Dr. Sammy Ramsey - Nat Geo's "Secrets of the Bees"

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in a world brimming with complexity few creatures

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embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless

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precision she dances from bloom to bloom each

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motion guided by millennia upon millennia of

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instinct each act in service to the whole and

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then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards

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of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,

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part poet, they move along their hives with the

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efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to

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the bees' needs as best they can comprehend,

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and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the

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Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing

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like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their

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journey. Welcome welcome to Be Love Beekeeping

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presented by our good friends and partners in

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beekeeping, Man Lake. Our guest today is not

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only one of the world's leading authorities on

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honey bees He is super entertaining. National

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Geographic Explorer, Dr. Sammy Ramsey is going

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to be here with us. We'll discuss his role in

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producing the new series, Secrets of the Bees,

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how they got that amazing footage inside the

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hive, and what it was like to work with James

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Cameron. Plus I'll pick his brain on, Varroa

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testing, Tropy mites, and of course his wild

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and crazy beekeeping story. Hint, it involves

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an emergency room visit. That's all coming up,

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but first let's take two minutes to go inside

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the hive, this feature presented by Primal Bee.

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If you've ever cracked open a hive and found

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everything glued together with sticky golden

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brown gunk you've met, propolis beekeepers call

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it bee glue because it makes inspections feel

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like a wrestling match sometimes bees make propolis

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by collecting resin from tree buds and bark they

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mix it together with wax and enzymes they use

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it to seal cracks smooth out rough surfaces and

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shrink the entrance to something easier to defend

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the interesting thing is that propolis kills

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bacteria and fungi Bees coat the inside of their

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nest with it, building what scientists call a

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propolis envelope. The whole interior can get

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covered with a layer of this natural disinfectant.

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Research shows that colonies with heavier propolis

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envelopes have lower disease loads. The bees

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don't have to fight off infections as hard individually

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because their living space is doing some of the

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immune work for them. Wild colonies living inside

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tree cavities tend to have way more propolis

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than colonies in standard hives. The rough bark

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in the inside of that tree cavity gives bees

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something to coat as compared to smooth wooden

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boxes that don't trigger as much of the same

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response. So remember, next time you're scraping

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propolis off your frames, you're looking at your

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bees attempt to keep themselves healthy. I'd

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like to welcome today our super very special

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guest to the show. This is Dr. Samuel Ramsey.

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Dr. Sammy, how are you today? I'm doing wonderfully

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today. How are you? I'm fantastic. It is so good

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to meet you finally. This whole thing has come

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together because of Secrets of the Bees, now

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streaming on Disney Plus and Hulu, by the way.

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And it is fantastic. And I just wanted to talk

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to you to see what it was like being involved

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with it. So thanks again for coming on. Oh, I'm

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delighted to get to come here and talk about

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my favorite things. Bees and this documentary

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that I've had the opportunity to get to be a

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part of in so many different ways on it. I mentioned

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it on the show last week, and this is before

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you and I even had this interview set up, and

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I mentioned that one of the really cool things

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is, for beekeepers, is to be able to get a view

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inside the hive and see things that most of us

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have never seen. Could you tell us what some

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of those things were and how they got some of

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those shots? This is one of my favorite questions

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to answer because I'm certain that it's precisely

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what I would be thinking if I watched this documentary

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and wasn't a part of making this documentary

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because I've seen things before where my first

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question was how did they get a shot like that

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but this documentary I mean most documentaries

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maybe I'll think that once or twice throughout

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this documentary every time I saw a shot I thought

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man if they didn't see the behind the scenes

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of it the way that I did. They would have to

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have no idea how we got into the colony in that

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way and got that shot, how we were able to actually

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see the the different mouth parts of the bee

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going through the honey and parting it aside

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and creating this meniscus so it can drink the

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very viscous honey. Or like when the two bees

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tongues are touching and they're exchanging fluid

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between like there's just so much cool stuff.

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I love this this very specific shot where we

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set up a camera in front of a set of flowers

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that only bumblebees are really capable of pollinating

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effectively and these flowers through buzz pollination

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the bees are able to grab on to the anther of

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the flower the part that produces the pollen

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but the flower really holds on tightly to the

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pollen and so unless you vibrate it at the right

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frequency it won't release the load of pollen

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and so these bumblebees just jackhammer up against

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the flower which was really cool but then when

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the bee actually backed away from the flower

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and released some of the nectar from its mouth

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parts and then spread it past it while flying

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between its legs all the way to its back legs

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so they could squeeze it onto the pollen so the

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pollen wouldn't blow away in flight that was

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something that we weren't originally setting

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out to capture when we did and man oh man did

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their patience pay off from watching all these

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flowers trying to get amazing shots of buzz pollination

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to seeing something that's literally never been

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caught on camera before and it was caught using

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these very high -speed cameras With a videographer

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very patiently waiting there adjusting focus

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trying to get everything in frame And some of

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it was a little magic and a little luck, but

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it is one of the coolest visuals of the entire

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documentary There's a bunch of them that are

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really cool. But yeah, you have to work with

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James Cameron. Yes, seriously You can drop his

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name for the whole rest of your life now. I'm

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looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to

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it. It's one of those moments where I mean, I'm

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a science communicator. I love talking about

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science, but having the opportunity to break

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into a world of science communication that's

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very different from what I've done before was

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really exciting. So getting to jump into being

