Removing Varroa Mites from Honey Bees Without Chemicals

WEBVTT

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in a world brimming with complexity few creatures

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embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless

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precision she dances from bloom to bloom each

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motion guided by millennia upon millennia of

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instinct each act in service to the whole and

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then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards

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of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,

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part poet, they move along their hives with the

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efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to

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the bees' needs as best they can comprehend,

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and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the

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Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing

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like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their

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journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love Beekeeping

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presented by our great friends and partners in

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beekeeping. Man Lake. Today we're traveling to

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Gloucestershire, England to have a conversation

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with a beekeeper slash inventor who's created

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a chemical -free way to help bees get rid of

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varroa mites. This is pretty cool. But first

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it's time for our inside the hive feature presented

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by Primal Bee. We talk a lot about how bees stay

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warm in winter, but what about when it's 100

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degrees outside and there are babies in there

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that can die if they're overheated? Turns out

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bees basically invented air conditioning. Here's

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how they do it. First, water foragers fly out

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and collect water from wherever they can find

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it. You know where they go, puddles, creeks,

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bird baths, or swimming pool. They bring it back

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and spread thin films of it across the comb.

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Then hundreds of bees line up, fan their wings

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in a coordinated pattern, creating airflow that

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evaporates the water and pulls heat out of the

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hive. Same principle as sweating. It's evaporative

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cooling invented by insects millions of years

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before we even figured it out. On really hot

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days you'll see bees hanging on the outside of

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the hive in what beekeepers call bearding. It

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looks kind of alarming but they're actually helping.

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You see fewer bodies inside means less heat for

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the cooling crew to deal with. All of this takes

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energy and worker hours that could be going towards

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foraging and making honey. Temperature management

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isn't just a winter problem, it's an all year

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round situation. Next time on Inside the Hive,

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we'll get into why bees build comb in the weirdest

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places and what they're actually trying to tell

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you. Now let's go across the pond and have a

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great discussion with our inventor friend, Stuart.

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I'd like to welcome our very special guest to

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the show today, Stuart Rohith. Did I pronounce

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that right? You got it right. Good. Well, here's

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the part I'm going to pronounce wrong. You're

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from Gloucestershire. Got that right too. Yes.

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All right. Over in England, we'll clear across

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the pond today and welcome, welcome. It's good

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to see you. Thanks. Good to be here. We're going

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to be talking about all kinds of things today,

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including your invention, the Bee Gym. which

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is very cool. I saw it at Appamondia a few months

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ago. But you know what? Let's talk beekeeping

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first and then we'll get into this cool thing.

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Give me just a little bit of background, Stuart.

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How'd you get going in beekeeping and what do

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you love about it? Well, I was completely new

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to beekeeping in 2012 and I was making a little

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film with some some kind of underprivileged kids

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in the East End of London. They're called NEETs,

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they're not in education, employment or training.

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And this company called The Golden Company, we're

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training them up as beekeepers to give them some

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responsibility, you know, teach them some skills.

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So I was making a film about these young people

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from my website, Bright Green Kids. I did an

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extended interview with, I think it was a 13

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-year -old beekeeper called Abe. And he was so

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knowledgeable on the subject. And I was really

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intrigued by what he was saying, because I showed

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some interest in what he was saying. His father,

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who is an experienced beekeeper, his name's Peter

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Buckhoek, he sort of showed up at my doorstep

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two weeks later. And you've probably had this

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sort of thing yourself. He showed up with a little

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cardboard box with some holes in the top, a little

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warm cardboard box. It was a small swamp. And

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he said he knew I was interested in, and in the

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back of the car, he had a little meek box. So

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he said, this is the best way to get into beekeeping

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is to make a fast start. And I mean, that would

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be difficult in a way, but he became my mentor

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answering lots of my questions on the subject.

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And he kind of oversaw all my little problems

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in the first year and gave me lots of advice.

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So yeah, that's how I made a start. What do you

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love about it? Did you get hooked on it? Yeah,

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I I got hooked on beekeeping I got hooked in

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the sense of I just find the life of the colony

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Absolutely fascinating. So I was reading a lot

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of books I think the first book I read was by

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Butler and it's called the world of the honeybee

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and it's a very unassuming title, but it's brilliantly

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written with some fantastic insights, especially

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into the life of the Queen. As a first book to

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introduce you to the subject, it's just ideal.

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I've never lost that fascination. I don't think

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I'm your typical beekeeper in the sense that

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I don't want 20 hives or 100 hives in the yard.

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I think I'll always be a beekeeper, but I just

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find it so fascinating. Two or three hives is

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plenty for me because as we know it's really

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time -consuming But I just love to watch them.

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We actually had a sunny day believe it or not

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two days ago in Gloucestershire. We had 16 degrees

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Celsius Which I'm not very good at converting

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into Fahrenheit a nice sunny day. So t -shirt

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weather I Opened up a hive in the garden for

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the first time and it's just so joyful seeing

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them at this time of year. They're looking really

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good. They built up much more than I thought

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they would, because we've had quite a long, damp,

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cold winter. And it's a joyful experience. I

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love the smells. I love getting the smoke going.

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I love the smells of harvesting wax and honey.

