21,000+ Bee Colonies Removed & Saved

WEBVTT

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In a world brimming with complexity, few creatures

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embody harmony like the honeybee. With tireless

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precision, she dances from bloom to bloom, each

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motion guided by millennia upon millennia of

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instinct, each act in service to the whole. And

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then... There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards

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of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,

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part poet, they move along their hives with the

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efficiency of mow, levy, and curly, tending to

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the bees' needs as best they can comprehend,

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and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the

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Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing

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like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their

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journey. Welcome, welcome to Bee Love Beekeeping

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presented by our good friends over at Man Lake.

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Today we'll be discussing bee removals from a

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safe and gentle approach. We'll also touch on

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Africanized bees and the business of bee removals.

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And of course an amazing wild and crazy beekeeping

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story. But first let's take just a minute to

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recognize everyone out there working on new creative

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ways of dealing with Varroa mites. Last week's

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episode included a conversation on what I like

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to call Varroa birth control. This week in the

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news I found a Florida teenager who's invented

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a way to use CO2 to kill Varroa in a hive without

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hurting the bees. He's already tested it across

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60 hives and found it to be safe, effective,

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and even beneficial to the bees. His device is

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designed to fit onto a standard beehive and connect

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to a regulated carbon monoxide tank. A custom

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airtight lid distributes a carefully controlled

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concentration of the CO2 through the hive. The

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gas moves downward through the stacked boxes,

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exposing the bees and mites to the treatment.

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Now you have to realize honey bees are able to

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withstand a high amount of CO2 for a short amount

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of time, but Varroa can't. And because the gas

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dissipates rather than leaving a chemical residue,

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the approach really could offer beekeepers a

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cleaner alternative to a lot of the traditional

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mite treatments out there. As an added benefit

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these treated colonies also showed an increased

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honey production and improved overall hive health

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compared with colonies exposed to conventional

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chemical treatments. I have seen a bunch of other

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new methods out there they all have a lot of

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potential. Some include using heat to a specific

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point that kills Varroa, but not high enough

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to kill the bee brood. Another one that fogs

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bees with ionized essential oils. The list goes

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on and on. Hey, everybody, let's keep it up.

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This is a battle we will win. I'd like to welcome

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our very special guest today, Bee Man Dan, coming

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to us from Southern California. How are you,

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Dan? I'm great. Thanks for having me. Or to keep

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it short, do I call you be man or be your man?

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Dan's fine. Any and all of the above. Well, I

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tell you, we're going to get into all kinds of

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things you and your company do be removals, and

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we're going to be talking about that and many

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other things. But I'm going to jump right in

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with the thing that drew me to you. made me want

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to reach out to you and that was a comment that

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I saw you make online the other day about how

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you don't need to put a queen in a hive for the

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rest of the bees to follow. Now we're talking

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about when we're doing swarm removal or some

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kind of a bee removal. It's assumed and nearly

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everything that you see on YouTube I'll say people

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are saying hey I catch the queen I stick her

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in a box and then all the rest of the bees march

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right in. And you're saying, hmm, maybe not necessarily.

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So please explain. Yeah, this is from, I think

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to date, my team's rescued over 21 ,000 colonies

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and I'm batting this year. I'm going to break

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probably 6 ,500 removals myself. And I've just

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been able to see the bees from a slightly different

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perspective from what people are accustomed to.

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And the first time it happened, it was in Claremont

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down in San Diego. I got the swarm and then I

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was on the same adage that I have to find the

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queen, right? But all the bees cruised, it was

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on this little rose bush on the ground. So all

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the complications of the process went away. So

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I put the box down, the bees ran into the box

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and the queen was probably the last, maybe 10

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bees that were still on the rose bush. And that

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was the very first time I witnessed this. This

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was probably 15 years ago. And I'm like, huh,

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that's weird. And so it just kept happening every

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once in a while. Not all the time because I couldn't

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always find the queen. Didn't always see her.

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So I flipped the script on it a bit because we

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had to train beekeepers. Sorry, we didn't train

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beekeepers. I just grabbed guys randomly off

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the street per se. We were trying to fill numbers

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and get some warm bodies to work. And I had to

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figure out how to do it methodically. that didn't

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take five hours to do like a shed where we can

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get it down to like two hours with a very methodical

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process. So it came about that we literally kidnapped

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the babies. The brood, I got flame for that one

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too. So I call them babies because it's easier

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to talk to clients that way, is they understand

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babies, grab the babies, bees follow the babies,

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queen follows the bees. And that works every

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single time. like 99 % of the time. But seriously,

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I got flamed for calling them babies. I know

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there's no babies, but for people who relate

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to, it's just the easiest thing that everyone

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can understand. I've made the mistake of calling

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them being born, things like that, so it's okay.

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Right. And it's fine. I mean, we're all friends

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here and we're talking about the same thing.

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And if you talk about brood, then you might also

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have to talk about... eggs and larvae and all

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these other things. Exactly. But do you find

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that capped brood work the best or any stage

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along the way? It's a great question. I go for

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capped brood. I call them shelf stable. Where

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in Southern California we're subject to temperatures,

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the bees, as you know, need a consistent at least

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over 85 degrees or so to stay warm to incubate.

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So what I found is when you chill the brood too

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much during removal, There's a point where the

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brood won't stay alive. So if you grab the young

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Lara, they literally die because it's too cold.

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And then the whole hive just up to guns. They're

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like, screw this, we're out of here because one

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is too much. It's too stressful. And the second

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factor is they're trying to keep too much going

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on. Try and keep all the babies warm. And then

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when the babies die, then there's a point where

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they can't clean down enough and they'll just

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bounce. And so I found that we need to get fresh

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eggs. and cat brood and literally nothing in

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between. And then the bees are going to follow.

