Mann Lake CEO Opens Up About The Company and Industry

WEBVTT

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in a world brimming with complexity few creatures

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embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless

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precision she dances from bloom to bloom each

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motion guided by millennia upon millennia of

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instinct each act in service to the whole and

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then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards

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of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,

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part poet, they move along their hives with the

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efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to

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the bees' needs as best they can comprehend,

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and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the

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Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing

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like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their

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journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love, Be Keeping

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presented by Man Lake with today's special guest

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We'll be discussing the overall condition of

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the beekeeping industry, new trends in technologies,

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and a whole bunch more. First I want to mention

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the new report just released, North American

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Honey Bee Strategy. I know that's not the most

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exciting title in the world, but the contents

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are really important. It's a collaborative effort

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with the American Beekeeping Federation, American

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Honey Producers Association, Canadian Beekeepers

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Federation, and the Canadian Honey Council. Other

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sources noted are the Honey Bee Health Coalition,

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Honey Bee Pests, and Project APIS -M. The purpose

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of the report is quote, to unify the beekeeping

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industry and provide a path toward industry sustainability.

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Beekeepers need to have a stronger unified voice

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in the face of increasing obstacles to maintain

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a sustainable beekeeping industry. Commercial

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beekeepers across North America face similar

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challenges and share similar interests. We can

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work toward these interests more effectively

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together. The strategy outlined focuses on external

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threats and internal mechanisms for success.

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We will have someone involved in the report as

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a guest on the show soon but in the meantime

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there's a link to it down in the show notes and

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in our weekly newsletter you can sign up for

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it for free at BeeloveBeekeeping .com. This report

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isn't just for commercial beekeepers it's for

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all of us with a love of honey bees and their

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management. We've got such a special guest with

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us today Rob Wright who's the CEO the Big Cheese

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of Man Lake Hey Rob, good morning. How are you?

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Good morning. I'm good. How are you? I'm great.

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Have you been called cheese recently? No, that's

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the first time in a long time. My kids might

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call me that Anyway, it's good to see you and

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it's gonna be great to have you on the show today

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We have a ton to talk about I want to let our

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listeners know right up front Just because Rob's

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with Man Lake doesn't mean this is gonna be an

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infomercial. It is not We're gonna talk about

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the whole beekeeping business and everything

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that's going on with beekeeping and new products

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and all kinds of fun stuff So I don't know where

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you want to jump in. I I have an idea I was told

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by a little bird that you did your first swarm

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removal recently That's correct. Yeah, how did

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it go? Well, you know, I actually did two of

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them, and it's sort of an outgrowth of... I've

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been catching swarms. There are a lot of feral

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bees in my area here in Santa Barbara, and I

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think I caught five swarms in the same swarm

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trap this spring in the course of about two or

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three weeks. You know how it is as a beekeeper.

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Everybody always gets so excited when you tell

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them you're involved with bees, and often people

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say, oh, I want to get bees, so... I've taken

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to capturing swarms and giving them to my friends

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and neighbors who say they're interested in bees.

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In a man -like box, of course. So anyway, my

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wife's friend, who has a big farm north of here,

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had an old dairy cow building with hollow walls,

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and she had a pretty big colony of bees in there,

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and she's looking to repurpose that building.

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and asked if I could come and remove some of

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those bees. And then I had another neighbor in

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town just shortly after that say that he'd had

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a swarm of bees land in his garden and they had

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established a hive actually on the outside of

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a little small date palm just kind of hanging

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from the palm fronds. So I removed that one as

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well. That one I added to a colony of mine that

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was weak and needed a new queen. So we're one

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of those unusual. Why did this come up? Well,

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I think Jenna maybe mentioned it because we did

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some film of it just for honestly, just for marketing

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purposes, but it was a really large colony and

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it took me several hours to remove it. Erica

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Thompson, who you probably know her name, gave

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me a little bit of advice on how to handle my

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first B removal and it was super helpful. So

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yeah, removed this wall had a sheet metal panel

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on the outside. outside of it. And the hardest

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part was getting that panel off. And Erica had

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told me, you know, the whole key to it is to

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be really gentle in removing the wall and not

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to get the bees all agitated right from the start.

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But that was really hard because the sheet metal

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was, you know, trying to bend sheet metal away

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from the wall as you're removing nails. And it

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was this whole probably eight, four by eight

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panel of old sheet metal. So yeah, we were able

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to get that down with some effort and the bees

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weren't really super agitated, didn't really

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even need gloves or a suit. Started putting the

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bees into a box and I very carefully measured

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the comb and cut it to fit, to maximize the amount

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of comb I could fit in the frames and it filled

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up two 10 frame boxes. I've just taken all the

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comb out. I think we'd refer to that more as

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a cutout, wouldn't we, if you're actually removing

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part of a structure to get to them? Yeah, I guess

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that's right. It took me a very long time to

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find the queen. There were a lot of bees there,

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and she was shy. I was afraid that I was going

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to have to leave without. Knowing if I had gotten

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the Queen and eventually I saw that she was already

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in the box So I must have missed her when I was

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when I was kind of a coma Sometime off microphone

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remind me to tell you about my first swarm Yeah

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Because it was a hilarious disaster that unfortunately

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we weren't filming and I ended up with a great

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swarm but oh man was it a mess we won't get into

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that today because it's not embarrassed the host

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day today but I often get embarrassed anyway

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so what kind of swarm trap were you using that

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you caught all those swarms with you know somebody

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had given me a colony in an old nuke box I'll

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bet it was 2020 five years old and I decided

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well this thing's probably run its useful course

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so I cut the bottom out of it and extended it

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into a double deep nuke box and put a little

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open enclosure thing on the on the entrance and

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just hung that in a tree, in a palm tree in my

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front yard. Yeah, I just get so many swarms there.