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It's just fantastic. But yeah, I don't think

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I'll ever be... commercial beekeeper in any sense

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at all? That's okay. A lot of us love to stay

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a hobbyist where we can just enjoy it and not

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have it be a business and really spend time with

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the bees. And when you're a commercial beekeeper,

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yeah, it becomes a business. And they're great

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people and a lot of them love their bees too,

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but it's it's wham -bam. We've got to keep moving

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here quickly. Yep, and not so much time to enjoy

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it. So by the way 16c is about 60 degrees Fahrenheit

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That was either done in my brain or Google one

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or the other I'll let you decide so along your

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journey at some point you run into this horrible

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thing called varroa mites and Your thought is

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I know Instead of bombing them with chemicals,

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I'm going to figure out how to get those darn

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mites off the bees. So tell us a little bit about

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what you came up with. Well, this is a long story.

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Um, but it started with one of these young beekeepers

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I was working with was telling me about Puroa

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and he showed me a bee actually on a flower with

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a Varroa mite on its back. So there must've been

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quite a serious infestation in one of the hives

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nearby, because you don't tend to see Varroa

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mites on the back of bees very often. I was absolutely

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blown away by the relative size of the mite in

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relation to the bee. I was just thinking, I'd

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assumed that it was barely visible to the naked

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eye. I just thought, nobody's going to enjoy

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putting basically a sort of insecticide into

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a box full of insects. And even these young beekeepers

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were saying that, you know, it's really problematic.

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It's the side of beekeeping that they don't really

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want to have to deal with, you know, becoming

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an expert in miticides. I was just thinking,

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like immediately I did have a gut feeling that

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there must be some mechanical way of separating

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the mite from the bee. My first approach was

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to put a an entrance over the hive. So a sort

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of restriction over the entrance, which meant

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that any bees coming and going from the hive

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just had a very, very fine thread, which is actually

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made of cotton, which was suspended. There was

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a bunch of them, like a kind of violin bow, suspended

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in the entrance of the hive, allowing a small

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gap. So every time a bee came and went, one of

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these threads would be pulled along its back.

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and that meant if there was a mite on the bee's

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back it could be pulled off. It was incredibly

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successful in a way because the day after we

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trialled it there was 172, sorry, 119 mites in

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the little collection tray underneath. I didn't

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know enough about the subject to realise that

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that was a big strong hive in September with

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a big mite population inside. So the results

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are not remarkable, but it was really interesting,

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like a really good start, and it certainly gave

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me a lot of enthusiasm to carry on. And various

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bee inspectors, their interest was piqued as

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well. So I made quite a few of these kind of

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entrance traps and handed them out to bee inspectors

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in England, getting really good feedback from

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them. But I mean, sorry, this goes on and on

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and on, I'm afraid. The most useful feedback

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was that actually the real problem is that the

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mites are holding on underneath the bee's abdomen.

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The bee has protective plates under its abdomen

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and the mites do an amazing job of tucking in

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under these plates. I've actually taken a bee

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with a mite on it and taken a mascara brush and

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tried to brush one off. And it's incredible how

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well those little Varroa mites hold on in that

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position. So I guess that's partly their success,

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but certainly not the success of my invention

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because it wasn't targeting those mites at all.

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And also it's a problematic idea. I mean, what

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happens with the drones and the queens if there's

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a restriction over the entrance? So yeah, but

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it did get me thinking and it led to the next

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idea Well, it's also not getting to the nurse

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bees because they're not flying in and out the

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entrance With the bees that were coming in was

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it also pulling off the pollen? No, it wasn't

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actually because the This kind of violin bow

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affair was only running over their backs So it

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didn't cause a problem from that point of view.

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But as you say, it doesn't target the nurse bees

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which we know are much more likely to have those,

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they call them phoretic mites, don't they? They're

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much more likely to have the mites attached to

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them. I mean, it was an interesting start. And

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what it led to was that I noticed, I was doing

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a lot of video at the time, and I noticed that

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quite a few of the bees seemed to go through

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underneath my kind of violin bow type thing repeatedly.

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They go through turn around come back out upside

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down and I was thinking oh they seem to be quite

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enjoying this So I made a version that was completely

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voluntary so they could come and go as they want

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or they could go and use the the kind of restricted

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entrance and Loads of the bees were using the

00:13:34.470 --> 00:13:37.269
restricted entrance. So I was thinking this is

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really interesting. They seem to be grooming

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or attempting to groom off these rower mics.

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And that was the kind of a start that led me

00:13:45.460 --> 00:13:50.559
into the various versions. And that's a super

00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:54.080
interesting behavioral thing that I had not really

00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:56.919
heard of before, and that is that they, I don't

00:13:56.919 --> 00:13:59.480
know, they get some kind of enjoyment out of

00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:04.440
a tool that helps them groom. Yeah. I mean, cows

00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:08.340
be the same thing. You often see And it's becoming

00:14:08.340 --> 00:14:12.139
more popular. You see in a milking parlour, when

00:14:12.139 --> 00:14:15.820
the cows come in, I've noticed that the dairy

00:14:15.820 --> 00:14:20.500
hands attach brushes and these kind of rubbery

00:14:20.500 --> 00:14:23.340
spikes and things to the wall of the milking

00:14:23.340 --> 00:14:25.539
parlour, and the cows just go and have a really

00:14:25.539 --> 00:14:28.159
good scratch on them. Yeah, we just don't think

00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:32.159
about that with little bugs, though. So that's

00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:34.679
really interesting. OK, so that led to the next

00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:37.200
step. Yeah, I mean, one thing about honeybees

00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:42.539
is that everyone is always telling me how intelligent

00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:45.620
they are, and they can do all these tricks. Scientists

00:14:45.620 --> 00:14:48.360
do all these studies and get them to, you know,

00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:51.679
tell the difference between this button and that

00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:53.620
button, and they get a sugary treat or whatever.