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They're going to fan some pheromones telling

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all the rest of the bees, follow us, follow us.

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And then you just see the queen in there someplace

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just marching along with everybody else. Yeah.

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So that video you saw was me talking to the client

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and I'm videoing it for them so that they can

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see up close what's going on. And I didn't see

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the queen in the video because I was busy yapping

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with them. And I only saw her when I was taking

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the video. That's why I cut it off at like 30,

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33 seconds because I just got the footages I

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wanted, which was to watch the bees cruise in.

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But when I reviewed and started to do the video

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edit, then I'm like, oh, Queen's there. Let's

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post it. Why not? Now, for somebody less experienced

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that maybe has a hard time spotting a queen or

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is busy talking to somebody or busy keeping people

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away or something like that. Is there a point

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where you could just assume the queen has made

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it in? Yeah. Or do you need to take the box apart

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and look all over for her to make sure? I honestly

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never, I literally never looked for her after

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the first, after my conclusion that the bees

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don't follow the queen, then it opened my perspective

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completely to where I don't even bother looking

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for her. And she only comes out when she wants

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to, and I'm good with that. But the idea is...

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So long as you eliminate the reason that they

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would go, let's say a shed. So if you're working

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on a shed, you cut it open, you cut out all the

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brood, the babies, move that into your box, and

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now you've eliminated their shed, their former

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home as a source for going back to, then it kind

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of ushers them into some other spot, which would

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be where the babies are. And basically, I'm just

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eliminating their home as being a factor. And

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if you can get like 99 % of the bees flying around,

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it's pretty good odds that you have the queen.

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Oh, yeah. Now, with that many removals, how many

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people work for you? What size of business is

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this? At our peak, we had probably 21, 22 employees.

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Right now, I'm running nine, but they're more

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specialized, they're smarter, better looking.

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Okay. Yeah. No, so back when... I never wanted

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employees, I honestly never wanted to grow this

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business the way it has. But I realized that

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in order for me to have impact and in order for

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me to convince the extermination guys locally

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to stop killing bees, I need to have an alternative.

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And we needed to be a proof of concept that bees

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can be saved instead of just exterminated. And

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so we probably subcontract for at least a dozen

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pest control companies that don't want to kill

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bees anymore. So they refer to us. But you can't

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be just some Yahoo in his garage touting, gotta

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say, the bees when you have nothing to demonstrate

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or give them something substantial to work with.

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And if it's as a solo guy, I realized I capped

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out at how many rescues I can do a year. And

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that's not significant enough if we're actually

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going to do something for the bees. At first,

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it was just something cool to do. I was playing

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with bugs and climbing trees and stuff like that.

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And then I realized that I had a bigger calling.

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And in order to have a big calling, I needed

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a bigger team. And so I at some point had 21

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guys, but I would rotate them, two people per

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team. But this is, again, I had no idea what

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I was doing, no idea about employees and stuff

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like that. But now the teams are just super,

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super dialed in and focused, and I'm good with

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that. All right. Here's something else that may

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just in a little bit of a way blow people away.

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Your website mentions gentle hands -on approach

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and no bee vacuums. Yep. So how do you get everything

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out of a wall, a ceiling, or whatever without

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a bee vacuum? So I was trained by Daoist and

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Buddhist monks for beekeeping. So the approach

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was a little bit different. And I think you had

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touched upon this question. But so my instructor,

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he didn't train me like, here are the techniques.

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Here's what you do specifically. But the Taoist

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way is experiential. And the concept is, it applies

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to the golden rule of life, is do unto others

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as you want, done unto yourself. If I were a

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bee, how would I want to be handled through this

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process? And it's not through a vacuum. That

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spurred me on this journey to literally, we have

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zero vacuums, unless it's to pick up trash, but

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vacuums are allowed and they're not even allowed

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as a secondary backup option because I refuse

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to give into that. And so every so 21 ,000 removals

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has been completely by hand. And by doing that,

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by forcing us not to have that option, it really

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taught us to pay attention to how they behave,

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how they respond without coercing them, but to

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encourage them to go from one place to another.

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So it literally goes back to what I was saying

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is grab the babies, bees will follow the babies

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and then queen follows the bees. and that works

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very methodically. Tell me more about that Daoist

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philosophy. It's finding our place with nature.

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The Daoist philosophy is balance and harmony

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within our surroundings and being stewards instead

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of keepers. The animals don't need us to keep

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them. My cat doesn't really need me, my dog doesn't

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really need me, and the bees don't need us. but

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we're working with them in a relationship. And

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if you're having a relationship with somebody

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or something, then you have to treat that as

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if we're buddies, right? You and I are humans

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and we have a sort of respect for each other

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and we work with each other in a way that should

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extend to all life forms that we have within

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our sphere of influence, if that kind of makes

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sense. Yeah. What do you say we just throw out

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the term beekeeper, come up with something new?

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Stewardship. Be steward? Yeah. My instructor

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calls us either stewards of the animals or land

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steward. And so my house here, I'm just steward

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of this land for as long as I'm alive. And my

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job is to make sure it's better than how I found

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it. Now with that many hundreds and thousands

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of removals then and with this whole approach

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and I love this approach by the way it's fantastic

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I mean it just fits what we talk about on this

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show it's about the love of the bees which means

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respect and and other things what do you do with

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the bees after they're removed from somebody's

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home shed whatever fantastic question so from

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there they literally go into my garage for half

00:14:36.389 --> 00:14:39.129
a day And so the rescues from yesterday were

00:14:39.129 --> 00:14:41.809
picked up by my beekeeper this morning. And then

00:14:41.809 --> 00:14:44.190
he's going to take them to one of our apiaries

00:14:44.190 --> 00:14:47.450
where we have all the rescues come in. And they're

00:14:47.450 --> 00:14:49.350
kind of pampered there. They're fed. They're

00:14:49.350 --> 00:14:52.190
housed. We do inspections afterwards, make sure

00:14:52.190 --> 00:14:55.809
they're viable. And we take really diligent notes

00:14:55.809 --> 00:14:58.470
on all of our colonies. So we note their temperament.