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We have a lot of California live oaks in my area

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and a lot of them have cavities with little holes

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that are just perfect for the bees. The bees

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love them. So, you know, as I go for my morning

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run around my neighborhood, I'm always seeing

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bees in oak trees. I guess spring conditions

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were good and there were just a lot of swarms.

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That is really fun, isn't it? And being able

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to share them. is great yeah and you know i i

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have some swarms in my coli i only have six colonies

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but i think four of them are swarms that i've

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caught and they they seem to do better than packages

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i think maybe just they're adapted to the local

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environment better or something okay now you're

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truly not doing an infomercial those men like

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packages are so much better than swarms and Yeah,

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don't worry. We sell swarm traps and swarm lure

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as well. All right. So you go to a lot of different

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bee shows. I think you were recently at the California

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Beekeepers Association. I saw you at Appamondia

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in Copenhagen. Can you give me a feel for just

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being out there in the industry. How does everybody

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feel? Is there a really good positive attitude

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right now? Are people a little nervous after

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the die off last year? What's the general makeup

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of how people are feeling? Well, it varies, as

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you might imagine, pretty starkly between hobbyists

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and commercial beekeepers. That speaks to a dichotomy

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in our business that we're constantly managing

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because the reasons people keep bees and how

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they think about beekeeping. is so fundamentally

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different in those two worlds. So speaking about

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Appamondia, which was more geared towards the

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hobbyist from my perspective, I just found it

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fascinating speaking with all the, it had a pretty

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heavy European bias, as you know, and I really

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wanted to learn about what's happening in Europe

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that might be helpful for our customers in the

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United States. And I saw lots of products and

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different ideas coming out of Europe that Hopefully,

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we'll have some success in introducing to the

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US. I can't talk about anything in particular

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right now, but for me it was very interesting.

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I went to the CSBA show, the California State

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Beekeepers Association, which is down in Temecula,

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California last week. Yeah, I spoke to a lot

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of our commercial beekeeping customers. It's

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interesting because I've only been in this industry

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now coming up on four years. and I found that

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this time of year the beekeepers are pretty nervous

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and tense generally because you know they're

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coming up on next year's almond pollination and

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they're starting to find out how their colonies

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are doing depending on whether they're putting

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them away in storage or moving them to the south

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or whatever they're doing they're starting to

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get early reads on how the the colony survival

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is going to be but they don't really know yet

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and so Yeah, I'd say a handful of people I spoke

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to said it's going to be as bad or worse as last

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year. But then I kind of got the sense they were

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just kind of bracing themselves for whatever's

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going to come. And then I had probably an equal

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number of people say, oh, it looks better. I

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think it's going to be better. But I would definitely

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say the preponderance of people I spoke to were

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not optimistic about this coming year, unfortunately.

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So one of the things that we're really trying

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to do is to play as positive a role in helping

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our customers succeed in beekeeping as we can.

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And the way that we have decided to focus in

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on that is to try to help in the introduction

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of new nutrition -based products. I mean, everybody

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knows that Varroa and its surrounding issues

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are the biggest challenge in keeping your bees

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alive year to year. We're not going to be a drug

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development company or a miticide development

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company for a variety of reasons, but we feel

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that helping beekeepers bring the best possible

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nutrition to their bees is something that we

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actually can do to help beekeepers succeed. I've

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felt in my time in the industry that there's

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not strong enough bridges between the latest

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understanding of bee nutrition in academia and

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in the industry. So we felt like that's a positive

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role that we can play. And we're trying to get

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smarter about bee nutrition and bring to market

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products that we think will actually help your

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bees be healthier and stronger. I like it. Speaking

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of Appamondia, we did a second ago. sure there

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was uh as you remember this great big area i

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forget what they called it the world honey tasting

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or something like that yeah yeah that was so

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fun i don't know if you spent much time there

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i did i tasted a lot of honeys yeah for people

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that weren't there what they did is they had

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this huge area of this expo center with banquet

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tables with samples of honey from all over the

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world and it had marked next to it what country

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it was and then there were these little teeny

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wooden spoons and you would take a dip and just

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have this little bit of honey and then throw

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your wooden spoon away. I found after I don't

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know. I don't know maybe 20 samples. I just couldn't

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handle anymore and I'd have to go back a few

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hours later the next day or something like that.

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Right. I found that really fun. The only honey

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that really surprised me a lot and there were

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different colors and none of these were infused.

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These were just the straight honey. Do you remember

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the honey from the stingless bees? I do remember

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that. It was so different, wasn't it? It was

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very runny. It has a much higher moisture content

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and just a very strong flavor. I don't know how

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else to explain it. Yeah, I'm trying to remember.

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There are several honeys that I was just surprised

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that it was even honey. The taste is so different.