00:14:54.059 --> 00:14:57.500
So it's not a quantum leap to imagine that they

00:14:57.500 --> 00:15:00.279
might want to go and scrap chop a parasol. Okay.

00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:05.120
Well, what came next? What came next was a much

00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:09.279
smaller version of the idea that was inside the

00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:12.600
hive. Because I was thinking if there's a voluntary

00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:17.019
aspect to this, if the bees want to go and have

00:15:17.019 --> 00:15:19.779
a scratch and hopefully rid themselves of some

00:15:19.779 --> 00:15:24.279
Varroa, then it doesn't have to be compulsory.

00:15:24.379 --> 00:15:26.740
It doesn't have to be a sort of entrance restriction.

00:15:27.460 --> 00:15:29.879
Are you planning on expanding your apiary this

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00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:55.039
that's PrimalBee .com slash Bee Love and use

00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:59.039
discount code Bee Love at checkout. So I made

00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:03.649
a version of what I produce now. a basic version

00:17:03.649 --> 00:17:06.390
of the kind of square B -Gym that sits on the

00:17:06.390 --> 00:17:09.390
floor of the hive. And then we started doing

00:17:09.390 --> 00:17:13.609
various trials to see what effect it was having.

00:17:14.309 --> 00:17:17.289
Well, let's fast forward to the finished products

00:17:17.289 --> 00:17:19.470
that you have now. Tell us what they are and

00:17:19.470 --> 00:17:21.710
how they work and what they look like. So there's

00:17:21.710 --> 00:17:24.829
two versions of the B -Gym at the moment. The

00:17:24.829 --> 00:17:30.230
first one is a square frame and it has various

00:17:30.230 --> 00:17:34.349
little plastic flippers, a little bit like fingernails

00:17:34.349 --> 00:17:37.630
that stick up from the surface of this square

00:17:37.630 --> 00:17:41.670
frame. It also has some little spikes on it and

00:17:41.670 --> 00:17:47.490
it also has some little wires and what I've observed

00:17:47.490 --> 00:17:51.970
and filmed, which I can show you the film of

00:17:51.970 --> 00:17:55.950
them using it, we've observed them going and

00:17:55.950 --> 00:17:59.269
having a scratch. Unfortunately I don't have

00:17:59.269 --> 00:18:03.529
the kind of million dollar shot of a bee kind

00:18:03.529 --> 00:18:07.849
of on one of these flippers, flipping off a Varroa

00:18:07.849 --> 00:18:10.710
mite that then sort of flies out of frame, you

00:18:10.710 --> 00:18:14.390
know, screaming. I don't have that shot. That's

00:18:14.390 --> 00:18:19.970
what AI is for. Yeah. Yeah, that is tempting,

00:18:19.970 --> 00:18:22.730
but you know, you've got to be completely honest

00:18:22.730 --> 00:18:26.690
in these things in my opinion. Yes. What I do

00:18:26.690 --> 00:18:31.619
have is a really interesting study. from 2016,

00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:38.019
which actually Vita did in Argentina. And what

00:18:38.019 --> 00:18:40.640
it shows is that that square version of the Bee

00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:45.019
Gym, when it was put into a controlled trial,

00:18:45.819 --> 00:18:49.559
it created a huge amount of Varroa mite drop,

00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:52.799
much more than the control hives. Statistically,

00:18:52.900 --> 00:18:57.000
it's really impressive. But the one thing that

00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:01.440
didn't go particularly well is that After the

00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:04.980
controlled trial, all of the hives were given

00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:09.740
a chemical shock. I'm not sure exactly with what

00:19:09.740 --> 00:19:13.759
might aside, but basically they were given a

00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:17.400
controlled chemical shock. All of the varroa

00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:20.779
mites were counted from the B -Gym hives and

00:19:20.779 --> 00:19:23.720
the control hives. And the B -Gym hives had produced

00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:27.920
a vast amount of mitre drop that was all counted.

00:19:28.259 --> 00:19:31.450
But what they hadn't really done... was solved

00:19:31.450 --> 00:19:35.230
the whole problem. It's almost as if the mites

00:19:35.230 --> 00:19:39.509
had started multiplying faster. So this was 2016,

00:19:40.450 --> 00:19:43.549
trialling the square version of the B -Gym. Really

00:19:43.549 --> 00:19:45.829
quite impressive results, except for the fact

00:19:45.829 --> 00:19:50.549
that it hadn't emptied the hive of Varroa mites.