00:14:58.669 --> 00:15:01.789
We note the brood, how well they're doing. Queen,

00:15:01.870 --> 00:15:05.730
no queen. Verified, I should say. And from there,

00:15:05.769 --> 00:15:08.379
then we... find backyard beekeepers or other

00:15:08.379 --> 00:15:11.039
farmers to take him in. So we just stocked up

00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:14.100
a farm up in Lake Elsnor, I'm sure you're not

00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:17.419
familiar, but up north of Temecula, but he has

00:15:17.419 --> 00:15:19.259
a bunch of winter melons and a bunch of other

00:15:19.259 --> 00:15:22.639
squash and whatnot. So we got probably eight

00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:25.860
colonies out to him. We tried to find a good

00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:28.899
balance where we're not taking so many bees out

00:15:28.899 --> 00:15:31.639
that we need to feed them. So if we have to feed

00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:33.480
them, in my opinion, you shouldn't touch their

00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:36.019
honey. And so we have them in these places where

00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:38.720
we can find an equilibrium where they can sustain

00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:41.379
themselves and not overcompute with the natives

00:15:41.379 --> 00:15:44.759
and everyone's happy and we're creating good

00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:47.779
ecosystems instead of lopsided, whatever you

00:15:47.779 --> 00:15:50.019
want to call it. Let's shift a little bit, talk

00:15:50.019 --> 00:15:53.600
about Africanized bees. I've spoken with other

00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:57.220
beekeepers in Southern California. The consensus

00:15:57.220 --> 00:15:59.340
that I'm getting, and tell me if this is your

00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:03.159
opinion or not, is that pretty much all of the

00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:06.299
honeybees in Southern California are some kind

00:16:06.299 --> 00:16:10.740
of a mixture, a natural hybrid with some Africanized

00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:15.120
genes in our regular European honeybees. Is that

00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.940
what you're finding also? Yeah. And we got reached

00:16:18.940 --> 00:16:22.500
out by UCSD for genetic research on the bees

00:16:22.500 --> 00:16:27.419
because we have such a unique tabs on where we

00:16:27.419 --> 00:16:29.419
get our bees. So not just San Diego, we cover

00:16:29.419 --> 00:16:31.840
Orange County, Riverside, pretty much all Southern

00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:34.909
California. So I was talking with Boris out in

00:16:34.909 --> 00:16:37.809
UCR, but he wanted what he called our survivor

00:16:37.809 --> 00:16:41.389
bees. I recently had two people on the show from

00:16:41.389 --> 00:16:43.990
UC Riverside. Oh, nice. When I was just looking

00:16:43.990 --> 00:16:47.250
up their names, Genesis Chung and Owen Wagner,

00:16:47.629 --> 00:16:51.110
they're doing some research on these, they just

00:16:51.110 --> 00:16:53.730
call them Southern California bees. They are

00:16:53.730 --> 00:16:57.620
finding that they're more Varroa resistant. than

00:16:57.620 --> 00:17:00.279
most regular European honeybees around the country.

00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:03.200
So anyway, I didn't know if you had anything

00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:07.240
to do with that or not. Yeah, not those. So Boris,

00:17:07.420 --> 00:17:11.119
when he first got imported to the university,

00:17:12.019 --> 00:17:14.799
he wanted the survivor bees. He called them survivor

00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:17.599
bees, and I love the term because they're unmanaged.

00:17:18.220 --> 00:17:21.000
And usually we try to find them old colonies

00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:24.160
and really, really gentle temperament. So we,

00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:25.740
I think we supplied him with, I think it was

00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:28.240
ended up being 33 colonies. He found that they

00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:31.039
were more varroa resistant and they were thriving,

00:17:31.420 --> 00:17:33.299
but they can still be docile and gentle at the

00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:35.839
same times. But sooner or later, one of them

00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:39.200
might turn a little ornery. He said, and don't

00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:41.539
quote me on this one, but he was saying that

00:17:41.539 --> 00:17:44.099
50 % of their genetics is probably mixed with

00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:46.839
Africanized genes. And so they're all, in my

00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:49.680
opinion, they're all hybridized. Quick break

00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:53.099
to discuss what just might be on your mind. Right

00:17:53.099 --> 00:17:56.420
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00:17:56.420 --> 00:17:59.220
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00:17:59.220 --> 00:18:01.759
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00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:04.900
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00:18:04.900 --> 00:18:08.380
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00:18:20.299 --> 00:18:23.259
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00:18:23.259 --> 00:18:25.460
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00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:29.140
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00:18:29.140 --> 00:18:32.500
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00:18:50.509 --> 00:18:52.690
I forgot the number, somewhere between 14 and

00:18:52.690 --> 00:18:56.069
18 different species from around the world. And

00:18:56.069 --> 00:18:58.630
so they're all mixed anyways. I don't know if

00:18:58.630 --> 00:19:02.089
you remember, probably like 13, 15 years ago,

00:19:02.470 --> 00:19:05.589
you would see really pure strains of bees that

00:19:05.589 --> 00:19:08.549
were brought in, like the Italians that were

00:19:08.549 --> 00:19:12.950
just golden, golden, yellow, orange. And nowadays

00:19:12.950 --> 00:19:16.089
people classify them as Italians, but they look

00:19:16.089 --> 00:19:18.589
nothing like what I remember. I wonder if we

00:19:18.589 --> 00:19:22.569
can still get any of those more pure genes or

00:19:22.569 --> 00:19:26.049
if we want to. It sounds like nature is taking

00:19:26.049 --> 00:19:29.549
care of some issues all by herself and I'm talking

00:19:29.549 --> 00:19:32.269
about Varroa and other things and sometimes we

00:19:32.269 --> 00:19:37.529
need to forget us beekeepers who maybe aren't

00:19:37.529 --> 00:19:40.970
the best bee stewards ought to take a step back

00:19:40.970 --> 00:19:44.069
and let bees take care of bees. Yeah, that's

00:19:44.069 --> 00:19:46.869
why I love the ferals. I work exclusively with

00:19:46.869 --> 00:19:49.970
ferals and I swear by them, but they are just

00:19:49.970 --> 00:19:53.450
so hardy and like any of our hives we never medicate,