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It was really inspiring. I mean, just the different,

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I guess all the different floral sources the

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bees are relying on ends up creating such a Thanksgiving

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or cornucopia flavors. I mean, it's kind of shocking.

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Then yesterday we had fun as a family We had

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a big get -together and it was kind of fun because

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I had brought back a jar of honey from Lars and

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Zofus I don't know if you met them they helped

00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:25.720
put on the conference and They live in Denmark

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and I had them on the show a month or two before

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the conference They had a few years ago won an

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award for the world's best honey Okay, so I'm

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like I've got to try this and they were so nice

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to bring me a jar of this and it's a creamed

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honey That's what they're famous for. Yeah, but

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as you know, most cream honey gets really hard

00:14:48.059 --> 00:14:51.940
and The crystals can be kind of almost crunchy.

00:14:51.940 --> 00:14:54.899
They can get a little too big Yeah, their honey

00:14:54.899 --> 00:14:57.440
as we were all tasting it yesterday. This was

00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:01.429
really A fun family activity. Their honey is

00:15:01.429 --> 00:15:06.710
so smooth and buttery for a creamed or crystallized

00:15:06.710 --> 00:15:09.049
honey, whatever you want to call it. It was just

00:15:09.049 --> 00:15:11.830
amazing. I mean everybody just sat there with

00:15:11.830 --> 00:15:13.750
it just kind of like rubbing it on their tongue

00:15:13.750 --> 00:15:18.289
going, whoa, this is so cool. So I just want

00:15:18.289 --> 00:15:20.350
to encourage everybody when you travel, when

00:15:20.350 --> 00:15:22.990
you go to different places, try honey from all

00:15:22.990 --> 00:15:24.850
over the place, all over the world, or all over

00:15:24.850 --> 00:15:26.649
the country, or all over your state, wherever

00:15:26.649 --> 00:15:29.990
you are. It is a really fun thing to do. Absolutely,

00:15:30.490 --> 00:15:35.029
absolutely. Yeah, I've even noticed my colonies.

00:15:35.330 --> 00:15:38.149
So we're lucky out here that we've got a pretty

00:15:38.149 --> 00:15:40.870
long season when the bees can be out foraging

00:15:40.870 --> 00:15:43.409
and collecting nectar. Depending on when you

00:15:43.409 --> 00:15:46.029
harvest the honey in this area, it can look very

00:15:46.029 --> 00:15:49.059
different. It may seem early, but right now is

00:15:49.059 --> 00:15:52.620
a great time to order your live bees for 2026

00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:56.100
because they do sell out and because Man Lake

00:15:56.100 --> 00:15:59.700
is offering a discount for Be Love podcast listeners.

00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:03.139
Wait, what? I know you're saying live bees, they

00:16:03.139 --> 00:16:06.899
never go on sale. Well, they are now. Click on

00:16:06.899 --> 00:16:09.919
over to Man Lake. Order your bees any variety.

00:16:10.250 --> 00:16:13.590
nukes or packages and anything in the beginner

00:16:13.590 --> 00:16:17.049
essentials category and when you check out use

00:16:17.049 --> 00:16:19.889
the code get started in bees it's down in the

00:16:19.889 --> 00:16:22.230
show notes so you don't have to remember for

00:16:22.230 --> 00:16:25.570
a discount on everything so get your orders in

00:16:25.570 --> 00:16:29.690
early and save my bees are are pretty heavy into

00:16:29.690 --> 00:16:32.309
the avocado trees at certain times of the year

00:16:32.309 --> 00:16:34.610
but then there's sage at other times of the year

00:16:34.610 --> 00:16:37.830
and and then just a lot of various flowers as

00:16:37.830 --> 00:16:41.909
well. So we get a pretty wide variety even just

00:16:41.909 --> 00:16:45.309
in the same location. I wanted to get back to

00:16:45.309 --> 00:16:47.309
bee health for just a minute because I think

00:16:47.309 --> 00:16:52.090
the nutrition is fabulous and I personally believe

00:16:52.090 --> 00:16:56.470
the bottom line to getting your bees through

00:16:56.470 --> 00:17:00.379
winter, insulation helps. air circulation helps,

00:17:00.539 --> 00:17:03.139
all these things. But the thing that is probably

00:17:03.139 --> 00:17:06.500
the most important is just be health. If your

00:17:06.500 --> 00:17:10.220
bees are healthy, if your Varroa levels are low,

00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:13.299
they have a much, much, much, much better chance

00:17:13.299 --> 00:17:15.839
of getting through winter. When all the harsh

00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.240
things come, whether it's cold or wet or whatever,

00:17:19.539 --> 00:17:21.920
if they're strong and healthy, they're much more

00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:24.279
likely to get through it. The same with they're

00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:27.140
much more likely to survive other kinds of pests.

00:17:28.019 --> 00:17:30.839
Do you want to speak to that topic? Yeah. So,

00:17:30.900 --> 00:17:33.339
so the thing that inspired me about getting more

00:17:33.339 --> 00:17:35.359
involved with bee nutrition is exactly what you

00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:40.160
said, I found that in the industry there's so

00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:43.460
many bee nutrition products, but very few of

00:17:43.460 --> 00:17:46.640
them have any real scientific data associated

00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:49.380
with them. It's almost like the human nutraceutical

00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:53.859
world, where you can buy a dozen different remedies

00:17:53.859 --> 00:17:57.460
for the same affliction, and honestly, 10 of

00:17:57.460 --> 00:18:00.039
them probably don't do anything. And some of

00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:02.200
them might actually make it worse. And it's the

00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.880
same in the bee world where I feel like there's

00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:07.980
so much science going on with respect to bees

00:18:07.980 --> 00:18:10.779
and what keeps them healthy and strong, and not

00:18:10.779 --> 00:18:13.299
all that information is making its way into products.