00:19:50.849 --> 00:19:53.829
Yeah, so that was 2016. That's the square version

00:19:53.829 --> 00:19:57.589
of the B -Gym. After a lot of experimentation

00:19:57.589 --> 00:20:02.009
and trials, we came up with a much thinner, smaller

00:20:02.009 --> 00:20:05.109
version of the Bee Gym, which is basically a

00:20:05.109 --> 00:20:10.329
sort of a plate with various of these devices,

00:20:10.529 --> 00:20:13.750
especially these little flippers, which are like

00:20:13.750 --> 00:20:16.549
kind of flexible kind of fingernails in a long

00:20:16.549 --> 00:20:22.269
row. This plate is attached, it's suspended from

00:20:22.269 --> 00:20:27.500
the brood frames. down in amongst the combs in

00:20:27.500 --> 00:20:29.859
the brood box, partly for that reason you were

00:20:29.859 --> 00:20:32.519
talking about earlier of really targeting the

00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:36.259
nurse bees, which we know have a greater incidence

00:20:36.259 --> 00:20:40.940
of Varroa on them. So a few of these kind of

00:20:40.940 --> 00:20:44.339
flat bee jim plates, we call them the bee jim

00:20:44.339 --> 00:20:48.619
slim, are suspended amongst your brood combs.

00:20:48.859 --> 00:20:53.230
What we have now From 2023, we have a really

00:20:53.230 --> 00:20:59.869
good controlled trial from a group here in the

00:20:59.869 --> 00:21:03.069
West of England called the Devon Apicultural

00:21:03.069 --> 00:21:07.390
Research Group. We have a really good trial of

00:21:07.390 --> 00:21:13.569
135 hives, which I'm not sure all the beekeepers

00:21:13.569 --> 00:21:16.480
stayed the whole of the trial. which is a tough

00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:19.640
thing to do. It's really not so easy to organise

00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.380
a big trial, but they had a really good response

00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:27.440
rate of 110 beekeepers stayed the whole course

00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:30.519
of the 19 -week trial. So there's loads and loads

00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:34.240
of data in that trial. Basically, the hives were

00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:36.819
divided in two with half of the hive was the

00:21:36.819 --> 00:21:40.059
control side, the bee jim device was on the other

00:21:40.059 --> 00:21:43.000
half. So it was a comparison of mite drop from

00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:46.700
one hive. one half of the hive compared to the

00:21:46.700 --> 00:21:51.019
other. These slim, medium slims that are suspended

00:21:51.019 --> 00:21:55.660
amongst the brood frames had a much, much higher

00:21:55.660 --> 00:21:59.299
incidence of mitrop on their side. For me, it's

00:21:59.299 --> 00:22:03.119
become a really useful trial because instead

00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:06.779
of just imagining what to do next, imagining

00:22:07.130 --> 00:22:10.410
how to make these things better. There's a real

00:22:10.410 --> 00:22:12.549
kind of benchmark with this trial to say that

00:22:12.549 --> 00:22:15.490
the bees are definitely using it. It's resulting

00:22:15.490 --> 00:22:19.490
in a higher mite drop. So this isn't brand new.

00:22:19.490 --> 00:22:22.829
This thing's been around a few years. It's been

00:22:22.829 --> 00:22:26.289
trialed. Is it distributed through Vita Bee Health?

00:22:26.609 --> 00:22:29.369
That's right. It's distributed through Vita Europe

00:22:29.369 --> 00:22:33.849
Limited. In the UK and the US, I think Dadan

00:22:33.849 --> 00:22:39.119
are the supplier in the U .S. So I just want

00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:41.019
to make sure I'm clear and I'm looking at your

00:22:41.019 --> 00:22:44.460
website right now. So I still see the Square

00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:48.960
Bee Jim and I see the Bee Jim Slim. I like that.

00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:51.740
Do we need both? Do we need one or the other?

00:22:52.099 --> 00:22:55.079
If somebody wants to give it a try. It's interesting.

00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:58.779
I've put so much effort into producing the Bee

00:22:58.779 --> 00:23:01.759
Jim Slim and it's got this really good trial

00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:05.420
behind it. But most of my sales are actually

00:23:05.420 --> 00:23:09.029
of the old. square version of the bee tomb. And

00:23:09.029 --> 00:23:11.009
I think it appeals to people because it sits

00:23:11.009 --> 00:23:13.950
on the floor of the hive. It sits on the open

00:23:13.950 --> 00:23:19.089
mesh floor. Any mites that the bees might scrape

00:23:19.089 --> 00:23:22.549
off fall through the mesh floor immediately.

00:23:22.849 --> 00:23:26.349
So it's got that nice, there's a nice idea of

00:23:26.349 --> 00:23:29.970
the benefits of dislodging some of these mites

00:23:29.970 --> 00:23:32.690
result in the mite just disappearing out the

00:23:32.690 --> 00:23:36.539
hive. Some beekeepers have said that. It sells

00:23:36.539 --> 00:23:39.799
really well and beekeepers come back for more

00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:43.319
time and time again. But we have this new version

00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:46.400
which targets the nurse bees. It's right in amongst

00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.200
the combs and it has this really good trial,

00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:52.640
has this really good kind of results attached

00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.960
to it. So I'm just hoping that people will read

00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.279
the study and the study is available from my

00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:03.119
website and Vita do have a link to this study.

