How To Make The World's Best Creamed Honey

WEBVTT

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May I have your attention, please the following

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is not the real Jeff Fox review If your home

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decor is everything honeybee, well you might

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be a beekeeper If you hesitate when the doctor

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asks if you smoke you might be a beekeeper If

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when you Welcome, welcome to Be Love, Be Keeping

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presented by our good friends over at Man Lake.

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We're gonna have a ton of fun today as we head

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all the way to Denmark to speak with a couple

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of hobby beekeepers and best friends about beekeeping

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in that part of the world and about Appamonia

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which is coming up this September in Copenhagen.

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Maybe the best part is they're going to share

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their secrets on creating the world's best creamed

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honey and they have the trophies to back it up.

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But first, have you ever wondered what it is

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about honey that keeps it fresh for so long,

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maybe even forever? In a sealed environment,

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honey may crystallize, turning thick and chunky,

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but it will not spoil. When we say that food

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has spoiled, what we actually mean is that something

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else has gotten to it first, something microscopic.

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Bacteria, fungi, molds are present in at least

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low numbers in many foods. and a number of the

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procedures that humans use to preserve food are

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designed to discourage these little monsters

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from consuming it. Many of these microorganisms

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tend to prefer moist conditions, higher but not

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too high temperatures, a mellow pH, and plenty

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of oxygen around to use in their metabolism.

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Dehydrating meat or food then deprives them of

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water. Cooking food to a high heat then moving

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it into the refrigerator for storage first kills

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off many bugs and puts a damper on the growth

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of any left behind. Suspending food in a pickling

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mixture wards off all but the most acid -loving

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creatures. Sealing something in a jar limits

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the oxygen they have access to. But honey is

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an unusual case and here's why. It's made by

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honey bees from flower nectar and starts out

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as a warmish, watery, sugary fluid. The kind

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of thing that seems like it would be the purest

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bacteria bait. But the bees concentrate the nectar

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on the way to the hive, removing some of the

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water. They use enzymes to raise the acid content

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in the fluid, discouraging some forms of microorganisms

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from growing, and they break down the sugars

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into simpler ones. Then they decant the stuff

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into honeycomb chambers, similar to miniature

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glass jars. Next, they do something remarkable.

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They fan the honey with their wings. The fanning

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slowly evaporates the remaining water like an

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oscillating fan evaporating sweat from your skin.

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So a substance that was once about 70 or 80 percent

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water sees that number drop and drop and drop.

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Fully ripened honey typically has a water content

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between 17 and 18 percent. In fact the proportion

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of sugar molecules to water is so enormous that

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it wouldn't be physically possible to dissolve

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that much sugar into that much water without

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a process like the one that honey bees use. There's

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plenty of sugar there and of course microorganisms

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would love to have a go at it, but with so little

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water... and the acidity providing an additional

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disincentive they simply can't survive. Once

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the proper percentage of water is reached, bees

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seal each chamber with a cap of beeswax similar

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to us putting a lid on a jar. It limits the availability

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of oxygen and there's another barrier to growth.

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This is a state known as low water activity among

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food scientists and in fact lowering a substance's

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water activity is a common trick to preserve

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processed foods. Now this doesn't mean that honey

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can withstand all challenges to freshness. If

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your house is anything like mine sometimes there's

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a jar that's open which means its surface is

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regularly exposed to the air and maybe somebody

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is dipping licked spoons in which will bring

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bacteria and moisture that weren't there before

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the jar was sealed. Anyway it is amazing, yes

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once again honey bees are absolutely amazing.

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Maybe in the future we'll take a deep dive into

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the actual chemistry of honey but for now while

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you're still awake let's meet Lars and Zofus

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in Denmark. This is going to be really fun today,

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everybody. We're going across the pond to Denmark

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to meet with Lars Fischer and his buddy Zofus.