00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:17.359
So from my perspective, if you think about getting,

00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:20.819
I don't know, the flu, if you get the flu and

00:18:20.819 --> 00:18:23.240
then you get something on top of the flu, it

00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:25.660
can kill you. Whereas if you get the flu and

00:18:25.660 --> 00:18:29.660
you're fit and you eat well, you've got a good

00:18:29.660 --> 00:18:32.269
diet, you're well -nourished, It's really not

00:18:32.269 --> 00:18:34.809
that big a deal. And I think the bees are facing

00:18:34.809 --> 00:18:38.609
so many stressors with habitat loss, exposure

00:18:38.609 --> 00:18:41.950
to pesticides. out in the world, exposure to

00:18:41.950 --> 00:18:44.589
pesticides that are accumulating in the wax.

00:18:45.150 --> 00:18:46.630
You know, in the case of commercial beekeepers,

00:18:46.789 --> 00:18:48.430
they're trucking their bees all over the place,

00:18:48.470 --> 00:18:50.250
which is not, you know, that's stressful for

00:18:50.250 --> 00:18:53.490
the bees as well. So anything we can do to boost

00:18:53.490 --> 00:18:56.089
their overall health level is going to help them

00:18:56.089 --> 00:18:59.269
survive, whether it's Varroa or the viruses that

00:18:59.269 --> 00:19:01.670
are vectored by Varroa. The bee nutrition is

00:19:01.670 --> 00:19:04.009
just going to help our overall success. For me,

00:19:04.009 --> 00:19:07.470
it's not just introducing new products, but also

00:19:07.470 --> 00:19:10.470
introducing new products with to scientific data,

00:19:11.089 --> 00:19:14.049
we're going to be doing controlled studies to

00:19:14.049 --> 00:19:16.789
test the products that we introduce so that we

00:19:16.789 --> 00:19:19.920
can actually show you that they... They make

00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.079
the bees healthier, they result in greater brood

00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:24.859
production, whatever the relevant factor is.

00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:26.839
We don't want to just throw things out there

00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:29.099
and say, well, you know, the bees like it, so

00:19:29.099 --> 00:19:30.920
it must be good for them. I've heard so many

00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:33.519
people say, well, this must be good for the bees

00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:36.220
because they just gobble it up as soon as I put

00:19:36.220 --> 00:19:38.680
it in the colony. What I always say to them is,

00:19:39.019 --> 00:19:41.839
if I put a bag of Doritos in a bowl of carrots

00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:44.160
in front of my kids, which one do you think is

00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:47.009
going to get eaten first? It may or may not be

00:19:47.009 --> 00:19:49.390
an indicator of the healthiness of the snack,

00:19:49.470 --> 00:19:53.349
but it's not a reliable indicator. So we want

00:19:53.349 --> 00:19:56.289
to really do what we can to introduce products

00:19:56.289 --> 00:19:59.170
that are proven to work and to help you make

00:19:59.170 --> 00:20:01.890
your bees healthier. That is such a good analogy.

00:20:02.089 --> 00:20:03.990
The other one that I'm going to use is think

00:20:03.990 --> 00:20:08.349
about your bees. It seems like if I put beautiful,

00:20:08.829 --> 00:20:13.349
clear well water out for them to drink, they're

00:20:13.349 --> 00:20:17.009
not drinking it. They are next door in the neighbor's

00:20:17.009 --> 00:20:19.450
pool with chlorine or they're in a mud puddle

00:20:19.450 --> 00:20:22.930
or they're somewhere and I can't explain why.

00:20:23.109 --> 00:20:25.690
Yeah. But you got me thinking about another thing

00:20:25.690 --> 00:20:27.529
when you were talking about the research which

00:20:27.529 --> 00:20:30.170
I love that idea and that is there's so many

00:20:30.170 --> 00:20:33.490
products out there. For example just miticides

00:20:33.490 --> 00:20:37.269
okay there's a whole bunch of different ones

00:20:37.269 --> 00:20:40.569
and there are people that try to do it without

00:20:40.569 --> 00:20:44.609
using any at all. and there are ways to kill

00:20:44.609 --> 00:20:46.910
mites with heat and all kinds of other things.