00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:05.750
But yeah. Yeah, that's where we're at at the

00:24:05.750 --> 00:24:08.890
moment. Well, I appreciate your very soft sell

00:24:08.890 --> 00:24:11.509
approach. Some people would be pushing this down

00:24:11.509 --> 00:24:14.589
our throats and I and I always tell guests this

00:24:14.589 --> 00:24:17.089
is not an infomercial, so don't go there. But

00:24:17.089 --> 00:24:20.670
but I appreciate it. And just to give a little

00:24:20.670 --> 00:24:23.150
background on, I have a fairly good pulse of

00:24:23.150 --> 00:24:27.589
a lot of beekeepers out there. And there's a

00:24:27.589 --> 00:24:30.650
couple of bottom lines going on here. One is

00:24:30.650 --> 00:24:33.819
for always a thing. If you're new to beekeeping

00:24:33.819 --> 00:24:36.799
and you think you could ignore it, you can't.

00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:39.859
Okay? But you have to do what you're comfortable

00:24:39.859 --> 00:24:43.140
with and a lot of people are comfortable with

00:24:43.140 --> 00:24:46.880
some of the I'll just call them chemical miticides

00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:49.619
that are out there. Some of them work very well.

00:24:49.980 --> 00:24:52.380
Some people are not comfortable with that and

00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:55.950
so they're looking for alternative methods. of

00:24:55.950 --> 00:24:58.630
getting rid of those mites this would be one

00:24:58.630 --> 00:25:01.609
of those alternative methods and like everything

00:25:01.609 --> 00:25:07.569
else that you use the key is test before and

00:25:07.569 --> 00:25:12.230
then test after and if it worked for you great

00:25:12.230 --> 00:25:16.769
if it worked but maybe you need something else

00:25:16.769 --> 00:25:20.769
then do something else too and in your situation

00:25:20.769 --> 00:25:23.240
may be a little different than the guy's down

00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:28.599
the street. So experiment, try different things,

00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:32.599
be open -minded to sometimes I might need a miticide,

00:25:33.099 --> 00:25:37.039
sometimes something like this or like a more

00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:40.299
organic type of miticide might be the answer,

00:25:40.619 --> 00:25:44.660
or it may be a combination. So be open -minded,

00:25:45.259 --> 00:25:48.759
test, test, test, see what works for you. And

00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:52.200
if you want another tool in your box, Here's

00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.319
another tool. Give it a shot. I think that's

00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:59.180
a really good approach to to see what works for

00:25:59.180 --> 00:26:01.559
you. Some beekeepers are going to be more comfortable

00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:05.880
working with non -chemical approaches. I would

00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:08.920
say personally be open -minded because if you

00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:12.180
suddenly have a really big infestation of Varroa,

00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:16.079
then you might have to do all it takes to get

00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:18.880
rid of them. But at the same time, like you said,

00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:23.440
So many beekeepers are at their heart, experimentational.

00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:27.079
They're people who can fix things and love to

00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:30.880
make things and come up with new ideas. So I

00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:32.759
would suggest if they want to try the Bee Gym

00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:37.539
approach, maybe try it in conjunction with other

00:26:37.539 --> 00:26:40.160
approaches as well. There's other sort of non

00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:43.200
-chemical approaches to do with bee husbandry.

00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:47.460
Those work well together. Yeah, it's a tool.

00:26:48.089 --> 00:26:51.910
That you can use in your arsenal of other tools

00:26:51.910 --> 00:26:54.890
That's where I'm coming from. Well, I appreciate

00:26:54.890 --> 00:26:57.890
that Hey Stuart, there's something that I ask

00:26:57.890 --> 00:26:59.970
all of our guests and I should have warned you

00:26:59.970 --> 00:27:02.609
upfront But I didn't so I'm gonna let you take

00:27:02.609 --> 00:27:04.509
a minute to think about this next one if you

00:27:04.509 --> 00:27:09.849
want to Every beekeeper has had some kind of

00:27:09.849 --> 00:27:12.970
wild and crazy beekeeping experience. Maybe a

00:27:12.970 --> 00:27:16.079
hundred of them I want you to think of something

00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:18.259
that you've had that you can share. This is something

00:27:18.259 --> 00:27:22.519
that could be funny or painful or just ridiculous

00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:25.119
in some way. Do you have a story you can share

00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:28.079
with us? I've got a few stories I'm just thinking

00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:30.920
through. It can be more than one, that's okay.

00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:35.720
Last year I had a novel beekeeping experience.

00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:39.380
for me. And that is, you can probably tell from

00:27:39.380 --> 00:27:42.339
my approach that I'm really into experimentation

00:27:42.339 --> 00:27:45.980
and I find honey bees really fascinating. So

00:27:45.980 --> 00:27:48.299
in a way, I don't need loads of hives. I just,

00:27:48.299 --> 00:27:51.579
I just observe honey bees. I do a lot of filming.

00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:55.640
I do a lot of thinking about how I might improve

00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:58.880
my invention for instance. But this guy was calling

00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:02.539
me from From Bristol, which is a city not so

00:28:02.539 --> 00:28:04.900
far away from here It's like 30 miles away from

00:28:04.900 --> 00:28:07.599
here and he really wanted me to come and remove

00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:12.980
some bees from his roof and So I think it's what

00:28:12.980 --> 00:28:16.599
you call a cutout and the bees have been there

00:28:16.599 --> 00:28:20.039
some time and this is quite unusual for a kind

00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:25.599
of Wild hive in the UK. It had really prospered.