00:19:53.529 --> 00:19:55.990
we don't treat them for anything. Sometimes we'll

00:19:55.990 --> 00:19:58.750
have to intervene with like recently I had one

00:19:58.750 --> 00:20:02.930
calling get wiped out by hive beetles. But outside

00:20:02.930 --> 00:20:05.410
of that, most of the time if you give them good

00:20:05.410 --> 00:20:08.569
land, good areas, and all the resources they

00:20:08.569 --> 00:20:11.549
need, boxes, bees before expansion, they generally

00:20:11.549 --> 00:20:15.430
do just fine. I can't tell you how many colonies

00:20:15.430 --> 00:20:17.750
that we literally will set on a person's property

00:20:17.750 --> 00:20:20.450
and go back years later and they're just fine,

00:20:20.650 --> 00:20:22.549
just peachy. Probably not whatever beekeeper

00:20:22.549 --> 00:20:24.390
wants to hear, but... You have great weather

00:20:24.390 --> 00:20:27.190
down there for that too, right? I mean, they

00:20:27.190 --> 00:20:30.970
have at least some forage all year long. They

00:20:30.970 --> 00:20:34.650
have water all year long. It's not minus 10 degrees

00:20:34.650 --> 00:20:38.309
outside and that kind of stuff. Helps, but it

00:20:38.309 --> 00:20:42.019
can also help Varroa if... if the bees don't

00:20:42.019 --> 00:20:45.420
know how to deal with it. So yeah, keep learning.

00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:48.819
Let the bees be bees. So as part of your business

00:20:48.819 --> 00:20:53.119
or just your personal beekeeping, are you also

00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:56.000
managing a bunch of colonies, harvesting honey,

00:20:56.460 --> 00:20:59.440
or do you just focus on bee rescue? Probably

00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:03.920
99 % of our work is bee rescue. And then we do

00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:06.460
have clients that, you know, invariably we do

00:21:06.460 --> 00:21:08.730
the rescue. and then they want to keep the bees

00:21:08.730 --> 00:21:10.690
and so we'll take on those clients and then we

00:21:10.690 --> 00:21:14.269
have probably the most the biggest conversion

00:21:14.269 --> 00:21:17.930
that we get for beekeeping is usually when the

00:21:17.930 --> 00:21:21.089
bees turn aggressive or they get Africanized

00:21:21.089 --> 00:21:23.950
and then they call us because they need someone

00:21:23.950 --> 00:21:28.170
to tag in and don't tell them Eric but probably

00:21:28.170 --> 00:21:31.809
80 % of those are just fine uh it's just a matter

00:21:31.809 --> 00:21:34.109
of not working with them properly or not I guess

00:21:34.109 --> 00:21:36.390
approaching it not smoking them enough or whatever

00:21:36.390 --> 00:21:39.210
it is or getting too gruff with them, and that's

00:21:39.210 --> 00:21:41.529
usually what upsets them. So we end up taking

00:21:41.529 --> 00:21:43.450
those clients on because they're like, ooh, this

00:21:43.450 --> 00:21:46.069
is crazy. This is great. But for us, it's just

00:21:46.069 --> 00:21:50.349
another Tuesday or Thursday. Today happens to

00:21:50.349 --> 00:21:53.349
be Thursday, the day that we're recording. And

00:21:53.349 --> 00:21:55.890
a lot of people would just say, oh, it's a hot

00:21:55.890 --> 00:21:59.690
hive. Squish that coin, replace her. And you're

00:21:59.690 --> 00:22:01.430
saying a lot of the time that doesn't need to

00:22:01.430 --> 00:22:05.230
happen. Not so much. It's for also, you know,

00:22:05.309 --> 00:22:09.269
we're responsible. So. My take on training our

00:22:09.269 --> 00:22:12.730
beekeepers is that we're suited up, we're fine,

00:22:13.289 --> 00:22:14.789
but it has everything to do with what happens

00:22:14.789 --> 00:22:17.589
afterwards. Like when some of our clients will

00:22:17.589 --> 00:22:20.869
disturb a hive and it will get calls for, hey,

00:22:20.910 --> 00:22:23.950
I've got bees flying all over my yard. We tracked

00:22:23.950 --> 00:22:26.230
this one down. It happened to be one of our clients,

00:22:26.710 --> 00:22:29.549
but they had done an inspection of the backyard.

00:22:30.210 --> 00:22:33.349
We got a call from a house, 10 houses down. about

00:22:33.349 --> 00:22:36.150
them getting mauled in their backyard and they

00:22:36.150 --> 00:22:39.150
were panicking. But when I drove through the

00:22:39.150 --> 00:22:41.829
street, I'm like, oh, I know exactly what happened.

00:22:42.849 --> 00:22:45.230
So during their inspection, things went chaotic.