00:20:47.509 --> 00:20:51.569
How is a beekeeper supposed to decide what to

00:20:51.569 --> 00:20:56.490
use? What to do? Yeah, I think it's very dependent

00:20:56.490 --> 00:20:59.329
on your personal values and why you're in beekeeping

00:20:59.329 --> 00:21:02.930
and what's important to you. We're actually working

00:21:02.930 --> 00:21:04.849
on a couple of things there that I think will

00:21:04.849 --> 00:21:07.869
expand the hobbyist choices. I think commercial

00:21:07.869 --> 00:21:11.569
beekeepers struggle because if you've got 10

00:21:11.569 --> 00:21:14.410
,000 hives, you can't afford as a commercial

00:21:14.410 --> 00:21:17.410
beekeeper to go and do an alcohol wash on every

00:21:17.410 --> 00:21:20.009
one and see what your mite counts are. And so

00:21:20.009 --> 00:21:22.950
a lot of times they're taking more of a prophylactic

00:21:22.950 --> 00:21:25.950
approach. And in the end it can backfire because

00:21:25.950 --> 00:21:29.349
we end up creating resistance to some of these

00:21:29.349 --> 00:21:31.829
treatments. But as a hobbyist, you have more

00:21:31.829 --> 00:21:35.190
options because you really can gather more information

00:21:35.190 --> 00:21:39.789
about a single colony. and make a decision that's

00:21:39.789 --> 00:21:42.950
tailored to that specific colony. I think that

00:21:42.950 --> 00:21:45.450
one of the things I'm most excited about is seeing

00:21:45.450 --> 00:21:47.990
what a lot of the queen breeders are doing in

00:21:47.990 --> 00:21:51.549
terms of developing Varroa resistant traits,

00:21:51.869 --> 00:21:54.950
good hygienic behaviors. They're choosing queens

00:21:54.950 --> 00:21:58.470
that have good hygienic behaviors and then breeding

00:21:58.470 --> 00:22:01.809
those queens and producing a stock that is just

00:22:01.809 --> 00:22:04.410
naturally more resistant to Varroa. I think that's

00:22:04.410 --> 00:22:06.910
the winning path in the long run. But in the

00:22:06.910 --> 00:22:09.190
meantime, we have to deal with the situation

00:22:09.190 --> 00:22:12.569
at hand and as a hobbyist beekeeper, again, you

00:22:12.569 --> 00:22:14.210
just have to choose what you're comfortable with.

00:22:14.470 --> 00:22:17.750
The natural acids, the miticides, whatever works

00:22:17.750 --> 00:22:21.069
for you. One other thing that we're... looking

00:22:21.069 --> 00:22:23.450
at, Eric, is what we might be able to do to help

00:22:23.450 --> 00:22:26.589
beekeepers. I'm very aware of the fact that the

00:22:26.589 --> 00:22:30.730
wax is sort of a repository for all these pesticides,

00:22:30.910 --> 00:22:33.009
not only the ones that we're using to treat mites,

00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:35.450
but pesticides that the bees are bringing out

00:22:35.450 --> 00:22:38.829
from the outside world into the hive. Wax is

00:22:38.829 --> 00:22:41.069
a perfect place for those things to live forever.

00:22:41.470 --> 00:22:42.950
There have been some studies that have shown

00:22:42.950 --> 00:22:45.470
that some of the pesticides that show up in beeswax

00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.519
have been out of use for 30 years but they're

00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:50.900
still showing up in the wax because we're just

00:22:50.900 --> 00:22:53.440
recycling the same old wax time after time after

00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:55.359
time. We're looking to see if there's something

00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:57.200
that we could do to make that better as well.

00:22:57.460 --> 00:22:59.920
Well also because some of those pesticides don't

00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:03.059
go away. They don't just become inert after a

00:23:03.059 --> 00:23:06.559
few months. They can hang around for a long long

00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:09.119
time. Just because of the chemical makeup of

00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:12.700
wax, it's a very good repository for those molecules,

00:23:13.059 --> 00:23:15.200
and that's part of the reason they don't go away

00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:18.440
as well. So reminder to change those out from

00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:21.339
time to time. Most people I talk to say at least

00:23:21.339 --> 00:23:24.160
once every three years. Make sure you're changing

00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:27.250
those out. And you don't have to do... a whole

00:23:27.250 --> 00:23:29.450
box at the same time. You can do every other

00:23:29.450 --> 00:23:31.630
frame and then the next year do the frames in

00:23:31.630 --> 00:23:34.849
between, things like that. If you would come

00:23:34.849 --> 00:23:38.109
up with a little test strip that I could stick

00:23:38.109 --> 00:23:40.970
in my wax and it would say overabundance of this

00:23:40.970 --> 00:23:43.720
and this pesticide, that'd be awesome. Yeah,

00:23:43.779 --> 00:23:47.180
so we're looking at what we can do to help people

00:23:47.180 --> 00:23:49.519
with that. I don't have anything specific to

00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:51.839
talk about at this point but I think there will

00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:53.680
be a couple things we can do to make that better.

00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:55.799
I was being a little facetious because I didn't

00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:58.759
think that was possible but you sound serious

00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:01.500
like you're figuring that out. We have a couple

00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:04.460
ideas that we're working on that might be useful,

00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:09.500
yeah. So Rob, I know I've bought so many things

00:24:09.500 --> 00:24:12.119
from Man Lake and just had great experiences

00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:15.630
and I wish I lived where you have a store, but

00:24:15.630 --> 00:24:19.710
I have found that the shipping on stuff is fast

00:24:19.710 --> 00:24:22.529
and easy and usually free. You only have to spend,

00:24:22.529 --> 00:24:25.349
what, 150 bucks or something and shipping's free.