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a documentarian in some ways, but to have that

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very first foray be with Disney Nat Geo and James

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Cameron is just bonkers, and I understand that

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it's bonkers, and I will not deny it even for

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a moment. It's all downhill from here, I'm sorry

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to tell you. I've been told that several times

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now. From other people as rude as me. Okay, so

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how were you involved with, like were you involved

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in some of the scripting and consulting? Birdie

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is the guy on camera, and he's doing the talking,

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but I have a feeling you know a little bit more

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about bees than he does. That's possible. As

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a producer for Secrets of the Bees, I got to

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be involved in so many different aspects of bringing

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all this together because as a producer, you're

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looking into the creative elements of this and

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trying to figure out how do we make all of this

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come together. And so for a documentary like

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this, where there's so many moving parts, you

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kind of end up with your hands on a little bit

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of everything. Consulting, talking through the

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different aspects of what's going on here. I

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even ended up doing some of the vocals for the

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documentary. It's been an absolutely wild ride,

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start to finish. But when I say that getting

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to do something like this, I mean, it's just,

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it's truly been incredible. So a place where

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they really wanted my help consistently was making

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sure that everything that is said on screen.

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Whether it's by birdie me anybody else that it

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is entirely scientifically accurate. And so there's

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a lot of Moving parts there because I have to

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make sure okay, that's accurate But the way that

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it said could be misconstrued this way. Maybe

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we say it this way Maybe we frame it that way

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so there was a lot of that going on and I probably

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got on their nerves a bit because as a Scientist

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I am constantly looking at this from angles that

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literally no one else is going to interpret it

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the way that I'm thinking of it and so there's

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There's been a lot there, but they seem to really

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appreciate that aspect of my skill set. But then

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also getting a chance to even be a part of the

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music. David Mitchum is an incredible composer,

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and he wanted to pull me into some of the vocals.

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And so you can hear my harmonies in the background,

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my oohs and aahs and swells and runs here and

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there. And it's really been quite exciting. And

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finally, just getting to... talk through with

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everyone what we can show on screen because as

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a scientist I've seen a lot of amazing things

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happen with bees in the lab but it's because

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we've got incredible equipment and amazing microscopes

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and There are things that I feel like other people

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just don't get a chance to get to see. And I

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really wanted the rest of the world to see bees

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from the vantage points that I do. So getting

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to talk to our incredible videographers like

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Alastair McEwen, who unfortunately is no longer

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with us, but finished out the documentary and

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it is dedicated to him that, you know, this this

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entire documentary experience because of how

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much work he invested in it. It was their incredible

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ideas to use things like in endoscopy cameras,

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like literally the ones that, you know, if you

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go to a gastroenterologist and they go up to

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those endoscopy cameras. Is that what they put

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in the hive to get some of those shots? And I

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was also thinking you've got to have lights in

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there too, which the endoscopy cameras probably

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do. Oh yeah. Wow. So you were involved in the

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music too. I'm going to have to go back and watch

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it again now and listen for your woo -woo's in

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the background. I made my parents do that too.

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Give us 20 seconds of your credentials. PhD entomologist.

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Keep going from there. PhD entomologist. I was

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a visiting researcher in Thailand for... about

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a year and a half, National Geographic Wayfinder,

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as well as an NG33 fellow, which is really exciting.

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They choose 33 visionaries that they feel like

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are changing the world. I was also part of the

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50 people changing the world through the Explorers

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Club. And so it's just been a really exciting,

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it's been a really exciting journey as a scientist

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because... I've been running around for a long

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time talking about insects, preaching the gospel

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of bugs. I was literally seven when I told my

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family that I wanted to be an entomologist when

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I grew up. And a lot of that time I've been thought

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of as a weird guy, you know, like, what are you

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doing? And so it's been pretty exciting to see

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people recognizing what I'm doing the way that

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they are. What used to be something considered

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odd or weird is now something that's being celebrated.

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And it means so much to me. You're doing research,

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you're teaching, you've got social media, you've

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got the Nat Geo gig. You've been on CBS Morning

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News, I just saw you on the cover of Beef Culture

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Magazine, NPR, and you're a singer. Do you have

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time to breathe? Do you have time to actually

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get out and enjoy some bees yourself? I do have

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time to breathe sometimes. but not as much of

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it as I wish that I had. Oh my goodness. I've

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spent so much of my time running around in different

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countries, working with my students. That takes

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up a lot of my time because I love the idea that

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I get to mold the minds of researchers who are

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going to be incredible in their own right at

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understanding bees and changing the world themselves.

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So it's been Quite the experience out here. I'm

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working on all of these different things But

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I have to take some time to myself or the world

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will slow me down so yesterday I was out hiking

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in less than efficient footwear and broke my

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foot and so I am actually sitting up here doing

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this podcast with my foot up in a cast and everything.

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And my friends have been telling me that this

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is the world's way of telling me to slow down

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a bit because I'm doing way too much. And you're

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in Boulder, Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, University

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of Colorado, Boulder, hiking around those beautiful

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mountains there. Gorgeous place. I did some of

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that myself on our side of the mountains I'm

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over on the Utah side of the mountains from you.