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I didn't catch your last name, Zofus. Knusen,

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Zofus Knusen. It's a good thing I didn't try

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to say that. I have a hard time pronouncing these

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Scandinavian words. They're not built into our

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American tongues. I apologize for that. But Lars

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will mostly be speaking with you. Good afternoon,

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and how are you today? Well, I'm fine, Eric.

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Thank you. Sufis and I, we've been making queens

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today, so it's been a full day. I got stung in

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my face just below the eye. Now I'm on video,

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so I don't hope it's too swollen yet. That's

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sort of on the shady side of your face, so I

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don't notice it too much. I'm curious, did you

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have a veil on when you got stung? No, you know,

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that's always the problem. I stood some meters

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away and everything was calm. And then suddenly

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one bee decided that I should be some kind of

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target. Yeah, so I only had myself to blame,

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actually. Well, that is usually the case. Yeah,

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it is. When we first start beekeeping, at least

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with me, I was covered from head to toe and hardly

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ever got stung. But then we get a little bit

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more lax and a little bit more lax and we get

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stung more. And it's our own fault because of

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that, I guess. But we're going to talk about

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all kinds of things today, including apomondia.

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And that's why we're over in Denmark, because

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that conference is coming up in September in

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Copenhagen. Or I assume you would pronounce Copenhagen?

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København. København. Yeah, København. But we

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get Copenhagen as well. I wasn't even close.

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I'm sorry about that. But first, I want to hear

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about you raising queens. What kind of technique

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do you happen to use? So I have the bees together

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with Sofus and we have the luxury of being hobby

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beekeepers. So we don't do it for a living and

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we don't have to earn a lot of money doing it.

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So we do it for the fun and for the adventure.

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So we can sort of, we can try new things each

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year if we want to. What we have done this year

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is we've been making 13 or 14 small families,

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small new families. And we waited a week and

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then we took out all the queen cells they have

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started making. And today we grafted, I think

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it's called grafting, from our two best families.

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And we put in three cells in each of the new

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families. We did that the last few years and

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that's a technique that's good for our sort of

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level of doing it. So as hobbyists, how many

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hives do you two have? We have 15 hives and now

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13 small families. We started as beekeepers in

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2009 and pretty soon we sort of found our level.

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Especially after we won this honey championship

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in 2017, we got a lot of offers from big stores

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and chains and smaller stores of making something

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with them or selling our honey with them. And

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we were totally excited. I guess both Soufis

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and I, we are pretty easily ignitable. when it

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comes to excitement. So we had all these huge

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plans until we talked with our wives, who sort

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of, well, we'd like to see you once in a while

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too. And then we sort of realized what was important

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for us in our beekeeping. Well, that's the hobby

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part of it. And then we realized that what's

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important for us in our beekeeping is, you know,

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relaxing in the bees, de -stressing in the bees,

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being together with each other and the bees,

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the hobby part of it. So we actually ended up

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cancelling all these plans and proposals we have

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got from the companies and saying this season

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and the next season, it's all about back to basics.

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It's about what's the values of our beekeeping,

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what's important for us. And that is the hobby

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part of it. And that's been our level ever since.

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So 15 beehives, that's our level. Otherwise,

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you get too busy. I absolutely love that attitude

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because for so many of us, it's easy to just

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be into, wow, it's going well. I want to expand.

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I want more hives. I want more hives. I want

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more hives. But unless you really want to do

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it for a living, just find a level that's comfortable

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for you so that you have time to really enjoy

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it. Now, I understand commercial beekeepers,

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they're in a different zone and it's a business.

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For the rest of us, even for some sideliners,

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but especially for hobbyists, yeah, find your

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sweet spot and just really enjoy it. That is

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fantastic. It should all be a balance, a beekeeping

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life balance between beekeeping and all the other

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stuff in our lives and work and family and that,

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but also a balance between the amount of bees

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and the amount of honey we get. So because we

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have to sort of sell or use the honey too. Yeah,

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give me an idea of how much honey per high view

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average. We have three different apiaries here.