00:22:45.930 --> 00:22:48.029
And then the whole neighborhood just got tagged

00:22:48.029 --> 00:22:52.029
by bees. And that's not good. So. No, your neighbors

00:22:52.029 --> 00:22:55.150
can really turn on you that way. Yeah. The HOA

00:22:55.150 --> 00:22:58.289
can put in new rules and all kinds of stuff when

00:22:58.289 --> 00:23:01.250
that happens. I just talked to somebody last

00:23:01.250 --> 00:23:07.359
week. just a friend that was saying her husband

00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:10.440
gets stung every time he goes out and mows the

00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:13.559
lawn. Well, their next door neighbor, and these

00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:16.779
are small, you know, 0 .2 acre lots or whatever,

00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:19.740
their next door neighbor has bees, has had bees

00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:22.839
for a long time, but recently moved the bees

00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:25.440
right over so they're next to the fence with

00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:28.819
this neighbor. Right. And we all know how much

00:23:28.819 --> 00:23:31.200
bees love internal combustion engines. Yeah.

00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:35.740
Yeah, the ferret. She's like, well, what can

00:23:35.740 --> 00:23:38.799
he do? First of all, talk to the neighbor. If

00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:40.700
the neighbor is a jerk, there's not that much

00:23:40.700 --> 00:23:44.640
you can do except start off with buying an electric

00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:46.940
mower and put a bee suit on when you're out mowing.

00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:50.980
Unfortunately, the guy's allergic and so he has

00:23:50.980 --> 00:23:54.759
to do something. But it's just a reminder for

00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:57.819
all the beekeepers, especially in suburban areas.

00:23:58.379 --> 00:24:01.220
Just be a good neighbor. Yeah, you know, we don't

00:24:01.220 --> 00:24:04.140
need the bad reputation and for for the bees

00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:06.559
to have the bad reputation That's actually how

00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:09.240
we got started. This was 20 years ago I bought

00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:12.279
a house in Escondido and I didn't know at the

00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:15.460
time but Sorry, I was a young homeowner. So I

00:24:15.460 --> 00:24:18.160
was 24 You don't know what you're looking for

00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:20.180
and you don't know what you're doing. So I bought

00:24:20.180 --> 00:24:23.700
the house It was a fixer -upper, but apparently

00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:25.859
came with a beehive in the shed and I didn't

00:24:25.859 --> 00:24:29.319
notice that So they were probably a couple years

00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:32.339
old at that point. We got visited by code enforcement

00:24:32.339 --> 00:24:35.259
because some person was walking their dog and

00:24:35.259 --> 00:24:38.359
got stung. And so it became this whole dealio.

00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:41.119
It's in Eskandio, it's illegal to have bees anywhere

00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:43.660
on property of man -designed mites. They don't

00:24:43.660 --> 00:24:47.619
really care. So they came out probably two times,

00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:48.920
slapping on the wrist a little bit. I'm like,

00:24:49.059 --> 00:24:51.349
whatever. I'm 24, so I didn't really care. And

00:24:51.349 --> 00:24:53.730
you're not keeping them on purpose. No. Yeah.

00:24:54.750 --> 00:24:56.710
My take on it is they moved in naturally. So

00:24:56.710 --> 00:24:59.369
what am I supposed to do? Again, I'm 24, knock

00:24:59.369 --> 00:25:02.150
the head. They sent the sheriff. So sheriff came

00:25:02.150 --> 00:25:05.549
out with a subpoena. It was $2 ,000 or jail time

00:25:05.549 --> 00:25:09.309
or get the bees out. So I had my buddy from the

00:25:09.309 --> 00:25:11.529
Kung Fu school where I learned all the beekeeping.

00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.500
So he had a mentor who was doing commercial beekeeping

00:25:15.500 --> 00:25:17.859
came out, did the removal. I didn't see much.

00:25:17.980 --> 00:25:20.460
I was standing like 20 feet away, but I just

00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:22.119
thought it was coolest thing in the world. So

00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:24.700
I asked him if I can tag along with them. I grabbed

00:25:24.700 --> 00:25:27.859
myself a veil, some gloves, and then I just never

00:25:27.859 --> 00:25:30.480
stopped. By the way, you just uttered a line

00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.039
we've never heard on this show before. And that

00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:35.299
is Kung Fu school. That's where I learned all

00:25:35.299 --> 00:25:38.029
my beekeeping. Yeah, and you probably won't hear

00:25:38.029 --> 00:25:41.630
that much. No, that's an unusual one. Congratulations.

00:25:42.089 --> 00:25:44.930
Thanks. So I've been studying White Tiger Kung

00:25:44.930 --> 00:25:47.690
Fu for the last 20 years. Our system is half

00:25:47.690 --> 00:25:50.750
Taoist, half Buddhist with origins going back

00:25:50.750 --> 00:25:56.210
to ancient China. But we learn herbology, meditations,

00:25:56.430 --> 00:25:59.630
folklore. And so my instructor, the reason why

00:25:59.630 --> 00:26:02.049
I got into it was we couldn't find good honey

00:26:02.049 --> 00:26:06.210
locally. And my instructor uses it for tonics

00:26:06.210 --> 00:26:10.190
for basically herbal Chinese medicines, but all

00:26:10.190 --> 00:26:13.430
we could find was really horrible honey mixed

00:26:13.430 --> 00:26:16.009
with high fructose orange syrup or just off flavors

00:26:16.009 --> 00:26:18.230
and tastes. I think the worst one we sampled

00:26:18.230 --> 00:26:21.109
tasted just like car exhaust. We got into beekeeping

00:26:21.109 --> 00:26:24.009
for that and then that just kind of snowballed

00:26:24.009 --> 00:26:26.650
from there. So it'll probably be another podcast

00:26:26.650 --> 00:26:29.009
itself, but we can talk about meditations, vibrations

00:26:29.009 --> 00:26:31.119
with the bees. When we're working with the bees,

00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:33.480
especially with heated hives, to be able to calm

00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:36.019
them down and keep them pretty mellow is kind

00:26:36.019 --> 00:26:39.039
of my cheat code. Yes, I'd love to do a whole

00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:42.940
episode on it. But give us just the overview.