00:24:25.710 --> 00:24:29.069
So to me, it's just, it's easy from wherever

00:24:29.069 --> 00:24:31.349
you are. But give me an idea of what's going

00:24:31.349 --> 00:24:35.470
on with the company. What overall, you know,

00:24:35.730 --> 00:24:38.069
you're the big cheese. Take a look down and tell

00:24:38.069 --> 00:24:41.039
us what's up. You know, I actually spoke about

00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:44.140
that last week at the CSBA conference with all

00:24:44.140 --> 00:24:46.460
the commercial beekeepers in California. One

00:24:46.460 --> 00:24:50.099
of the things I've discovered from my sales team

00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:52.259
is that they get asked a lot of questions about

00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:54.859
what's going on at Man Lake and isn't it owned

00:24:54.859 --> 00:24:58.559
by a financial institution or did it change control

00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:02.559
or what's happening with Man Lake. Personal view

00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:05.480
of the world is that transparency is important

00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:08.559
in business and in life generally, so I just

00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:11.140
kind of laid it all out and I'll give you a quick

00:25:11.140 --> 00:25:13.839
version of that. Man Lake was purchased by a

00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:16.799
private equity firm in 2018. I'm one of the co

00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:19.319
-founders of that private equity firm. At the

00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:22.339
time, the founders of Man Lake, Jack and Betty,

00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:26.220
sold the business. Sadly, Jack passed away before

00:25:26.220 --> 00:25:29.039
the transaction closed and Betty moved on to

00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.250
other things. And then in the years after 2018,

00:25:32.849 --> 00:25:35.289
the sales of the company really boomed because

00:25:35.289 --> 00:25:38.069
of COVID. And then on the commercial side, we

00:25:38.069 --> 00:25:40.269
weren't dealing with these high levels of colony

00:25:40.269 --> 00:25:42.990
loss that we've seen in the last few years. So

00:25:42.990 --> 00:25:45.630
times were better. Sales of the company boomed.

00:25:45.750 --> 00:25:49.009
Unfortunately, the profits of the company went

00:25:49.009 --> 00:25:52.670
way down. And the debt of the company was going

00:25:52.670 --> 00:25:54.730
up because the company was losing money every

00:25:54.730 --> 00:25:59.880
year. So by 2022, the debt had doubled, the profits

00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:03.960
were near zero, and the company was in financial

00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:07.400
distress. And that's actually how I got introduced

00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:10.259
to the business. I had retired from investing

00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:12.759
during that period of time and was no longer

00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:15.720
working. My wife told me that I was not meant

00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:17.700
for retirement and I needed to get out and have

00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:19.700
a purpose in the world. And she was right about

00:26:19.700 --> 00:26:23.240
that. So I was always a big believer in beekeeping

00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:25.359
and the importance of pollinators in the world.

00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:27.700
So I decided, you know what, I'm going to A,

00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:30.079
become a beekeeper and B, I'm going to take over

00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:32.380
Man Lake as the CEO and get it turned around.

00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:36.259
I felt a pretty strong obligation to the employees

00:26:36.259 --> 00:26:39.500
and also the customers of Man Lake to not let

00:26:39.500 --> 00:26:42.650
Man Lake basically go down the tube. I stepped

00:26:42.650 --> 00:26:46.730
in as CEO in May of 2022. I went to visit the

00:26:46.730 --> 00:26:49.769
company's lender in Boston, who informed me that

00:26:49.769 --> 00:26:51.869
I had three weeks to come up with a plan. And

00:26:51.869 --> 00:26:53.269
if they didn't like it, they were going to take

00:26:53.269 --> 00:26:57.190
over the business. For those of you who are not

00:26:57.190 --> 00:26:59.849
familiar with what that means, it usually means

00:26:59.849 --> 00:27:02.390
the company gets liquidated. I was just not willing

00:27:02.390 --> 00:27:06.009
to let that happen. So I got with the team. We

00:27:06.009 --> 00:27:08.490
came up with a plan. Three weeks became three

00:27:08.490 --> 00:27:12.420
months, became a year. And we were able to make

00:27:12.420 --> 00:27:14.640
some big impacts in the company in a short period

00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:17.240
of time. We paid off over half the debt in the

00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:20.619
first two years. And then I knew this was going

00:27:20.619 --> 00:27:23.099
to happen eventually. Eric, I kind of dreaded

00:27:23.099 --> 00:27:25.500
the day. But I got the phone call from the lender

00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:27.980
who said, hey, you've paid off half the debt.

00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:30.019
And now if we just sell the company, we can get

00:27:30.019 --> 00:27:32.130
the rest of our money back. They essentially

00:27:32.130 --> 00:27:35.230
forced a sale of the company. I was not in a

00:27:35.230 --> 00:27:38.190
position to stop that so I did my best to try

00:27:38.190 --> 00:27:40.490
to find a buyer for the company that would be

00:27:40.490 --> 00:27:43.130
a good long -term home for the business. But

00:27:43.130 --> 00:27:45.450
ultimately the lender decided to sell the company

00:27:45.450 --> 00:27:48.950
to another financial firm. I met with this financial

00:27:48.950 --> 00:27:52.930
firm more than once with my team. The whole team

00:27:52.930 --> 00:27:55.029
agreed that this was not going to be a good future

00:27:55.029 --> 00:27:58.480
for Man Lake and that we really didn't did not

00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:02.180
support selling to this firm, but we could not

00:28:02.180 --> 00:28:07.200
get our lender to back off from that deal. So

00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:11.519
I decided to step out of Man Lake and put together

00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:15.019
my own buying group. I got five family friends

00:28:15.019 --> 00:28:18.880
who are all big believers in pollination, the

00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:21.319
importance of pollination, beekeeping generally.

