of doing it. So as hobbyists, how many hives do you two have? We have 15 hives and now 13 small families. We started as beekeepers in 2009 and pretty soon we sort of found our level.

8:43 Especially after we won this honey championship in 2017, we got a lot of offers from big stores and chains and smaller stores of making something with them or selling our honey with them. And we were totally excited. I guess both Soufis and I, we are pretty easily ignitable. when it comes to excitement. So we had all these huge plans until we talked with our wives, who sort of, well, we'd like to see you once in a while too. And then we sort of realized what was important for us in our beekeeping. Well, that's the hobby part of it. And then we realized that what's important for us in our beekeeping is, you know, relaxing in the bees, de -stressing in the bees, being together with each other and the bees, the hobby part of it. So we actually ended up cancelling all these plans and proposals we have got from the companies and saying this season and the next season, it's all about back to basics.

9:50 It's about what's the values of our beekeeping, what's important for us. And that is the hobby part of it. And that's been our level ever since. So 15 beehives, that's our level. Otherwise, you get too busy. I absolutely love that attitude because for so many of us, it's easy to just be into, wow, it's going well. I want to expand. I want more hives. I want more hives. I want more hives. But unless you really want to do it for a living, just find a level that's comfortable for you so that you have time to really enjoy it. Now, I understand commercial beekeepers, they're in a different zone and it's a business.

10:32 For the rest of us, even for some sideliners, but especially for hobbyists, yeah, find your sweet spot and just really enjoy it. That is fantastic. It should all be a balance, a beekeeping life balance between beekeeping and all the other stuff in our lives and work and family and that, but also a balance between the amount of bees and the amount of honey we get. So because we have to sort of sell or use the honey too. Yeah, give me an idea of how much honey per high view average. We have three different apiaries here. We have one here at home where we live and it's sort of Danish countryside. And Danish is a very, it's farmland. We are an agricultural land. So there are big fields around where we live. Then we have an apiary in a forest nearby, and it's a newly planted forest, so there are huge amounts of different weeds there, and we love it. Thistle.

11:36 We love thistle. And then we have an apiary in the middle of the neighboring city of Odense, and that's a city with around 200 ,000 people. And the reason I'm saying that is because at home and in the forest, we get maybe 50 to 60 kilos. That must be 100, 120 pounds of honey per hive per year. Right. And that's a good yield. That's excellent. But in the middle of Odense, the city, we get maybe 200 to 220 pounds honey per year per hive. Wow. Huge amounts of honey.

12:18 Is that because a lot of people grow flowers or why is that? We can measure that there's much more nature in the city than on the Danish countryside. And that really gives food for thought. Because somehow it shouldn't be that way. We wouldn't expect it to be that way. We would expect the nature to be on the countryside. But the nature, the flowers, the nectar, it's in the city. And Ulense is a green city. It has a lot of parks. It has a lot of gardens. But still, we get twice as much honey in the city as we do on the countryside. You must do something right in your cities over there. We need to take a lesson from you. Yeah, we have a lot of parks and greenery. I think we have that in Uhrenstedt, but also in Copenhagen.

13:08 There are a lot of beekeepers in Copenhagen as well, and it's a good place to have bees. Speaking of Copenhagen, let's talk about Appamondia for a minute. And then don't let me forget, I want to get back to 2017 and hear about your big award for the world's best honey. Yeah. But tell us about, if someone has never heard of Appamondia, just go from the start, explain what it is and why it's going to be in Copenhagen this year. So Appamondia is the the congress held by the Epimondia Federation and the Epimondia Federation that's sort of the world organization for beekeepers. And there are a lot of national associations that are member associations of the Epimondia Federation. Denmark as a whole has one big beekeepers association and we are members of the Epimondia Federation. And I think actually there are five members in the USA But it's global. It's for beekeepers from all over the world. And every second year, there is this congress somewhere in the world. Sofis and I, we have attended six congresses in Kiev, in the Ukraine, in South Korea, in Istanbul, obviously, and in Canada, in Montreal, and in Istanbul again, and in Chile.