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I did some of that just today and Thank goodness

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didn't break anything as long as we've got a

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PhD dude here. I want to learn some things from

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you. Okay? Yeah, what's up? So you're overseas

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studying things like tropal elaps And I I've

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told some guests on the show. We don't even talk

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about the t -word on this show, but as long as

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you're here What are we gonna do with these tropy

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mites? How are we gonna keep them from getting

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here? And how are we gonna get rid of the suckers

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once they do because I don't know that we keep

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them gone forever You're asking a lot of good

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questions a lot of good questions. It is my goal

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and You know what let's put this on record is

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my goal as the principal investigator of the

00:14:29.909 --> 00:14:33.169
Boulder B Lab to make sure that I find a way

00:14:33.169 --> 00:14:36.769
for us to effectively manage Varroa such that

00:14:36.769 --> 00:14:38.549
it is no longer the looming threat that it has

00:14:38.549 --> 00:14:42.129
been for so long. And my hope is that any system

00:14:42.129 --> 00:14:44.889
that I develop here to manage Varroa can also

00:14:44.889 --> 00:14:47.529
be ported over for management of tropemites because

00:14:47.529 --> 00:14:50.769
they are the next wicked brood mite on the horizon.

00:14:50.990 --> 00:14:53.269
And I'm very concerned about what they are capable

00:14:53.269 --> 00:14:56.710
of doing. It is abundantly clear that we do not

00:14:56.710 --> 00:14:58.769
understand them to the extent that we need to

00:14:58.769 --> 00:15:00.809
understand them in order to effectively control

00:15:00.809 --> 00:15:03.090
them. We just don't know nearly enough about

00:15:03.090 --> 00:15:05.029
them. We are doing the same thing that we did

00:15:05.029 --> 00:15:08.029
for Varroa. We waited for Varroa mites to arrive

00:15:08.029 --> 00:15:10.289
in the U .S. before we started studying them.

00:15:10.590 --> 00:15:12.909
And as a result, there were so many aspects of

00:15:12.909 --> 00:15:15.470
the Varroa mite's life cycle and behavior that

00:15:15.470 --> 00:15:17.169
we didn't understand, that we didn't have all

00:15:17.169 --> 00:15:19.070
the details for because we didn't do the work.

00:15:19.590 --> 00:15:21.549
Well, we're doing something similar with Tropy.

00:15:21.950 --> 00:15:24.570
The vast majority of the research about tropemites

00:15:24.570 --> 00:15:29.330
is occurring in a lot of different parts of the

00:15:29.330 --> 00:15:33.049
world now, but there's just not a lot of controls

00:15:33.049 --> 00:15:36.029
on how some of this research is coming out, some

00:15:36.029 --> 00:15:38.090
of the things that are being said haven't been

00:15:38.090 --> 00:15:40.250
verified, and it's just become a really confusing

00:15:40.250 --> 00:15:43.129
space because there's a lot that's been printed

00:15:43.129 --> 00:15:45.610
about tropy that doesn't seem to comport with

00:15:45.610 --> 00:15:47.690
the reality of tropy. And I'll give you an example.

00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.679
I admit a pet peeve of mine is that it seems

00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:54.679
all bee hives are white, yet boring old white.

00:15:55.340 --> 00:15:58.299
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00:15:58.299 --> 00:16:00.879
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00:16:12.470 --> 00:16:16.029
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00:16:16.029 --> 00:16:19.889
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00:16:19.889 --> 00:16:24.850
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00:16:24.850 --> 00:16:29.450
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00:16:29.450 --> 00:16:32.970
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00:16:32.970 --> 00:16:37.710
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00:16:37.710 --> 00:16:41.090
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00:16:54.549 --> 00:16:59.230
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00:16:59.330 --> 00:17:04.109
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00:17:04.109 --> 00:17:07.789
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00:17:07.789 --> 00:17:11.329
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00:17:11.329 --> 00:17:15.089
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00:17:15.089 --> 00:17:18.230
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00:17:18.230 --> 00:17:20.990
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00:17:36.130 --> 00:17:40.309
.com slash bee love and use code bee love at

00:17:40.309 --> 00:17:44.529
checkout. Tropy mites were considered not to

00:17:44.529 --> 00:17:47.369
be something that we needed to worry about in

00:17:47.369 --> 00:17:50.589
the US. And one of the reasons for that is because

00:17:50.589 --> 00:17:53.970
they don't seem to be able to survive in a temperate

00:17:53.970 --> 00:17:55.809
environment. They don't seem to be able to deal

00:17:55.809 --> 00:17:57.950
with the winter. Any period of time where the

00:17:57.950 --> 00:18:00.009
bees are not producing brood, tropy mites are

00:18:00.009 --> 00:18:02.150
supposed to be dead within 48 hours because they

00:18:02.150 --> 00:18:04.490
can only feed on brood and they can't live longer

00:18:04.490 --> 00:18:08.390
than that without a meal. Well... That left us

00:18:08.390 --> 00:18:09.789
with the impression that they would never be

00:18:09.789 --> 00:18:12.089
able to cross the ocean because we're not gonna

00:18:12.089 --> 00:18:15.930
bring entire colonies across the ocean and so

00:18:15.930 --> 00:18:19.809
we should be fine, right? Well, there's that

00:18:19.809 --> 00:18:24.210
very strange happening last year where a boat

00:18:24.210 --> 00:18:28.359
that was on its way from South Asia to the east

00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:32.660
coast of the United States had a swarm of honeybees