00:28:21.849 --> 00:28:25.089
And we bought the company in less than a week.

00:28:25.490 --> 00:28:28.650
We outbid this financial firm and bought the

00:28:28.650 --> 00:28:32.309
company in... March of this year. For me, that

00:28:32.309 --> 00:28:35.390
was a really huge and important step for Man

00:28:35.390 --> 00:28:37.910
Lake because Man Lake is now back in the hands

00:28:37.910 --> 00:28:40.809
of family ownership. None of us bought the company

00:28:40.809 --> 00:28:43.410
to flip it and make a quick buck. We bought it

00:28:43.410 --> 00:28:45.470
because we believe in the mission of Man Lake

00:28:45.470 --> 00:28:48.130
and we want the company to thrive, you know,

00:28:48.309 --> 00:28:50.910
decades into the future. Man Lake today is debt

00:28:50.910 --> 00:28:53.210
free. It's owned by a group of families, all

00:28:53.210 --> 00:28:55.680
of whom are personal friends of mine and are

00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:58.700
just fantastic individuals who bring a lot to

00:28:58.700 --> 00:29:01.559
the company. Many of them have great business

00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:04.279
successes in their background and have advised

00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:06.779
me on ways to improve the performance of Man

00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:09.099
Lake. Gosh, I think some of the important things

00:29:09.099 --> 00:29:11.559
for our customers, Eric, are that we have gone

00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:14.660
back to the basic blocking and tackling that

00:29:14.660 --> 00:29:17.380
made Man Lake what it was in the first place.

00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:20.660
So for example, our goal is to get to 24 -hour

00:29:20.660 --> 00:29:22.960
turnaround on all orders by the time we hit the

00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:25.279
busy season next year. We're currently at about

00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:28.680
48 hours. And you know, that's down from probably

00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:31.900
11 days or something like that when I joined

00:29:31.900 --> 00:29:34.380
the company a few years ago. When I first started

00:29:34.380 --> 00:29:36.019
in the company, just to give you an example,

00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:39.079
we were out of stock on 400 key items just in

00:29:39.079 --> 00:29:42.200
our California location alone. I had one of our

00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:44.059
customers call me up when I first joined and

00:29:44.059 --> 00:29:46.640
said, I don't understand how you can claim to

00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:49.619
no bees when it's May and you don't have any

00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:52.549
smokers. And I didn't really have an answer for

00:29:52.549 --> 00:29:55.269
that. So what we've done over the last few years,

00:29:55.289 --> 00:29:57.470
Eric, is that we've invested in the team. We've

00:29:57.470 --> 00:30:00.509
invested in information systems. And we're now

00:30:00.509 --> 00:30:03.089
using state of the art technology to manage our

00:30:03.089 --> 00:30:05.809
business, predict our inventory, trigger the

00:30:05.809 --> 00:30:08.589
right actions in terms of buying goods and building

00:30:08.589 --> 00:30:11.509
goods so that we're always going to be in stock

00:30:11.509 --> 00:30:14.690
on the right items at the right time. Those things

00:30:14.690 --> 00:30:17.029
make a difference to the customers. As you know,

00:30:17.029 --> 00:30:19.430
when you've got an issue in your hive, getting

00:30:19.430 --> 00:30:22.450
something 10 days later is just not good enough.

00:30:22.890 --> 00:30:25.009
So it's important that we have the things you

00:30:25.009 --> 00:30:27.349
need when you need them. Anyway, that was sort

00:30:27.349 --> 00:30:29.430
of a long answer to your question, Eric, but

00:30:29.430 --> 00:30:31.970
hopefully that gives listeners a little bit of

00:30:31.970 --> 00:30:35.029
a sense of what's happening at Man Lake. I almost

00:30:35.029 --> 00:30:38.650
don't know what to say because when you say equity

00:30:38.650 --> 00:30:42.150
firms are buying it and stuff, I just think about,

00:30:42.549 --> 00:30:47.470
well, I can think of quite a few movies, one

00:30:47.470 --> 00:30:49.849
being Wall Street, which is one of my favorites.

00:30:50.369 --> 00:30:52.950
And the big, what's that one called? The big

00:30:52.950 --> 00:30:56.269
something, the big short is another one of those.