00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:27.259
I didn't want to do it because it's not really

00:28:27.259 --> 00:28:31.789
my thing and I I suggested quite a few other

00:28:31.789 --> 00:28:34.950
beekeepers, really experienced beekeepers. Somebody

00:28:34.950 --> 00:28:39.250
quoted him like 8 ,000 pounds to take the bees

00:28:39.250 --> 00:28:42.430
out and he wasn't going to do it at that price.

00:28:42.930 --> 00:28:45.309
And what I was really impressed with is that

00:28:45.309 --> 00:28:48.109
he wasn't going to, he needed to remove the bees,

00:28:48.109 --> 00:28:49.890
but he wasn't going to kill them. He was going

00:28:49.890 --> 00:28:52.609
to do anything he could to get them out alive.

00:28:53.009 --> 00:28:57.710
So eventually I agreed to go and do it and he

00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:00.460
built a little scaffold he had a little tower

00:29:00.460 --> 00:29:03.359
there he had a roofer who had peeled away all

00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:06.579
the roof tiles and then it was my job to remove

00:29:06.579 --> 00:29:10.900
the colony but it's not really my thing i i love

00:29:10.900 --> 00:29:13.220
working with swarms and collecting swarms and

00:29:13.220 --> 00:29:16.059
stuff but this was something else it was just

00:29:16.190 --> 00:29:19.289
rafter after rafter after rafter in the roof

00:29:19.289 --> 00:29:22.730
was full of comb and the comb just went on and

00:29:22.730 --> 00:29:26.650
on. I had a bee vac with me but it was full and

00:29:26.650 --> 00:29:29.849
I was trying to empty it into other boxes and

00:29:29.849 --> 00:29:33.390
and it was just buckets of honey, buckets of

00:29:33.390 --> 00:29:37.109
comb, not really something from my beekeeping

00:29:37.109 --> 00:29:39.569
experience. I mean in the end I did manage it

00:29:39.569 --> 00:29:42.730
and I got the bees into a whopping great big

00:29:42.730 --> 00:29:46.440
hive back where I am in Gloucestershire. But

00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:50.319
at the end of the day, I was exhausted and I

00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:54.160
just could never do that again. Hats off to people

00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:57.700
who do that for a living. I didn't get a single

00:29:57.700 --> 00:30:03.920
sting. The bees were just so well mannered and

00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:07.220
really, really passive. I hardly used any smoke.

00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:09.339
It was a great experience from that point of

00:30:09.339 --> 00:30:13.000
view, but the sheer effort was something I never

00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:16.099
want to do again. I can add another hats off

00:30:16.099 --> 00:30:20.339
to people that do that in places like Texas where

00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:24.519
it's a hundred degrees Fahrenheit and and nearly

00:30:24.519 --> 00:30:27.859
a hundred percent humidity Imagine if it was

00:30:27.859 --> 00:30:30.099
that hot I'll bet it wasn't that hot where you

00:30:30.099 --> 00:30:35.259
are or if you're in an area that has Africanized

00:30:35.259 --> 00:30:39.619
bees, so they are really mean and We've had people

00:30:39.619 --> 00:30:43.009
on the show that do cutouts and removals from

00:30:43.009 --> 00:30:46.589
places like that. And yeah, they don't get paid

00:30:46.589 --> 00:30:51.289
enough. That is a skill in itself, really. Yeah.

00:30:51.329 --> 00:30:54.190
Hats off to people who can do that because fundamentally

00:30:54.190 --> 00:30:57.009
they're trying to save a colony. It's really

00:30:57.009 --> 00:30:59.589
good, a really good practice. Well, and here

00:30:59.589 --> 00:31:02.150
in the States, there are quite a few States where

00:31:02.150 --> 00:31:06.049
it's actually become illegal to just call an

00:31:06.049 --> 00:31:08.609
exterminator to kill them, to just spray them

00:31:08.609 --> 00:31:12.789
with poison, which is Wonderful that that's illegal,

00:31:12.789 --> 00:31:15.750
but it's not illegal everywhere. And so there

00:31:15.750 --> 00:31:18.750
are people that will go and they don't know the

00:31:18.750 --> 00:31:21.829
difference between bees hornets wasps or whatever.

00:31:22.109 --> 00:31:24.390
So they'll just call an exterminator and say

00:31:24.390 --> 00:31:27.910
just kill it. It's a lot cheaper than paying

00:31:27.910 --> 00:31:32.730
somebody like Stewart 8 ,000 pounds. You wish

00:31:32.730 --> 00:31:36.710
to come and remove this big thing. So, you know,

00:31:36.789 --> 00:31:38.690
hats off to everybody that's saving the bees

00:31:38.690 --> 00:31:41.799
out there. Absolutely. There's so impressive

00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:45.420
that that kind of work. And as you say, the economics

00:31:45.420 --> 00:31:48.220
of it, I mean, killing all the bees and buying

00:31:48.220 --> 00:31:52.059
a nuke to replace them would be a fraction of

00:31:52.059 --> 00:31:56.420
the cost. But it's really such a poor thing to

00:31:56.420 --> 00:32:01.079
do. And the opposite is a really great gesture

00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:06.180
that you value insects in that way. I won't be

00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:10.819
doing it again. Lesson learned and they're not