14:32 So it's really a traveling event. Next time in September this year, it will be in Copenhagen. So in 2022, the three Scandinavian Beekeepers Association, we teamed up and we made this bid to win the right to host the Appamontia Congress. It's a bit like the Olympic games, you know, the cities or the countries they compete. and won CC, they win and they made this grand show. Next time there's an Olympic Games. It's the same with the Appymontia Congress. So it'll come to Copenhagen in September. And it's a bit like the other big conferences. There's an Appy Expo, we call it, where all the companies, they have their stands, they have their booths. They sort of show what they have invented since the last time and they... They meet and they trade and they sell and they sell honey and they buy honey.

15:32 And then there's also a scientific part. All the scientists, they come to Copenhagen and we don't see them much during that week because they have three or four hundred lectures and talks, roundtable discussions, all kinds of meetups. And then there is something new, which we call the Global Honey Bar. So we have basically invited every country in the world to come to Copenhagen and bring their most prestigious honeys, the honeys they are mostly proud of, their signature honeys. And we make this huge table and they put it and every participant, they can come and they can taste on honey from all over the world.

16:20 Quick break here to thank our presenting sponsor, Man Lake. Whether you're a beekeeper or not, you know that nutrition is key for healthy honey bees, native bees, and other pollinators. The Man Lake app is a great resource for determining pollinator -friendly plants that thrive in your area, and its plant identification feature is super helpful and fun. When I see a plant covered in bees, I fire up the app, find out what it is, then plant them in my yard. If you haven't already downloaded the Man Lake app, give it a try today. Oh, and did I mention it's free? And if you're shopping for beekeeping supplies, don't forget your discount code MLBlove10, it's in the show notes, for $10 off your first $100 purchase. And we expect between 8 ,000 to 9 ,000 visitors from all over the world. There's also a huge social program. We want to make an evening bar for all the beekeepers. We want to make parties and receptions. And in the venue we want to make a lot of coffee spots, nice spots to sit, spots to meet old friends and new friends and old acquaintances.

17:35 We want to make it this huge place where people from all over the world can meet. Are there language barriers with people from all over the world or is there a common language? Of course there is the language barriers, but it's somehow a bit easier when all of us are beekeepers. We tend to find this common language when we meet someone. Many people obviously speak English and you always ask, well, how many hives do you have? And then you're sort of already in some kind of exchange or conversation. By the way, your English is very, very good. Thank you. Yeah, congratulations. That must be a lot of work.

18:15 It's really good. So why would a hobbyist go to something like this? You guys have been to a few of them. Why would you invest the time and the money to do something like that? Well, that's the great part of being a hobbyist. We do it for the experiences and for the adventure. So the first time we have had bees for four years and we heard about this Congress in the Kiev and we thought we got to see that, we got to try that. And then when we had decided to go there, we heard about these WBA honey contests and we, well, if we are going, why not try participating, try bringing our honey. And I think that we were the first Danes ever to bring our honey. to the WBA, the World Beekeeping Awards. And we just did it because we are, as I said, easy, ignitable.

19:09 And that was a steep learning curve, bringing our honey to the contest. Basically, some of our honey got stuck in customs and it was all very frustrating. But it was also a big experience and super rewarding. So in 2015, we decided we'll We'll try it again. We learned a lot. We'll try to use what we've learned the last time. So there are some great conferences in the USA too, and also here in Europe. But I think what makes the Appimondia Congress stand apart is it's a truly international congress. So it's people from from all over the world. You see big black guys in in Lyonford. You see Asian guys with strange hats. And in Kiev, there were these Eastern European men with swords on their side. You see shite from Arabia. You see all kinds of people. And they all walk there and they all have something in common. This flavor of international brotherhood somehow. That's also why we've called this a congress in Copenhagen. the social congress, because that's very important for us, making space for people to come together and discover that we all have something in common, because we live in a very fragmented world. You know, there are many things sort of dividing us and

20:40 keeping us apart, but beekeeping, that's one thing that brings us together, and we love that perspective of it. When this episode comes out, we're only going to be a month or two away from the conference. Is it going to be too late for people to make plans now? I'm sure there are free tickets for the congress. But if you come from the States, it's a big thing to go to Europe. I know, but we will, even if you come to the door and buy a ticket, we will welcome you all with open eyes. Open arms, it's called. So it doesn't sell out. We'll be able to get in even if we're at the last minute. Yeah, the Bella Center, the venue, it's huge. We would just be happy. The more the merrier. And by the way, I will say for people that haven't been to Copenhagen, wow, beautiful place, wonderful people, great food. The conference would just be an added bonus on top of that. Visiting there is worth doing.