00:18:32.660 --> 00:18:35.319
on the mast of the ship, and in that swarm of

00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:37.980
honeybees there were quite a few tropemites that

00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:41.779
were alive almost two weeks after this ship had

00:18:41.779 --> 00:18:45.549
set sail. no access to brood. And so their capacity

00:18:45.549 --> 00:18:50.049
to either feed on adult bees or to somehow manage

00:18:50.049 --> 00:18:52.529
their metabolism and slow it down in such a way

00:18:52.529 --> 00:18:55.150
that they can travel long distances is something

00:18:55.150 --> 00:18:57.670
that we were not ready for because some of the

00:18:57.670 --> 00:18:59.509
information that's available to us is simply

00:18:59.509 --> 00:19:02.730
inaccurate. And we have to do a better job of

00:19:02.730 --> 00:19:05.410
making sure that we are involved in some of the

00:19:05.410 --> 00:19:07.230
research that's going on so that we can better

00:19:07.230 --> 00:19:09.309
understand these creatures and make sure that

00:19:09.309 --> 00:19:13.599
we are managing the scientific integrity of some

00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:15.700
of these questions being asked and these studies

00:19:15.700 --> 00:19:18.799
being conducted. Help us be ready so that once

00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:21.759
they hit we've got a plan in place. That is the

00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:24.140
goal. I don't want to be caught like Australia

00:19:24.140 --> 00:19:27.039
was when Varroa hit. For those that don't know,

00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:29.539
and no offense I love our friends in Australia,

00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:32.380
we have a lot of listeners down there, but there

00:19:32.380 --> 00:19:35.980
was panic and burning hundreds of thousands of

00:19:35.980 --> 00:19:39.000
hives and Hopefully we're going to be more better

00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.859
prepared than that. But a minute ago, you also

00:19:41.859 --> 00:19:44.660
mentioned being on top of Varroa. So give us

00:19:44.660 --> 00:19:48.809
a few insights there. Okay, so Varroa mites are

00:19:48.809 --> 00:19:51.750
weird, weird little parasites. They attach themselves

00:19:51.750 --> 00:19:55.230
to the underside of bees and they liquefy a very

00:19:55.230 --> 00:19:57.349
important organ, the fat body in the bees, which

00:19:57.349 --> 00:20:00.309
is the bees liver. And if you think about the

00:20:00.309 --> 00:20:02.369
wonderful things that your liver does for you,

00:20:02.549 --> 00:20:05.869
it's really important that you continue to have

00:20:05.869 --> 00:20:08.269
one. It detoxifies toxic things that get into

00:20:08.269 --> 00:20:11.109
your body like alcohol, but tons of other toxic

00:20:11.109 --> 00:20:13.690
things that get into your body. It's also an

00:20:13.690 --> 00:20:16.519
important site of the synthesis of protein. in

00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:19.160
your body that are important for making you you

00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:21.700
because most of you is made of protein so the

00:20:21.700 --> 00:20:23.920
liver is really important and when these mites

00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:28.319
feed on bees they are unfortunately really dampening

00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:31.420
the bees ability to deal with all kinds of stress

00:20:31.420 --> 00:20:35.039
stress from toxic chemicals like pesticides stress

00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.539
from just aging and their their ability to repair

00:20:38.539 --> 00:20:40.480
the damage that happens to your body as you age

00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:43.059
you need proteins for that Additionally, they

00:20:43.059 --> 00:20:45.240
are a huge issue for the bee's immune system

00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:47.660
because the proteins that protect the bees from

00:20:47.660 --> 00:20:50.480
infection, the antimicrobial peptides, are made

00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:53.680
by the fat body, by the bee's liver. And so when

00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.240
these mites feed on the bees, there's this double

00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:59.680
whammy of them knocking out so many of the systems

00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:02.220
that are important for the bees, but also injecting

00:21:02.220 --> 00:21:05.960
viruses into the bee's body. And even by feeding,

00:21:05.980 --> 00:21:08.279
they allow for the entry of bacteria that isn't

00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:10.980
directly vectored, but still a huge problem for

00:21:10.980 --> 00:21:12.920
the bees. because their immune system has been

00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:15.539
so severely dampened. And so you end up in a

00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:18.559
context where the bees are just really sick as

00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.180
a result of these mites. And then we have the

00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:23.019
chemicals that they're exposed to in the environment,

00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:26.500
which are now much more dangerous to them. And

00:21:26.500 --> 00:21:28.339
then we have the viruses and everything else

00:21:28.339 --> 00:21:31.160
that are a huge problem for them as well. So

00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:34.180
these mites, they are the linchpin for so many

00:21:34.180 --> 00:21:36.960
problems that our bees are dealing with. And

00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.940
if we don't get a handle on the mites, I dare

00:21:39.940 --> 00:21:42.279
say we are never truly going to get a handle

00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:45.819
on maintaining good honeybee health. Amen to

00:21:45.819 --> 00:21:49.140
all that. Okay. I get to ask you something controversial

00:21:49.140 --> 00:21:53.000
now. Get ready. Okay. What's up? All right. Cause

00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:54.980
lots of things in beekeeping are controversial

00:21:54.980 --> 00:21:57.680
for some reason. One of the things I love about

00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:00.259
beekeeping is the old, you know, the old joke

00:22:00.259 --> 00:22:03.559
about ask 10 beekeepers. Yeah. Oh, I won't even

00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:07.160
get into that. When I started beekeeping, I was

00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:10.680
taught about the sugar roll test to test for

00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:14.970
Varroa. And the last few years. All the really

00:22:14.970 --> 00:22:16.990
smart people have been telling me, you have to

00:22:16.990 --> 00:22:19.210
do an alcohol wash, it's much more accurate,

00:22:19.390 --> 00:22:22.829
blah, blah, blah. Okay, and I'm watching Secrets

00:22:22.829 --> 00:22:26.349
of the Bees, and what is Dr. Sadme doing? Sugar

00:22:26.349 --> 00:22:30.829
roll, baby! Sugar roll, please explain. I will.