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We have one here at home where we live and it's

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sort of Danish countryside. And Danish is a very,

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it's farmland. We are an agricultural land. So

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there are big fields around where we live. Then

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we have an apiary in a forest nearby, and it's

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a newly planted forest, so there are huge amounts

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of different weeds there, and we love it. Thistle.

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We love thistle. And then we have an apiary in

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the middle of the neighboring city of Odense,

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and that's a city with around 200 ,000 people.

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And the reason I'm saying that is because at

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home and in the forest, we get maybe 50 to 60

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kilos. That must be 100, 120 pounds of honey

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per hive per year. Right. And that's a good yield.

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That's excellent. But in the middle of Odense,

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the city, we get maybe 200 to 220 pounds honey

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per year per hive. Wow. Huge amounts of honey.

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Is that because a lot of people grow flowers

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or why is that? We can measure that there's much

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more nature in the city than on the Danish countryside.

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And that really gives food for thought. Because

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somehow it shouldn't be that way. We wouldn't

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expect it to be that way. We would expect the

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nature to be on the countryside. But the nature,

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the flowers, the nectar, it's in the city. And

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Ulense is a green city. It has a lot of parks.

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It has a lot of gardens. But still, we get twice

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as much honey in the city as we do on the countryside.

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You must do something right in your cities over

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there. We need to take a lesson from you. Yeah,

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we have a lot of parks and greenery. I think

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we have that in Uhrenstedt, but also in Copenhagen.

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There are a lot of beekeepers in Copenhagen as

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well, and it's a good place to have bees. Speaking

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of Copenhagen, let's talk about Appamondia for

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a minute. And then don't let me forget, I want

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to get back to 2017 and hear about your big award

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for the world's best honey. Yeah. But tell us

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about, if someone has never heard of Appamondia,

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just go from the start, explain what it is and

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why it's going to be in Copenhagen this year.

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So Appamondia is the the congress held by the

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Epimondia Federation and the Epimondia Federation

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that's sort of the world organization for beekeepers.

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And there are a lot of national associations

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that are member associations of the Epimondia

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Federation. Denmark as a whole has one big beekeepers

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association and we are members of the Epimondia

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Federation. And I think actually there are five

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members in the USA But it's global. It's for

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beekeepers from all over the world. And every

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second year, there is this congress somewhere

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in the world. Sofis and I, we have attended six

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congresses in Kiev, in the Ukraine, in South

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Korea, in Istanbul, obviously, and in Canada,

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in Montreal, and in Istanbul again, and in Chile.

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So it's really a traveling event. Next time in

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September this year, it will be in Copenhagen.

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So in 2022, the three Scandinavian Beekeepers

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Association, we teamed up and we made this bid

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to win the right to host the Appamontia Congress.

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It's a bit like the Olympic games, you know,

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the cities or the countries they compete. and

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won CC, they win and they made this grand show.

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Next time there's an Olympic Games. It's the

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same with the Appymontia Congress. So it'll come

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to Copenhagen in September. And it's a bit like

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the other big conferences. There's an Appy Expo,

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we call it, where all the companies, they have

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their stands, they have their booths. They sort

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of show what they have invented since the last

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time and they... They meet and they trade and

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they sell and they sell honey and they buy honey.

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And then there's also a scientific part. All

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the scientists, they come to Copenhagen and we

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don't see them much during that week because

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they have three or four hundred lectures and

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talks, roundtable discussions, all kinds of meetups.

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And then there is something new, which we call

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the Global Honey Bar. So we have basically invited

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every country in the world to come to Copenhagen

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and bring their most prestigious honeys, the

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honeys they are mostly proud of, their signature

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honeys. And we make this huge table and they

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put it and every participant, they can come and

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they can taste on honey from all over the world.