00:32:10.819 --> 00:32:13.660
all that big not all of them are as difficult

00:32:13.660 --> 00:32:16.380
as the one that you're talking about That thing

00:32:16.380 --> 00:32:19.839
sounds huge. If you have pictures Send me a picture

00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:23.039
too. I'd love to see it. Anyway, let's just wrap

00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:25.059
up with this This show is all about the love

00:32:25.059 --> 00:32:27.940
of honeybees and I can tell that you have that

00:32:27.940 --> 00:32:31.960
love Leave us with some kind of great message

00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:34.059
either of love for the bees or just some good

00:32:34.059 --> 00:32:38.009
advice Yeah, I mean I've never seen myself to

00:32:38.009 --> 00:32:43.970
be a sort of professional beekeeper. I'm really

00:32:43.970 --> 00:32:47.990
interested in honeybees and I'm really interested

00:32:47.990 --> 00:32:51.289
in just having them and working with them and

00:32:51.289 --> 00:32:54.230
what I can learn from them. I think if I had

00:32:54.230 --> 00:32:59.769
any advice to give is to really... Enjoy working

00:32:59.769 --> 00:33:02.089
with honeybees, but also we don't we haven't

00:33:02.089 --> 00:33:05.329
learned everything about them. I would experiment

00:33:05.329 --> 00:33:09.650
and think about what they're doing and and Yeah

00:33:09.650 --> 00:33:12.589
trying to improve your beekeeping experience

00:33:12.589 --> 00:33:15.289
by really getting to know them and maybe not

00:33:15.289 --> 00:33:17.849
necessarily worry too much about the quantity

00:33:17.849 --> 00:33:23.009
of of honey you're gonna Get from the hives I'd

00:33:23.009 --> 00:33:26.890
say even with one hive you can you can sit by

00:33:26.890 --> 00:33:30.309
the hive entrance and watch them. And you can

00:33:30.309 --> 00:33:33.890
just learn so much stuff. I mean, sometimes to

00:33:33.890 --> 00:33:36.170
the extent that you might not need to open up

00:33:36.170 --> 00:33:39.109
the hive, you can just see so much from their

00:33:39.109 --> 00:33:44.170
behavior. And I think for me, apart from swarming,

00:33:44.430 --> 00:33:48.369
which is just amazing, the watching what they're

00:33:48.369 --> 00:33:50.450
doing as they're coming and going, what are they

00:33:50.450 --> 00:33:52.710
bringing back with them? Their behavior is what

00:33:52.710 --> 00:33:56.299
I really love. And I lied. I have one more question.

00:33:57.059 --> 00:33:59.720
We'll call it a bonus question. You mentioned

00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:02.220
that you like filming the bees. Give us an idea

00:34:02.220 --> 00:34:04.400
of how you do it. Like what kind of equipment,

00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:09.019
how hard is it to do? I think some of us that

00:34:09.019 --> 00:34:11.199
have tried have not done a very good job. So

00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:13.940
give us some advice on that. Yeah, I started

00:34:13.940 --> 00:34:17.800
filming my honeybee colonies right from the start.

00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:21.800
My first approach was to build a brood box with

00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:26.099
some cutout panels and Perspex sort of inserted

00:34:26.099 --> 00:34:29.820
so that you could look into the combs. That kind

00:34:29.820 --> 00:34:32.679
of worked. I was using a conventional camera,

00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:35.579
a video camera that had quite a good macro lens.

00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:40.780
So I could actually zero in on a fairly small

00:34:40.780 --> 00:34:46.579
area of a comb and record that. I think I had

00:34:46.579 --> 00:34:51.139
more success with one of these plug -in microscopes.

00:34:52.010 --> 00:34:55.610
So you can get these kind of low power video

00:34:55.610 --> 00:35:00.150
microscopes that plug into a USB port in your

00:35:00.150 --> 00:35:04.190
computer. And what I have done in the past is

00:35:04.190 --> 00:35:08.670
kind of cover them in sort of cling film or plastic

00:35:08.670 --> 00:35:12.070
or something and embed them within the hive.

00:35:12.409 --> 00:35:14.690
If you're thinking about a particular spot you

00:35:14.690 --> 00:35:19.469
might want to film. In my case, I removed one

00:35:19.469 --> 00:35:22.829
of the broodcombs and had the camera. built into

00:35:22.829 --> 00:35:26.769
a brood frame. Some of these cameras have little

00:35:26.769 --> 00:35:32.489
LED lighting rings around the lens. So it's actually

00:35:32.489 --> 00:35:34.869
you've got everything you need there. You've

00:35:34.869 --> 00:35:36.889
got the camera, you've got your little lighting

00:35:36.889 --> 00:35:40.610
set up. You can vary the power of the LED lights

00:35:40.610 --> 00:35:44.389
and then it feeds back into your computer into

00:35:44.389 --> 00:35:48.110
various apps that can record on that. It's quite

00:35:48.110 --> 00:35:51.190
a commitment to actually kind of embed a little

00:35:51.260 --> 00:35:55.019
Micro camera into the hive, but you can get great

00:35:55.019 --> 00:35:57.860
results. You're gonna get a really sticky camera

00:35:57.860 --> 00:36:03.900
when you Yeah, yeah, I'd say that's that's one

00:36:03.900 --> 00:36:06.719
way to go. I mean some people use observation

00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:11.699
hives for me that's Interesting, but I don't

00:36:11.699 --> 00:36:14.139
really I don't have an observation hive and I

00:36:14.139 --> 00:36:16.480
don't really have anywhere to put it But yeah,

00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:19.820
I had really good results from this this way

00:36:19.820 --> 00:36:24.179
of embedding I think the brand is Celestron or

00:36:24.179 --> 00:36:27.519
something. They make these low -powered microscopes.