00:30:56.509 --> 00:30:59.890
And you guys are doing the exact opposite of

00:30:59.890 --> 00:31:02.509
those. And I think that's really cool. And I

00:31:02.509 --> 00:31:06.049
think it's cool that that you also jumped headfirst

00:31:06.049 --> 00:31:09.380
into beekeeping so that you really get it. Yeah,

00:31:09.380 --> 00:31:11.980
I just wish I had done it sooner. It's been really

00:31:11.980 --> 00:31:15.240
transformative for me. I just love the bees and

00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:18.920
everything to do with them and I feel like my

00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:22.759
experience of the last 30 years turning around

00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:25.660
basic industry companies that have just lost

00:31:25.660 --> 00:31:28.839
their way. turns out to be perfectly suited for

00:31:28.839 --> 00:31:31.900
what man like needs. So I'm still a newbie when

00:31:31.900 --> 00:31:34.000
it comes to bees. I'm only out at four years,

00:31:34.019 --> 00:31:36.500
but I just devour any information I can get about

00:31:36.500 --> 00:31:39.460
bees because I love them. And I think that the

00:31:39.460 --> 00:31:41.799
more informed we are as a supplier, the more

00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:44.420
we can support our customers who, if they share

00:31:44.420 --> 00:31:47.279
anything with us, it's the love of bees. Last

00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:50.359
thing before I let you go. And that is as we

00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:52.859
look forward to the future. And you've been to

00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:56.049
all these trade shows and things. So you've seen

00:31:56.049 --> 00:31:59.990
all the newest gadgets and there are things using

00:31:59.990 --> 00:32:04.130
AI and robotic arms and beekeeping and trying

00:32:04.130 --> 00:32:07.009
to take people out of the mix, the beekeepers.

00:32:07.609 --> 00:32:09.289
What do you think about the whole future? Is

00:32:09.289 --> 00:32:12.789
that going to be part of it or what? Well, that's

00:32:12.789 --> 00:32:14.730
a really good question, Eric. I mean, you'll

00:32:14.730 --> 00:32:17.029
see we've introduced some technology like on

00:32:17.029 --> 00:32:19.529
our app where you can identify a plant and it

00:32:19.529 --> 00:32:22.210
will tell you if it's good for bees or not. We

00:32:22.210 --> 00:32:25.069
have our AI chat bot, Bella, who we educated

00:32:25.069 --> 00:32:28.069
about beekeeping and who actually is pretty effective

00:32:28.069 --> 00:32:31.109
at giving good advice. And so I think what I

00:32:31.109 --> 00:32:33.049
would say is that we're trying to be realistic

00:32:33.049 --> 00:32:35.230
about the way the world is developing. And I

00:32:35.230 --> 00:32:38.339
don't think we can shun these technologies. but

00:32:38.339 --> 00:32:41.259
at its heart beekeeping is it's something that

00:32:41.259 --> 00:32:43.619
we do to connect us with nature which in some

00:32:43.619 --> 00:32:46.720
ways is sort of anti -technology and don't get

00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:49.500
me wrong i'm not anti -technology but i i think

00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:53.180
the important part of beekeeping for me is cracking

00:32:53.180 --> 00:32:56.599
open that hive and smelling it and seeing what's

00:32:56.599 --> 00:33:00.579
happening with the bees and having that remind

00:33:00.579 --> 00:33:04.589
you that We are all part of this natural world.

00:33:05.490 --> 00:33:08.349
And as much as we can get sucked into our screens

00:33:08.349 --> 00:33:11.390
and watching 10 second clips of people doing

00:33:11.390 --> 00:33:14.430
whatever, the most rewarding times that we have

00:33:14.430 --> 00:33:17.849
are when we feel that connection and we actually

00:33:17.849 --> 00:33:20.730
go with it. And that's what we're trying to promote

00:33:20.730 --> 00:33:23.009
as a business. I wish people spent more time

00:33:23.009 --> 00:33:25.829
with their bees and less on their smartphone.

00:33:26.190 --> 00:33:28.789
I think the world would be a better place. The

00:33:28.789 --> 00:33:31.150
world would be a better place. We have just solved

00:33:31.150 --> 00:33:34.170
the whole nature of humanity. Yes, that's right.

00:33:34.390 --> 00:33:37.630
Thanks to the bees. Hey, Rob and Man Lake. I

00:33:37.630 --> 00:33:40.309
appreciate you being on the show and really appreciate

00:33:40.309 --> 00:33:44.210
Man Lake being such a huge supporter of the show.

00:33:44.609 --> 00:33:48.950
It has really meant a lot and has really been,

00:33:48.950 --> 00:33:51.690
I hope, a good partnership because we've had

00:33:51.690 --> 00:33:54.289
so much growth over the last year or so since

00:33:54.289 --> 00:33:56.940
we got this thing going. So we just appreciate

00:33:56.940 --> 00:33:59.380
it very much. Take care, my friend. Thank you,

00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:04.599
Eric. I appreciate your time. Thanks for joining

00:34:04.599 --> 00:34:07.660
us on Be Love Beekeeping presented by Man Lake.

00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:10.179
If you like this content, I hope you'll share

00:34:10.179 --> 00:34:13.059
it with a friend. Follow and subscribe to this

00:34:13.059 --> 00:34:16.420
podcast and even sign up for our newsletter at

00:34:16.420 --> 00:34:19.489
BeLoveBeekeeping .com. Also, just a shout out

00:34:19.489 --> 00:34:22.050
to Vita B Health for their support, we appreciate

00:34:22.050 --> 00:34:25.070
them. Vita's Varroa Control range of products

00:34:25.070 --> 00:34:29.349
includes Epistan, Epigard, and now Veroxen, Extended

00:34:29.349 --> 00:34:33.230
Release Oxalic Acid Strips. Thanks guys, and

00:34:33.230 --> 00:34:35.690
remember, if you're not just in it for the honey

00:34:35.690 --> 00:34:38.670
or the money, you're in it for the love. See

00:34:38.670 --> 00:34:39.449
you next week.