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Quick break here to thank our presenting sponsor,

00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:25.620
Man Lake. Whether you're a beekeeper or not,

00:16:26.019 --> 00:16:28.580
you know that nutrition is key for healthy honey

00:16:28.580 --> 00:16:32.059
bees, native bees, and other pollinators. The

00:16:32.059 --> 00:16:35.460
Man Lake app is a great resource for determining

00:16:35.460 --> 00:16:38.019
pollinator -friendly plants that thrive in your

00:16:38.019 --> 00:16:41.159
area, and its plant identification feature is

00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:44.000
super helpful and fun. When I see a plant covered

00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:47.080
in bees, I fire up the app, find out what it

00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:49.659
is, then plant them in my yard. If you haven't

00:16:49.659 --> 00:16:51.840
already downloaded the Man Lake app, give it

00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:54.740
a try today. Oh, and did I mention it's free?

00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.620
And if you're shopping for beekeeping supplies,

00:16:58.019 --> 00:17:01.240
don't forget your discount code MLBlove10, it's

00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:04.660
in the show notes, for $10 off your first $100

00:17:04.660 --> 00:17:10.400
purchase. And we expect between 8 ,000 to 9 ,000

00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:13.099
visitors from all over the world. There's also

00:17:13.099 --> 00:17:17.339
a huge social program. We want to make an evening

00:17:17.339 --> 00:17:21.180
bar for all the beekeepers. We want to make parties

00:17:21.180 --> 00:17:25.859
and receptions. And in the venue we want to make

00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:30.240
a lot of coffee spots, nice spots to sit, spots

00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:34.559
to meet old friends and new friends and old acquaintances.

00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:38.160
We want to make it this huge place where people

00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:42.809
from all over the world can meet. Are there language

00:17:42.809 --> 00:17:45.049
barriers with people from all over the world

00:17:45.049 --> 00:17:48.190
or is there a common language? Of course there

00:17:48.190 --> 00:17:51.349
is the language barriers, but it's somehow a

00:17:51.349 --> 00:17:54.470
bit easier when all of us are beekeepers. We

00:17:54.470 --> 00:17:57.130
tend to find this common language when we meet

00:17:57.130 --> 00:17:59.869
someone. Many people obviously speak English

00:17:59.869 --> 00:18:02.990
and you always ask, well, how many hives do you

00:18:02.990 --> 00:18:06.049
have? And then you're sort of already in some

00:18:06.049 --> 00:18:09.460
kind of exchange or conversation. By the way,

00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:12.960
your English is very, very good. Thank you. Yeah,

00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:15.500
congratulations. That must be a lot of work.

00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:19.900
It's really good. So why would a hobbyist go

00:18:19.900 --> 00:18:21.880
to something like this? You guys have been to

00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:24.339
a few of them. Why would you invest the time

00:18:24.339 --> 00:18:27.299
and the money to do something like that? Well,

00:18:27.500 --> 00:18:29.799
that's the great part of being a hobbyist. We

00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:33.059
do it for the experiences and for the adventure.

00:18:33.369 --> 00:18:36.569
So the first time we have had bees for four years

00:18:36.569 --> 00:18:38.930
and we heard about this Congress in the Kiev

00:18:38.930 --> 00:18:41.349
and we thought we got to see that, we got to

00:18:41.349 --> 00:18:45.049
try that. And then when we had decided to go

00:18:45.049 --> 00:18:49.569
there, we heard about these WBA honey contests

00:18:49.569 --> 00:18:54.289
and we, well, if we are going, why not try participating,

00:18:54.589 --> 00:18:57.829
try bringing our honey. And I think that we were

00:18:57.829 --> 00:19:01.549
the first Danes ever to bring our honey. to the

00:19:01.549 --> 00:19:05.210
WBA, the World Beekeeping Awards. And we just

00:19:05.210 --> 00:19:08.849
did it because we are, as I said, easy, ignitable.