21:39 And Copenhagen is an easy city to get around in as well. There's a metro in Copenhagen and as an Epimondia participant, you will be able to buy it for greatly reduced price of a week ticket. And you can go around in the whole of Copenhagen and it's very easy, I think. Okay. How about if we get Zofus on for a minute? Yeah. Oh, there he is. My beekeeping buddy. Hey, beekeeping buddy. I didn't want to leave you out of this thing. It's good to see you too. Thank you very much, Uri. And thanks for inviting us to talk about Appimondia and our beekeeping here in Denmark. If I can't make it to the conference this year, I will come see you guys sometime either way.

22:23 Yes, we've been discussing whether or not we should invite everybody to come and visit us. And basically, everybody is very welcome, both in Denmark and also in our place. Oh, I didn't wait for an invitation. I just invited myself. Some of that Danish pastry. It's been too long. I need to come get some of that. Hey, how about if we let you tell us about your award -winning honey from 2017? When you actually won the award for the world's best honey, what does that mean? Why is your honey better than everybody else's? We won the Carl and Virginia Webb Trophy, the award for the best honey in the world, with our granulated honey, which was actually the first time granulated honey won. Do you know what your bees were foraging on to make that world's best honey? Yes. So we want the world's best honey with our spring honey. And it's a very light and mild granulated, creamed honey we make together with the bees. And the bees, they had been visiting the dandelion and all the fruit trees in the area, and then the rape. the rape flowers. And then there is a lot of the granola. Canola. What's it called in USA? Canola? Yeah, canola. We have a lot of canola here in Denmark and it makes this very light and mild honey. And the canola honey has a tendency of becoming very hard. And

23:57 so every Danish beekeeper has to sort of learn how to treat it, how to stir it, and how to treat it so it... doesn't become that hard, but becomes spreadable and nice and soft and creamy. And Sufis and I, we are really good at that. So the consistency is just perfect. And that's always the craft of a granulated honey. It's to make the consistency perfect. So I think that's why it won. So what's your secret to keeping it spreadable, as you put it? Because the honey that my bees make, depending on the time of year, yeah, it can really get hard quite fast. Yeah. And so what's your secret? Is it a lot of stirring?

24:42 Is it warm temperatures? So what we do is we seed our spring honey with a couple of jars of spring honey from last year, because we want to make it. We want to make it a lot of tiny crystals. So it becomes a fine crystalline. We jar it on the right time. And then if it becomes hard, Eric, and I think this is the secret. You put it in 30 degrees for like 24 hours. And then you take it out in the cold again. We don't warm it up so it melts or anything, but 30 degrees sort of speeds up the process, this natural maturing process that the honey does in the jar. Instead of it taking half a year, it takes a day. And after that, our honey is spreadable and nice, and it stays that. And by the way, 30 degrees Celsius, that's about 86 degrees Fahrenheit.

25:41 So let me make sure I get this straight. So you warm it to that temperature for one day, and then you cool it back down? Yeah, as quick as possible. We cool it down. And then the crystallization is just very smooth and consistent. Yeah, the heating doesn't change the crystal structure, but it makes the honey softer, and it stays soft even after we put it back into our honey storage. And then the other secret is when we do our honey treatment, when we seed the honey and we stir it, it has to be cold. It has to be below... below 19 and better 14 than 20 or better 5 degrees as 20. And what's that in Fahrenheit? I'm talking Celsius here. What's that in Fahrenheit? So 14 degrees, that's about 57 degrees Fahrenheit.

26:40 Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty cold. So that's not as cold as a refrigerator, but that's pretty chilly. Yeah, and I would always choose to have it in a refrigerator, if it was possible, instead of having it in 20 or 22 degrees. Because if it's too hot, you'll get larger crystals. And if it's cold, you'll get smaller crystals. Okay. We're all learning something here today. Thank you for that. If you don't seed it with last year's honey, it's still going to crystallize, right? Yeah. But just in a way that you don't like as much? Is that why you seed it? Well, it's not a matter of liking it. We call it a crystal honey if it has very coarse crystals.