00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:34.480
So, I understand that the sugar roll alcohol

00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:36.480
wash back and forth has been contentious for

00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:39.279
some time now, and I do not disagree that the

00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:42.559
expert opinion is that the alcohol wash is more

00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:45.619
accurate. That is true. But you don't always

00:22:45.619 --> 00:22:49.119
need 100 % accuracy to know what you're working

00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:51.640
with. And you always have to consider what are

00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:55.039
you sacrificing to get that accuracy? So there

00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:57.759
was another controversial opinion that came out

00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:00.980
during the COVID -19 pandemic where there were

00:23:00.980 --> 00:23:03.519
some researchers who were saying PCR is more

00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:05.559
accurate. That doesn't mean you should use it.

00:23:05.950 --> 00:23:09.029
PCR is so accurate that it can pick up on tiny

00:23:09.029 --> 00:23:11.329
little bits of the virus after the virus itself

00:23:11.329 --> 00:23:13.529
has been destroyed, little bits and pieces of

00:23:13.529 --> 00:23:15.250
it that are still scattered around your body

00:23:15.250 --> 00:23:18.170
that your biochemical cleanup crew is constantly

00:23:18.170 --> 00:23:21.309
working on getting rid of. That stuff can then

00:23:21.309 --> 00:23:24.250
trigger those PCR tests and leave you with the

00:23:24.250 --> 00:23:26.390
impression that you still have an infectious

00:23:26.390 --> 00:23:29.849
COVID -19 situation going on when you actually

00:23:29.849 --> 00:23:35.200
don't. So the most Accurate isn't always the

00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:37.700
thing that you need to go with if there's a drawback

00:23:37.700 --> 00:23:39.799
that counteracts the importance of that accuracy.

00:23:40.220 --> 00:23:44.730
For me, there is a drawback to the way that we

00:23:44.730 --> 00:23:49.130
need to consistently gauge our honey bees' mite

00:23:49.130 --> 00:23:52.289
loads, we do so much research on Varroa mites

00:23:52.289 --> 00:23:55.269
that sometimes we're gauging their mite loads

00:23:55.269 --> 00:23:59.190
like maybe even more than once per week and collecting

00:23:59.190 --> 00:24:01.730
mites from these different colonies. And so an

00:24:01.730 --> 00:24:04.950
alcohol wash would sacrifice 300 bees every time.

00:24:05.049 --> 00:24:08.029
And we do not want to do that when our colonies

00:24:08.029 --> 00:24:11.119
are growing. Sometimes we need to to be able

00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:13.519
to conduct research on these bees put them back

00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:15.940
into the colony covered in sugar and yes, they

00:24:15.940 --> 00:24:20.319
are a little Jostled for the experience haven't

00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:22.880
been shaken up and covered in particulate matter

00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:25.339
but they get cleaned up and they survived the

00:24:25.339 --> 00:24:28.500
experience and While there is some evidence that

00:24:28.500 --> 00:24:29.839
you know, they're a little bit worse for the

00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:31.839
wear They survived the experience and seemed

00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:34.019
to be just fine and able to continue their work.

00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:38.859
So if you are conducting infrequent alcohol washes,

00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:41.380
you're probably not going to do anything to your

00:24:41.380 --> 00:24:43.119
colony that's going to counteract the fact that

00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:44.980
that's the most accurate way to do it. But the

00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:47.039
thing is, the sugar shake is accurate enough

00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:50.259
that not sacrificing those bees in the process

00:24:50.259 --> 00:24:52.640
is one of the most important things for us as

00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:54.539
we consider which one we're going to choose.

00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:58.240
I am so glad to hear that because that's exactly

00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:01.079
what I was thinking. And so many people disagree

00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:04.759
with me. And I'm so glad to hear the doctor said

00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:08.460
it. I'm going to say Dr. Sammy says, and he knows

00:25:08.460 --> 00:25:10.460
a lot more than I do and a lot more than you

00:25:10.460 --> 00:25:14.779
do. He's your friendly neighborhood entomologist.

00:25:15.019 --> 00:25:17.579
Show me your PhD and then we'll, we'll talk.

00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:22.339
But I figure if my test is off by 20 or 10 or

00:25:22.339 --> 00:25:26.579
whatever percent. It doesn't matter because if

00:25:26.579 --> 00:25:29.859
I'm doing 300 B's and even that is not exactly

00:25:29.859 --> 00:25:33.200
accurate by the way. You know, I'm using a little

00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:39.579
half a cup measuring cup and I've got 10 or more

00:25:39.579 --> 00:25:42.539
mites in there. I know that's too many. I don't

00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:47.619
care if it's 10, 11, 20, 30, or 13 and a half.