00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:30.199
And the little cameras, there's all kinds of,

00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:32.619
we used to call them lipstick cameras because

00:36:32.619 --> 00:36:35.719
they were about that size. They make them now

00:36:35.719 --> 00:36:39.079
that are on little, you've probably seen them

00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:42.079
in some kind of spy movie or something, but I

00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:44.960
think plumbers and other people use them. They're

00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:48.380
a little teeny camera on the end of a bendable.

00:36:49.150 --> 00:36:52.449
Deal and so you can stick them up and in and

00:36:52.449 --> 00:36:54.590
around but remember you need lights pretty dark

00:36:54.590 --> 00:36:57.329
in there but another fun experimental thing to

00:36:57.329 --> 00:37:01.070
do with your bees. Yeah absolutely and again

00:37:01.070 --> 00:37:04.469
you might observe things that nobody else's observed

00:37:04.469 --> 00:37:09.309
it could happen we know their behaviors is really.

00:37:10.050 --> 00:37:13.070
Quite extraordinary you might. get some really

00:37:13.070 --> 00:37:15.170
good original video. I like the sound of these

00:37:15.170 --> 00:37:16.869
little cameras you're talking about they're probably

00:37:16.869 --> 00:37:19.929
more practical than kind of embedding a video

00:37:19.929 --> 00:37:22.969
microscope but you know the times have changed

00:37:22.969 --> 00:37:24.989
and by the sound of it you can get a more appropriate

00:37:24.989 --> 00:37:28.530
camera. One thing that you mentioned that is

00:37:28.530 --> 00:37:31.050
so important is to get some light in there but

00:37:31.050 --> 00:37:33.389
you can use an external light again if you had

00:37:33.389 --> 00:37:37.889
a cutout panel in your brood box with a perspex

00:37:37.889 --> 00:37:41.050
side on it you could bring a light in from the

00:37:41.050 --> 00:37:43.989
side. feasibly and that would make it a huge

00:37:43.989 --> 00:37:45.969
difference. I guess if you've got an open mesh

00:37:45.969 --> 00:37:48.469
floor, you could put a light in from below, but

00:37:48.469 --> 00:37:51.150
I never tried that. I'm not not sure exactly

00:37:51.150 --> 00:37:54.429
how that would work, but yeah. They make little

00:37:54.429 --> 00:37:58.550
lights. In fact, I have one when I do this podcast

00:37:58.550 --> 00:38:02.349
remotely sometimes instead of these little studio

00:38:02.349 --> 00:38:05.360
lights that I have to plug in. They make little

00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:09.920
LEDs that are about this big that are rechargeable

00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:14.300
just through a USB port. And I would think you

00:38:14.300 --> 00:38:17.960
could take off either the inner cover or if you

00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:20.579
had like a feeder box on top, you could just

00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:23.199
stick it in there, aim it down, put the cover

00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:27.340
back on. Beekeepers are smart and they're inventive.

00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:29.900
Share with us everybody some of the things that

00:38:29.900 --> 00:38:32.739
you're using out there. And anyway, Stuart, I

00:38:32.739 --> 00:38:35.320
will let you go. It's been fun to see you again

00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:40.320
after seeing you in Copenhagen last fall. And

00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.900
let's do it again sometime. Absolutely. Thank

00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:45.400
you so much, Eric. And yeah, good luck to everybody

00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:50.829
out there watching the podcast. Thanks again

00:38:50.829 --> 00:38:53.469
for joining us on Bee Love Beekeeping presented

00:38:53.469 --> 00:38:56.050
by our great friends over at Man Lake. Hey, and

00:38:56.050 --> 00:38:58.550
don't forget to order your bees. And a shout

00:38:58.550 --> 00:39:01.570
out to Vita Bee Health for their support. Vita's

00:39:01.570 --> 00:39:04.230
Varroa Control Ranger products includes Epistan,

00:39:04.389 --> 00:39:08.730
Epigard, and now Varroxan Extended Release Oxalic

00:39:08.730 --> 00:39:12.670
Acid Strips. Thank you so much guys. If you haven't

00:39:12.670 --> 00:39:15.719
yet, please subscribe and follow the show, tell

00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:17.980
your friends about it, and click on over to Be

00:39:17.980 --> 00:39:20.900
Love Beekeeping dot com to sign up for our free

00:39:20.900 --> 00:39:24.320
newsletter. If you have a guest suggestion or

00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:26.480
topic that you'd like discussed on the show,

00:39:26.860 --> 00:39:29.219
shoot me an email, eric at Be Love Beekeeping

00:39:29.219 --> 00:39:32.219
dot com. And remember, if you're not just in

00:39:32.219 --> 00:39:34.699
it for the honey or the money, you're in it for

00:39:34.699 --> 00:39:36.420
the love. See you next week.