27:29 And we make some of it each year because some people like it very much. They had it in their childhood. You know, the honey you had as a kid, it's still the best honey in the world. And the honey I had as a kid, was this finely crystallized cream spring honey. So my granddad was a beekeeper and I'm raised on huge amounts of Danish spring honey. So that's the one I like most. And Sufis' favorite is the Heather honey. It's darker and it's more tasteful, but we don't have Heather here where we live. So we ended up participating in these championships with the mild spring honey.

28:12 Yeah, we had a beekeeper a few months ago on the show that was from Scotland and they made Heather honey there. Yeah. He was saying how wonderful it is. That is something I haven't tried yet, so I'm going to do that. I just want to get a couple of definitions out there for people that are new to beekeeping and honey. Crystallization is completely normal for honey, okay? Yes. It does not mean it's gone bad. When we use other terms like creamed honey, That is honey that has been crystallized, but the crystals are very fine and so it's a very creamy substance kind of honey. Yeah. Versus honey can also get larger crystals that are almost like, I don't know, like BB size and everything in between.

29:02 And none of those means there's something wrong with the honey. If you take a honey in any of those states and warm it enough, it will go back to a liquid kind of form. Some honeys crystallize faster than others, some crystallize in a more creamy way, some in a more coarse way. I think they're all good and they all have their own place out there. Yeah, and that's the great thing about honey. tastes wonderfully, even though you can make different products out of it. I often also get asked by people, well, why isn't the honey in the grocery store crystallizing?

29:43 I'm not sure how it is in Denmark, but the answer to most people here in the States is usually that honey has been pasteurized at a high enough level that it's sort of killed that process. And so that honey is going to stay liquid for much, much, much longer. But you've also damaged the honey by heating it too much. Yeah. The qualities that come with the raw honey, many of those are now gone. Yeah. So we try to sort of work with the honey and its nature instead of fighting with it and heating it up in order to make it stay liquid for longer. All right. You told me that you had a good wild and crazy beekeeping story, Lars. Yeah. Go for it. What happened?

30:31 So a few years ago, Eric, we had bees on the top of a hotel roof. It was a wonderful flat roof. We have a beautiful view. We could see all the trees in the city. And on that roof, there were two small houses, you know, where the elevator goes up. And we soon found out that that little house, that's a perfect place to put our smoker. Then we don't have to sort of bring the smoker in the car every time. We can just put it off and then put it in there. And that's what we did until one day we were there. And then the manager of this hotel, he came to us and he said, well, guys, I had a visit the other day. Yeah. We said, yeah, suddenly the fire department was here. The fire alarm in the hotel went off. We had this inkling where this conversation would bring, would turn to, would go. Yeah. So all the guests, they went out on the street and the fire department, they came and they had this little machine. They could sort of track where the smoke was coming from and they tracked it to your smoker. And we were very pale at that point because obviously we did not put our smoker out as efficient as we thought we were. And we could sort of imagine this bill, 100 ,000 kroner or something coming our way and all the guests standing in their

32:03 night robes. Luckily, he was very, very killed about it. And the fire department was too, because when they were there, they discovered that they needed to sort of draw the hotel again and make new drawings with all the rooms on and you are here and where is the newest fire extinguisher. So they ended up doing that instead. So Sufis and I, we got no bill, but we got a giant wake -up call, always, always to put out our smoker. And I think the trouble was we didn't put it out as efficiently as we thought we were. And then this elevator, it worked like it made a lot of wind in this house. So the smoke was drawn down all the six floors, where then they could smell the smoke, the guests. I think we were very, very lucky. I think you were too. Yeah.

32:59 Not to get a big bill for that one, but hey, that is a good reminder for us. Yeah, it is. Yeah. It took a few weeks and we can laugh about it. Yeah. We want to make sure that those things are really all the way out. How do you put it all the way out now? Well, we basically, we empty it and we step on it really hard. Yeah. And then we want to buy a metal box for it, but we haven't gotten that far yet. Actually, we don't use the smoker that much anymore. Only if we have some bee families who are really angry for some reason. But mostly we just use a wet towel and we place it on top of the boxes. That works really well for us. Explain that. So is that like you take a lid off and then you put a wet towel on? So when we open the beehives and we take apart the boxes, Instead of having boxes open, we put a wet towel on top of each box. And then when we work in a box, we sort of take the towel to the side and we can take out the frames and put the towel back in a way. And if the towel is wet, the bees, they go down a bit. So when we put the boxes back together on top of each other, when we take the towel off, bees are a few centimeters down and we can put up, put on the next box.