00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:47.380
How do you calm a hive? The idea is you've seen

00:26:47.380 --> 00:26:50.680
Tai Chi guys, like old people doing Tai Chi in

00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:53.700
the park and stuff like that. It's slow, meditative.

00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:56.240
And if you're talking about vibration, it's a

00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:59.039
really low base, kind of like petting a cat.

00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:01.160
So when you're petting a cat, it's somewhere

00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:04.460
between 80 and 150 Hz. And the bees, typically

00:27:04.460 --> 00:27:08.259
when they're calm, they're at roughly 330 Hz

00:27:08.259 --> 00:27:11.240
or so, give or take like 50. But when the bees

00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:13.900
are at that state, they're calm, everything's

00:27:13.900 --> 00:27:17.039
good. When they agitated, they spiked that up,

00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:19.339
and now there are a little higher vibration.

00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:23.059
But if you can emulate a lower vibration, they'll

00:27:23.059 --> 00:27:25.420
pick up on that vibe and meet you somewhere halfway

00:27:25.420 --> 00:27:28.220
in between. So instead of being ultra pissy,

00:27:28.329 --> 00:27:30.190
they'll just bring down, they'll tone it down

00:27:30.190 --> 00:27:32.289
to where they're manageable. So that's the low

00:27:32.289 --> 00:27:36.250
down. I love that. I tell new beekeepers, think

00:27:36.250 --> 00:27:40.549
of Tai Chi. No fast sudden movements and just

00:27:40.549 --> 00:27:44.990
me personally. When I go out to the apiary, I've

00:27:44.990 --> 00:27:48.289
had a busy, crazy day. So I'm hobby beekeeper.

00:27:48.430 --> 00:27:50.650
I'm not doing this all day, every day. When I

00:27:50.650 --> 00:27:53.009
go out to see the bees, I want everything to

00:27:53.009 --> 00:27:57.200
be calm. Mm -hmm, and I and I remind myself when

00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:01.200
I get maybe 20 feet away. Okay stop I'm gonna

00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.660
take a minute. I'm gonna breathe. I'm gonna settle

00:28:04.660 --> 00:28:09.059
myself down Lower my vibration. I think you know,

00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:13.000
I I don't know exactly where I'm at, but I Just

00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:17.019
breathe and be calm and when I'm ready Then I

00:28:17.019 --> 00:28:20.599
approach the bees they appreciate it. Absolutely

00:28:20.599 --> 00:28:24.210
100 % only on board that A quick little fun thing

00:28:24.210 --> 00:28:27.509
is the Indian monks, when they're learning chanting

00:28:27.509 --> 00:28:30.490
and meditations, they would sit with the bees

00:28:30.490 --> 00:28:34.470
to learn to emulate that vibration. So like the

00:28:34.470 --> 00:28:38.670
Om chanting, the Om, if they can't nail it, they

00:28:38.670 --> 00:28:41.609
just need to mimic the bees to get the similar

00:28:41.609 --> 00:28:44.549
status, status. And if they can do that long

00:28:44.549 --> 00:28:46.329
enough, then they literally become one with the

00:28:46.329 --> 00:28:49.970
bees and it's all peaceful. I never saw that

00:28:49.970 --> 00:28:54.519
on the old Kung Fu TV show. No. Now I assume

00:28:54.519 --> 00:28:58.700
that vibrational thing also we know just by listening

00:28:58.700 --> 00:29:02.819
because when they're upset that tone goes up

00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:06.960
which means the vibration is rising and it means

00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:11.819
okay you know now if you lift the lid and that

00:29:11.819 --> 00:29:14.940
tone goes up quickly you know something's going

00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:17.980
on now you have a choice you can smoke the crap

00:29:17.980 --> 00:29:20.720
out of them which I'm not a big fan of personally

00:29:21.919 --> 00:29:25.319
Or you can deal with them however you choose

00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:28.119
to, or you can shut the lid and go back the next

00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:30.500
day. Maybe they'll be in a better mood, or maybe

00:29:30.500 --> 00:29:33.319
you'll be in the right frame of mind that they're

00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:36.119
dealing with you better. That's exactly it. Sometimes

00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:38.779
it's one, sometimes the other. Part of my thing

00:29:38.779 --> 00:29:41.339
about smoke, by the way, is I live in an area

00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:43.859
that's a really high wildfire danger and so I

00:29:43.859 --> 00:29:47.670
have to be super, super careful of it. And like

00:29:47.670 --> 00:29:50.309
this year, I just can't use a smoker in the summer.

00:29:50.349 --> 00:29:52.930
It's just the way it is. So I have to learn how

00:29:52.930 --> 00:29:55.289
to deal without it. Okay, a couple of things

00:29:55.289 --> 00:29:58.289
before I let you go. One, save the bees on your

00:29:58.289 --> 00:30:01.650
t -shirt. Where does that come from? Back when

00:30:01.650 --> 00:30:03.950
hashtags first popped out, this was the first

00:30:03.950 --> 00:30:06.369
thing I used for all of our... This is before

00:30:06.369 --> 00:30:08.609
I knew anything about anything, but for Instagram,

00:30:08.849 --> 00:30:11.569
that's what I used for all of our stuff was save

00:30:11.569 --> 00:30:15.920
the bees. Can we still find you there? Maybe.

00:30:16.220 --> 00:30:18.160
I don't think they use hashtags as much, but

00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:22.220
we also stop using it. So you'll see it pop up

00:30:22.220 --> 00:30:25.119
every once in a while, but we played around with

00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:27.279
the algorithm and you know how that works. And

00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:29.480
by the way, YouTube channel, you've got over

00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:32.920
500 videos if people want to look at them. We'll

00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:34.880
stick a link to your website or to there down

00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:36.940
in the show notes for people. Appreciate it.