00:25:47.700 --> 00:25:51.220
Exactly. But if I only see one, okay, I'm in

00:25:51.220 --> 00:25:54.220
pretty good shape. Exactly and it's when you're

00:25:54.220 --> 00:25:56.660
at the lowest threshold that you really want

00:25:56.660 --> 00:25:59.539
to do a couple of sugar shakes to make sure that

00:25:59.539 --> 00:26:01.960
you can then average in between. So we do three

00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:04.119
if something is at a fairly low threshold and

00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:06.259
we're trying to decide are we at two mites per

00:26:06.259 --> 00:26:08.420
hundred B or three mites per hundred B because

00:26:08.420 --> 00:26:10.759
three mites per hundred B is that treatment threshold

00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:13.400
and when you're at lower numbers that's when

00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:15.160
it matters the most. If you're starting to get

00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:16.960
up there in high numbers anyway and you're already

00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:19.220
at like five mites per hundred B in a sugar shake,

00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:23.180
treat! honey treat like there's no reason to

00:26:23.180 --> 00:26:24.960
be like oh let me do an alcohol wash because

00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:28.660
it'll be more accurate you already know like

00:26:28.660 --> 00:26:30.859
this is not a circumstance where you always need

00:26:30.859 --> 00:26:32.960
to know the exact number you just need to know

00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:35.980
if it's above or below a specific number a couple

00:26:35.980 --> 00:26:38.119
other quick things i know your time is limited

00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:41.420
today do you have any great advice for new beekeepers

00:26:41.420 --> 00:26:45.980
oh my gosh yes i have some great advice for new

00:26:45.980 --> 00:26:49.970
beekeepers so learn from people who have been

00:26:49.970 --> 00:26:52.829
doing this longer than you have. So I'll use

00:26:52.829 --> 00:26:55.230
my dad as an example. I love my dad so much.

00:26:55.269 --> 00:26:58.130
He is one of the coolest beekeepers that I know.

00:26:58.410 --> 00:27:02.490
He is also someone who, because he just doesn't

00:27:02.490 --> 00:27:05.309
really like crowds very much, he doesn't like

00:27:05.309 --> 00:27:09.369
to go to the beekeeping meetings. And the difficult

00:27:09.369 --> 00:27:11.809
part there that he's recognized is that in a

00:27:11.809 --> 00:27:15.420
lot of these meetings, they end up... telling

00:27:15.420 --> 00:27:17.359
you things that are going on in their colonies

00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:20.700
that can be so helpful for you in recognizing

00:27:20.700 --> 00:27:22.920
what's going on in your own colony. If you know

00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:24.920
people whose colonies are collapsing because

00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:27.180
of Varroa, you really need to be paying attention

00:27:27.180 --> 00:27:29.539
to your own. They live near you. And when those

00:27:29.539 --> 00:27:31.880
colonies collapse, those bees are going to try

00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:34.539
their absolute darndest to find another place

00:27:34.539 --> 00:27:36.259
to live out their usefulness for the rest of

00:27:36.259 --> 00:27:38.119
their lives. And unfortunately, they will take

00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:40.259
with them sinister hitchhikers that could collapse

00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:42.480
your colony. And if you're not paying attention

00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:44.710
and you think, oh, I treated my col - a month

00:27:44.710 --> 00:27:46.890
ago, there's no way it's above threshold. If

00:27:46.890 --> 00:27:48.470
you're not paying attention to the fact that

00:27:48.470 --> 00:27:50.369
other people's colonies around you were above

00:27:50.369 --> 00:27:52.789
threshold and collapsed, and you've got might

00:27:52.789 --> 00:27:55.029
immigration coming in that's causing problems,

00:27:55.650 --> 00:27:58.420
then... You might miss it and a lot of problems

00:27:58.420 --> 00:28:01.240
can happen as a result of that So I always tell

00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:03.299
beekeepers when you're getting started and even

00:28:03.299 --> 00:28:06.019
when you've been doing this for a long time The

00:28:06.019 --> 00:28:09.019
advice and information that's provided by other

00:28:09.019 --> 00:28:12.720
beekeepers is invaluable. It is a team Sport

00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:16.500
and trying to go it alone will always be to your

00:28:16.500 --> 00:28:20.599
detriment I also think that it is really, really

00:28:20.599 --> 00:28:23.779
useful as a beekeeper for you to also consider

00:28:23.779 --> 00:28:26.119
where you're getting your information from as

00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:28.759
it pertains to, you know, new management practices

00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:31.000
or treatment practices and so on, because not

00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:33.039
all information is created equal. There's a lot

00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:40.460
of weird. TikTok, Instagram, Facebook thrives

00:28:40.460 --> 00:28:44.619
on moving information forward regardless of its

00:28:44.619 --> 00:28:47.700
veracity. And so I have seen beekeepers that

00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:50.799
one of the most egregious ones was beekeepers

00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:54.759
who are replacing the cartridges from bed bug

00:28:54.759 --> 00:28:58.880
foggers and roach foggers with. think it was

00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:02.920
yeah oxalic acid yeah and it's not a good idea

00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:05.579
that is not what that system is designed for

00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:09.099
and can even result in some very flammable uh

00:29:09.099 --> 00:29:11.319
situations where you're shooting fire into your

00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:14.309
colony which will kill the mites. It will definitely

00:29:14.309 --> 00:29:17.130
kill the mites, but the colony itself is also

00:29:17.130 --> 00:29:18.990
not going to make it. So these are the kinds

00:29:18.990 --> 00:29:22.029
of things where I like for people to recognize

00:29:22.029 --> 00:29:24.049
the importance of working with other beekeepers.