34:19 without crushing too many bees or crushing bees. I've never heard of that before. I'm going to try it. Yeah, do that. Make it wet so it's wet and cold. And it's not so wet that it's dripping in the hive, right? It's just very moist. Yeah. We put it under the water and then we sort of squeeze it as much as we can. Get the extra water out. So then you take a lid off. You put it on top of the frames. And then you just peel back a little bit at a time to pull a frame out, put it back in. Yeah. Or you can just have it on the other boxes and have it off the box you're working with, if that's easier for you. I love how we can learn from each other. Yeah, I hope it works for you too. I don't know the bees you have over there. Oh, they're bees that like wet towels, I'm sure. Yeah. Now we primarily here in the States have Italians, Carniolans. There are others and there are some that get very grumpy and we'll let you know it. We also have parts of the States, especially in the South, where we have Africanized genetics have moved in. And so these are not as friendly. I don't believe you have those. Do you have other pest problems?

35:36 Like are you getting the yellow -legged hornet where you are? Well, we've been looking out for it for the last years, because we know it's in Europe, we know it's on its way up. And then as late as last week, a beekeeper here on the island where we live, Thun, he enjoyed a beer on his terrace, and suddenly a yellow -legged hornet jumped down in his beer. And that's the only one we've ever seen in Denmark that was in this man's beer who got quite famous. Now we are even looking even more for it because we have to keep an eye on it. Well, it had to come from somewhere and they don't all commit suicide in beer. No, there must be some hive somewhere. So I'm sure it's just a matter of time because we have hoped that the winters would be too cold here. for it to thrive. But the winters here in Denmark, they get warmer and warmer for each year. So I think we have it now. Hey, one other topic that is a big one, but we'll try to touch on it just quickly. And that is, do you have a lot of problems with varroa mites there? We have to have a good strategy and we have to keep it at bay like you have. And most beekeepers in Denmark, they use a different kind of organic acids to treat their varroa mites.

36:53 Like oxalic acid? Formic acid. And then the last years, many beekeepers have started using sticks with oxalic acid and glycerin. You put it down and it stays there for a month. And it's also a really effective treatment against the varomites. But everyone has to have a strategy of which time to treat and to keep an eye on it. Okay. Very last thing for both you and Zofus. And that is I can tell that you guys love honeybees. and beekeeping. Tell me what it is that you love about it so much. Tofus, what do we love about honeybees? We love being together with the bees and being together with each other and being together with other beekeepers, being together with you here, making adventure. It's like a magic world. The beekeeping is like a magic world.

37:46 And you never really get fully educated in beekeeping. I like that very much. There's always something new to learn, but there's always also new things to invent or small new wooden things to make that you can use in your beekeeping. There's always something new to try out. I like that. And people working with bees tend to be very enthusiastic and energetic. And I really like this. You know, when you work in the beehives, you have to use all your senses. You look at the bees, you can see how they are, you listen to them, you can listen to their sound, how they are and how they thrive. But you can also smell, if the beehive smells bad, we can smell where the queen is in the beehive. Because we tried it out, especially in the spring, we can smell on top of the frames and we can smell where she is. And I love this. It's the thing for all the senses when you work in the bees and you sort of you have to be fully present. Also not to crush bees because if you are hurry or stressed or anything you crush bees and I hate that or you get stung. Hey Lars and Sophus, thank you so much for being with me and we'll have a link in the show notes for anybody that wants to look up and learn more about Apomondia. You guys have been awesome. I love talking to people that love bees and I'm going to get a wet towel and take it out with me next time. Try that again. Could

39:19 you put a link on to our YouTube channel as well? Yes. Send me that link and I'll post it as well. We have a playlist on that YouTube channel with English subtitles. Subtitles. Subtitles. And they are really great, our videos, we think. Alright, sounds fantastic. Thanks guys. Thanks again for joining us here on Be Love, Be Keep being presented by Man Lake. Remember right now to follow or subscribe and share this podcast. Also a shout out to V2B Health for their support of the show. Vita's Varroa Control range of products includes Apistan, Apigard, and now Veroxan Extended Release Oxalic Acids Trips. Hey thanks guys, we really appreciate it. Enjoy this beautiful summer, enjoy your bees, and remember, if you're not just in it for the honey or the money, you're in it for the love. See you next week.