00:30:37.099 --> 00:30:40.480
Before I let you go. Our listeners know everybody

00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:43.200
that comes on gets to talk about one or two of

00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:45.799
their favorite wild and crazy beekeeping stories.

00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.859
Dan, doing removals, you must have a million

00:30:48.859 --> 00:30:51.819
of them. Do you have any that stand out? Yeah,

00:30:51.980 --> 00:30:54.200
probably my iconic one was done in Claremont

00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:57.440
as well. This was an owl box. I think it was

00:30:57.440 --> 00:30:59.799
like 50 feet up. This is before I had measuring

00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:02.660
tools, but it was probably 50 feet up in a tree.

00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:07.500
And it was a present from her husband. and I

00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:09.819
kid you not maybe a month later after they got

00:31:09.819 --> 00:31:13.160
installed bees moved into the damn thing and

00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:15.559
she didn't want to leave it there so she called

00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:19.180
us. So I took my 32 foot ladder and strapped

00:31:19.180 --> 00:31:22.180
it against the tree and I lashed it so it was

00:31:22.180 --> 00:31:25.019
vertical. The worst part is the guy I took with

00:31:25.019 --> 00:31:28.000
me was scared of heights so he was completely

00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.019
useless. He was just on ground support. He literally

00:31:31.019 --> 00:31:33.099
did nothing besides making sure the ladder didn't

00:31:33.099 --> 00:31:36.640
fall over. 32 foot ladder goes straight up I

00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:40.339
lasted the tree and I was still like 15, 20 feet

00:31:40.339 --> 00:31:43.180
away from the actual box. And so I took a bunch

00:31:43.180 --> 00:31:45.339
of two by fours and I started drilling those

00:31:45.339 --> 00:31:48.380
into the tree with lag screws. They weren't even

00:31:48.380 --> 00:31:50.779
lag screws. I didn't know anything at the time.

00:31:51.140 --> 00:31:53.859
So there were literally like three screws. That

00:31:53.859 --> 00:31:56.220
was what I was depending my life on. So I just

00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:57.839
screwed those into the tree and then started

00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:01.700
climbing this to the nearest upper branch. And

00:32:01.700 --> 00:32:04.200
finally got to the top of it and strapped it

00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:06.400
to, it would, these luckily were super chill.

00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:08.579
The best part is there was a photo of me from

00:32:08.579 --> 00:32:12.359
the side profile from the guy, Trent. And I was

00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:16.339
so high up in the tree. Sent to my mom. You know,

00:32:16.380 --> 00:32:19.019
her only comment was the neighbors have a really

00:32:19.019 --> 00:32:24.680
cool backyard. So my, my classic hashtag is don't

00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:27.059
tell mom when I do something really sketchy.

00:32:27.099 --> 00:32:29.740
But that was, that's probably the dumbest one

00:32:29.740 --> 00:32:31.740
I've ever done in my life. Don't you ever need

00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:33.859
one of those scissor lifts or whatever they call

00:32:33.859 --> 00:32:37.619
those things to get way up high safely? Safely

00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:40.160
nowadays with you know being more experienced

00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:42.240
I can demand that but when you're first starting

00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:44.480
out back in the day you can't demand someone

00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:47.420
to get a crane or a lift or whatever it is and

00:32:47.420 --> 00:32:49.759
unfortunately this one was in the far backyard

00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:52.500
I don't think cranes exist this high or long

00:32:52.500 --> 00:32:55.859
but we just had to mainly do it but nowadays

00:32:55.859 --> 00:33:02.160
we typically if it's questionable I'm like, I

00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:04.740
think we'll do some smart things today and get

00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:07.380
a lift versus climbing and doing dumb stuff.

00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:10.680
But they're still fun. What are some of the laws

00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:13.200
like in Southern California? Do different cities

00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:16.960
have different laws? Is it okay to exterminate

00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:20.940
a hive? So as a blanket for Southern California,

00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:25.240
they restricted the use. So when we first heard

00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:28.380
it, we thought it was no extermination whatsoever.

00:33:28.700 --> 00:33:30.660
but they can exterminate with four different

00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:33.440
chemicals that just don't last as long. So I

00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:36.359
remember I was working at Poway School District

00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:39.319
and this was before we had the count. I've had

00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:42.480
the count for eight years and they had a swarm

00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:46.180
move into this little pillar and all the kids,

00:33:46.319 --> 00:33:48.859
all the teachers started freaking out because

00:33:48.859 --> 00:33:53.160
the bees started dying in the walkway and they're

00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:56.380
crawling 15, 20, 50 feet away. And just, you

00:33:56.380 --> 00:33:58.480
know, you've seen the videos of how they're dying,

00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:01.019
like thousands of them all over the ground. So

00:34:01.019 --> 00:34:03.599
they call us in panic, we head over. But mind

00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:06.099
you, they hadn't exterminated in at least eight

00:34:06.099 --> 00:34:08.460
years. So whatever chemical they had inside,

00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:11.460
the bees swarmed into it. Once we opened it up,

00:34:11.619 --> 00:34:14.280
there was old honeycomb where they sprayed and

00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:16.739
that stuff was still viable, is still active.