00:29:24.789 --> 00:29:28.710
But my mom always says in a multitude of counselors,

00:29:28.869 --> 00:29:32.500
there's safety. in listening to a variety of

00:29:32.500 --> 00:29:34.480
different people and understanding, okay, I'm

00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:36.819
only hearing this from one person and I'm hearing

00:29:36.819 --> 00:29:38.680
a lot of other people saying like, oh no, that's

00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:41.140
a terrible idea. It might be worthwhile for me

00:29:41.140 --> 00:29:43.980
to investigate this idea a bit more firmly before

00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:46.960
I jump into trying this myself. And if I can

00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:50.119
just add to that, most beekeepers are really

00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:53.299
friendly and really want to help you. They're

00:29:53.299 --> 00:29:55.880
not going, oh, there's a new beekeeper. I'm going

00:29:55.880 --> 00:29:58.200
to give him some bad advice and he'll quit, you

00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:01.519
know. No, most of them really want to help. Yes,

00:30:01.579 --> 00:30:04.819
for sure. Last thing, my favorite part, I'm going

00:30:04.819 --> 00:30:07.259
to ask you, Dr. Sammy, do you have a wild and

00:30:07.259 --> 00:30:09.319
crazy beekeeping story you can share with us?

00:30:09.609 --> 00:30:12.750
Oh my goodness, I don't even have to think about

00:30:12.750 --> 00:30:15.710
that. I don't even have to think about that.

00:30:15.769 --> 00:30:18.309
I definitely have a wild and crazy beekeeping

00:30:18.309 --> 00:30:22.170
story for you. It's my go -to when I think about

00:30:22.170 --> 00:30:25.210
the crazy things that can go on when you're beekeeping,

00:30:25.309 --> 00:30:28.269
and you're new to it. When I was a new beekeeper,

00:30:28.670 --> 00:30:30.890
I was starting in Dennis Van Ingelsdorp's lab

00:30:30.890 --> 00:30:34.299
at the University of Maryland and... Everybody

00:30:34.299 --> 00:30:36.440
in that lab was bigger than me. I am a slight

00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:38.740
of frame human being and there were no extra

00:30:38.740 --> 00:30:42.380
small bee suits So I was going around in the

00:30:42.380 --> 00:30:44.640
shared bee suits of the lab all of which were

00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:48.220
large And so yeah I'm wearing a large bee suit

00:30:48.220 --> 00:30:50.680
and it kind of defeats the purpose when your

00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:53.079
bee suit is basically a tent that's open at the

00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:57.440
bottom and I felt this Tingle on my ear and some

00:30:57.440 --> 00:30:59.160
of you will know that back in those days I had

00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:01.619
pretty long hair and I was thinking all my hair

00:31:01.619 --> 00:31:04.319
is just gotten to this length is probably just

00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:07.160
my hair brushing up against my ear because that

00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:09.660
was a part of getting used to having longer hair.

00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:13.039
But then I felt something inside of my ear moving

00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:15.640
and I kind of freaked out a bit and realized

00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:19.380
there is a bee that has fully crawled into my

00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:22.339
ear canal. This is not good. It was able to walk

00:31:22.339 --> 00:31:25.200
right up my pants into my bee suit because it

00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:27.920
was so large and just walk right up and into

00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:30.380
my ear. And then I thought about it. And I thought,

00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:31.720
you know what? This bee is never going to leave.

00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:34.079
It's got everything it wants in there. It's got

00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:38.740
wax. It's about the same size as a cell. And

00:31:38.740 --> 00:31:41.339
it's dark in there. It's probably really enjoying

00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:44.640
this dark, warm, waxy space. And so I could feel

00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:47.279
it moving around inside of my head, just feng

00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:49.579
shui in my earwax. Every time it moved, I could

00:31:49.579 --> 00:31:52.160
hear it inside. I didn't like that. I didn't

00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:53.859
like that at all. I tried to flush it out with

00:31:53.859 --> 00:31:55.859
water at a water fountain. Don't do that, everybody.

00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:58.140
If ever this happens to you, the water will make

00:31:58.140 --> 00:32:00.420
it go farther inside. to get away from the water.

00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:03.539
That didn't work. Smoke, exact same situation.

00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:06.200
The smoker did not help. So I went to the hospital.

00:32:06.700 --> 00:32:10.220
I had an undergraduate drive me to the hospital.

00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:13.740
And at the hospital, the people were not taking

00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:16.019
me seriously when I said, I have a bee inside

00:32:16.019 --> 00:32:20.700
of my head. They're like, yeah, no, no, no, listen

00:32:20.700 --> 00:32:25.400
to me. I have a bee. inside of my head and I

00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:29.720
need it to not be inside of my head." They, you

00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:32.980
know, saw me flailing around with my hive tool

00:32:32.980 --> 00:32:34.619
and such and were like, oh no, this is probably

00:32:34.619 --> 00:32:38.220
real. So they take me back and this doctor says,

00:32:38.380 --> 00:32:40.099
don't worry, I can see it. She's showing a light

00:32:40.099 --> 00:32:42.339
in my ear. I've got some forceps, I'm gonna grab

00:32:42.339 --> 00:32:44.400
it. And I very forcefully said, you will not

00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.180
do that. you will definitely not do that they

00:32:47.180 --> 00:32:49.539
have a sting reflex if you grab it by its leg

00:32:49.539 --> 00:32:52.059
it's going to avert that stinger i am a vocalist

00:32:52.059 --> 00:32:56.160
i do not want um perforation of my eardrums do

00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:59.180
not grab it and she says okay well then what

00:32:59.180 --> 00:33:02.460
do you want me to do do you have those bulbs

00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:04.859
that you use to like get stuff out of a baby's

00:33:04.859 --> 00:33:08.220
ear If you could get that and fill it with some

00:33:08.220 --> 00:33:10.460
kind of oil, mineral oil, any kind of oil and

00:33:10.460 --> 00:33:12.740
then squirt that into my ear, maybe we can slide

00:33:12.740 --> 00:33:16.420
the bee out. And lo and behold, she was able

00:33:16.420 --> 00:33:19.119
to squirt some mineral oil into my ear. The bee

00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:22.779
slid right out after like two squirts and it

00:33:22.779 --> 00:33:25.400
had deformed wing virus and looked like a really

00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:27.480
sad little bee and it lived out the rest of its

00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:30.619
life on my desk. And I named her Beyonce. That

00:33:30.619 --> 00:33:33.529
is awesome. That is awesome. I'm not sure what

00:33:33.529 --> 00:33:36.750
we should learn from that, whether it keeps them

00:33:36.750 --> 00:33:39.230
in the... Wear bee suits that fit. I actually

00:33:39.230 --> 00:33:41.849
like them a little bit big. You're less likely

00:33:41.849 --> 00:33:44.950
to get stung through your arms and stuff, but

00:33:44.950 --> 00:33:47.490
it's the opening at the bottom that was the problem

00:33:47.490 --> 00:33:48.750
for you. That's the problem. If you're going

00:33:48.750 --> 00:33:51.109
to wear a big bee suit, then wear a belt, cinch

00:33:51.109 --> 00:33:53.789
that sucker, but don't just leave it open at

00:33:53.789 --> 00:33:55.569
the bottom. Well, you don't want them climbing

00:33:55.569 --> 00:33:59.769
up your pant leg either. No. That would be a

00:33:59.769 --> 00:34:02.920
more embarrassing emergency. room visit so no

00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:06.140
but seriously you can just someone could just

00:34:06.140 --> 00:34:08.900
take mineral oil and like pour a little in their

00:34:08.900 --> 00:34:11.559
ear and that would probably do it yeah you want

00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:13.300
to use a little force with it you want that bulb

00:34:13.300 --> 00:34:15.500
that can squeeze the mineral oil in because you

00:34:15.500 --> 00:34:17.960
got to flush the bee out but yeah it works great

00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:19.739
because they can't maintain adequate purchase

00:34:19.739 --> 00:34:22.480
to keep walking around they kind of slide and

00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:24.579
so they slide right out of your ear I was thinking

00:34:24.579 --> 00:34:26.159
you were gonna say some kind of little teeny

00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:29.880
vacuum to suck it out. I think I would have enjoyed

00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:31.719
that sensation very much. But yeah, that might

00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:34.719
have been helpful. Yeah. Anyway, hey, Dr. Sammy

00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:37.699
Ramsey, I appreciate your time so much. Thank

00:34:37.699 --> 00:34:40.099
you for being with us. Of course. And if anybody

00:34:40.099 --> 00:34:43.239
has not seen Secrets of the Bees yet, check it

00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:46.119
out. It's amazing. It is the number one stream

00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:48.280
thing on the Disney platform right now, which

00:34:48.280 --> 00:34:50.539
is huge because there's a lot of incredible content

00:34:50.539 --> 00:34:54.170
there. And that is just... Such an amazing review

00:34:54.170 --> 00:34:56.570
of my documentary is to just see that so many

00:34:56.570 --> 00:34:58.610
people are loving it. So don't be left out. Check

00:34:58.610 --> 00:35:02.230
this thing out. And listen for his singing. Yeah,

00:35:02.550 --> 00:35:04.630
yeah, definitely. In both episodes, you can hear

00:35:04.630 --> 00:35:09.789
me singing. Thanks again for joining us on Be

00:35:09.789 --> 00:35:12.869
Love, Be Keeping presented by Manlike. Another

00:35:12.869 --> 00:35:15.610
big thank you goes to V2B Health for their support.

00:35:16.179 --> 00:35:19.159
Vita's Varroa Control Ranger products includes

00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:23.360
Epistan, Epigard, and now Varroxan Extended Release

00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:26.940
Oxalic Acid Strips. Hey, thanks a lot guys. And

00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:29.539
if you haven't yet, please subscribe to and follow

00:35:29.539 --> 00:35:31.800
the show, tell your friends about it, and click

00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:35.079
on over to BeLoveBekeeping .com to sign up for

00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:38.280
our free newsletter. If you have a guest suggestion

00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:41.380
or topic you'd like discussed on the show, shoot

00:35:41.380 --> 00:35:44.900
me an email, eric at BeLoveBekeeping .com. And

00:35:44.900 --> 00:35:47.360
remember, if you're not just in it for the honey

00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:50.440
or the money, you're in it for the love. See

00:35:50.440 --> 00:35:51.139
you next week.