00:34:16.820 --> 00:34:19.260
And so it killed on contact and the bees were

00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:22.119
just getting slaughtered out over. So now as

00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:24.159
a compromise, they're only allowed to use chemicals

00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:26.980
that will degrade in like one month or three

00:34:26.980 --> 00:34:29.039
months. And that's typically how their warranty

00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:31.679
is. But they're still legal. It's still legal

00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:35.880
to kill them. Do some of the cities have ordinances

00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:39.300
that make it OK to keep bees and some not? You

00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:42.179
mentioned one where it's not legal. Yeah, the

00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:45.219
Orange County Beekeeping Association, Liz Savage,

00:34:45.380 --> 00:34:48.840
she's a really she's a beast. So. She goes to

00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:51.539
all the advocate meetings and really spearheads

00:34:51.539 --> 00:34:55.000
making it legal to have bees. So she made Fullerton

00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:58.699
legal, Costa Mesa, I think legal. A couple others,

00:34:58.699 --> 00:35:01.579
but she's, she's made it a point to make sure

00:35:01.579 --> 00:35:04.380
that people can have them in the cities. Instead

00:35:04.380 --> 00:35:07.260
of saying, yo, there's a blanket one, uh, just

00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:10.199
the restrictions were changed. At one point it

00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:12.559
was 50 feet away from your neighboring property.

00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:15.659
And now I think it's down like 15 or 25, but

00:35:15.659 --> 00:35:18.550
it's a much more reasonable that. People in the

00:35:18.550 --> 00:35:20.389
backyard can have it at least in the middle of

00:35:20.389 --> 00:35:22.570
the yard and that's that's pretty good by my

00:35:22.570 --> 00:35:25.949
book And most of the ones that I've seen in these

00:35:25.949 --> 00:35:29.449
suburban areas limited to one or two hives You

00:35:29.449 --> 00:35:31.329
know, I mean who would want to move 20 hives

00:35:31.329 --> 00:35:33.909
in anyway in their backyard, but somebody might

00:35:33.909 --> 00:35:38.409
if it's Somebody might if it's not illegal if

00:35:38.409 --> 00:35:40.650
you don't have neighbors 10 feet away. Anyway,

00:35:40.730 --> 00:35:43.110
I'm gonna let you go. I have one last question

00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:45.699
And I wish I had a better way of asking this.

00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:48.960
Dan, I just feel like you have so much knowledge

00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:51.980
and wisdom in all of this that I haven't even

00:35:51.980 --> 00:35:54.619
asked all the right questions. So my last question

00:35:54.619 --> 00:35:58.460
for you is just drop a little wisdom bomb on

00:35:58.460 --> 00:36:02.940
us here before we go. I always say to help the

00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:06.260
planet, help the bees is just to go play with

00:36:06.260 --> 00:36:10.179
them. And if not, grow a garden. And if we can

00:36:10.179 --> 00:36:13.789
grow gardens, grow veggies, grow trees. be connected

00:36:13.789 --> 00:36:15.949
with nature again. Most of our problems kind

00:36:15.949 --> 00:36:18.409
of go away because we've outsourced our food

00:36:18.409 --> 00:36:22.610
to commercial ag, and we want almonds, we want

00:36:22.610 --> 00:36:25.670
avocados, we want oranges cheaply all year round,

00:36:26.050 --> 00:36:27.789
and so this is the price we have to pay for it.

00:36:28.150 --> 00:36:32.010
But if we can get connected back to nature, the

00:36:32.010 --> 00:36:34.309
way I see it is out of sight and out of mind.

00:36:34.869 --> 00:36:38.190
So people turn a blind eye to all the horse poop

00:36:38.190 --> 00:36:41.190
that happens in our agricultural system. because

00:36:41.190 --> 00:36:43.530
they're not the ones out there doing it. Like,

00:36:43.550 --> 00:36:45.489
we raise our own meat rabbits, our own chickens,

00:36:45.610 --> 00:36:48.070
and stuff like that, and I will dispatch them

00:36:48.070 --> 00:36:49.929
and go through the process of it. So there's

00:36:49.929 --> 00:36:53.050
a very intimate connection with nature when you're

00:36:53.050 --> 00:36:55.190
going through the whole life cycle, making sure

00:36:55.190 --> 00:36:57.269
they had a good life, making sure that they were

00:36:57.269 --> 00:37:02.570
peaceful during the process. And that really

00:37:02.570 --> 00:37:06.289
opens the mind to really appreciating all the

00:37:06.289 --> 00:37:08.679
things that happens behind the scenes. And so,

00:37:08.900 --> 00:37:10.599
but as simple as when people don't have their

00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:12.519
own gardens, they're not out there. They don't

00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:15.460
care about people spraying. It's just words,

00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:18.079
right? It's just, they just heard that this is

00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:20.539
bad for them versus I'm not going to want to

00:37:20.539 --> 00:37:22.559
touch that tomato because I just sprayed a bunch

00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:24.980
of crap on there. And that becomes now a real

00:37:24.980 --> 00:37:29.320
thing versus a distance thing. And that's probably

00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:32.880
my only takeaway from all this growing on food.

00:37:33.619 --> 00:37:35.940
Perfect. B -Man Dan, thanks a lot for being on

00:37:35.940 --> 00:37:37.900
the show. Thanks, Eric. Appreciate you, sir.

00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:43.420
Thanks again for joining us on B -Love Beekeeping

00:37:43.420 --> 00:37:46.429
presented by Man Lake. Another big thank you

00:37:46.429 --> 00:37:49.530
goes to Vita B Health for their support. Vita's

00:37:49.530 --> 00:37:52.710
Varroa Control Ranger products includes Epistan,

00:37:52.869 --> 00:37:57.150
Epigard, and now Varroxan Extended Release Oxalic

00:37:57.150 --> 00:38:00.110
Acids Trips. Hey thanks a lot guys. And if you

00:38:00.110 --> 00:38:02.590
haven't yet, please subscribe to and follow the

00:38:02.590 --> 00:38:04.789
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00:38:04.789 --> 00:38:08.150
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00:38:08.150 --> 00:38:11.110
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00:38:11.110 --> 00:38:14.230
or topic you'd like discussed on the show, shoot

00:38:14.230 --> 00:38:19.679
me an And remember, if you're not just in it

00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:22.360
for the honey or the money, you're in it for

00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:23.980
the love. See you next week.