00:19:09.910 --> 00:19:12.950
And that was a steep learning curve, bringing

00:19:12.950 --> 00:19:15.990
our honey to the contest. Basically, some of

00:19:15.990 --> 00:19:18.930
our honey got stuck in customs and it was all

00:19:18.930 --> 00:19:24.049
very frustrating. But it was also a big experience

00:19:24.049 --> 00:19:28.630
and super rewarding. So in 2015, we decided we'll

00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:31.759
We'll try it again. We learned a lot. We'll try

00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:35.700
to use what we've learned the last time. So there

00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:38.740
are some great conferences in the USA too, and

00:19:38.740 --> 00:19:41.900
also here in Europe. But I think what makes the

00:19:41.900 --> 00:19:45.920
Appimondia Congress stand apart is it's a truly

00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:49.619
international congress. So it's people from from

00:19:49.619 --> 00:19:54.019
all over the world. You see big black guys in

00:19:54.019 --> 00:19:58.190
in Lyonford. You see Asian guys with strange

00:19:58.190 --> 00:20:03.049
hats. And in Kiev, there were these Eastern European

00:20:03.049 --> 00:20:06.650
men with swords on their side. You see shite

00:20:06.650 --> 00:20:10.109
from Arabia. You see all kinds of people. And

00:20:10.109 --> 00:20:12.450
they all walk there and they all have something

00:20:12.450 --> 00:20:17.869
in common. This flavor of international brotherhood

00:20:17.869 --> 00:20:21.309
somehow. That's also why we've called this a

00:20:21.309 --> 00:20:24.359
congress in Copenhagen. the social congress,

00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:28.720
because that's very important for us, making

00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:32.039
space for people to come together and discover

00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:34.500
that we all have something in common, because

00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:37.559
we live in a very fragmented world. You know,

00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:40.839
there are many things sort of dividing us and

00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:43.299
keeping us apart, but beekeeping, that's one

00:20:43.299 --> 00:20:46.880
thing that brings us together, and we love that

00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:50.319
perspective of it. When this episode comes out,

00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:53.259
we're only going to be a month or two away from

00:20:53.259 --> 00:20:55.579
the conference. Is it going to be too late for

00:20:55.579 --> 00:20:58.299
people to make plans now? I'm sure there are

00:20:58.299 --> 00:21:01.180
free tickets for the congress. But if you come

00:21:01.180 --> 00:21:04.339
from the States, it's a big thing to go to Europe.

00:21:04.579 --> 00:21:07.700
I know, but we will, even if you come to the

00:21:07.700 --> 00:21:10.279
door and buy a ticket, we will welcome you all

00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:14.819
with open eyes. Open arms, it's called. So it

00:21:14.819 --> 00:21:17.359
doesn't sell out. We'll be able to get in even

00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:19.960
if we're at the last minute. Yeah, the Bella

00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:22.779
Center, the venue, it's huge. We would just be

00:21:22.779 --> 00:21:25.160
happy. The more the merrier. And by the way,

00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:29.000
I will say for people that haven't been to Copenhagen,

00:21:29.259 --> 00:21:33.220
wow, beautiful place, wonderful people, great

00:21:33.220 --> 00:21:36.400
food. The conference would just be an added bonus

00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:38.900
on top of that. Visiting there is worth doing.

00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:42.940
And Copenhagen is an easy city to get around

00:21:42.940 --> 00:21:46.430
in as well. There's a metro in Copenhagen and

00:21:46.430 --> 00:21:49.109
as an Epimondia participant, you will be able

00:21:49.109 --> 00:21:52.769
to buy it for greatly reduced price of a week

00:21:52.769 --> 00:21:55.730
ticket. And you can go around in the whole of

00:21:55.730 --> 00:21:59.150
Copenhagen and it's very easy, I think. Okay.

00:21:59.369 --> 00:22:02.609
How about if we get Zofus on for a minute? Yeah.

00:22:03.650 --> 00:22:07.089
Oh, there he is. My beekeeping buddy. Hey, beekeeping

00:22:07.089 --> 00:22:09.009
buddy. I didn't want to leave you out of this

00:22:09.009 --> 00:22:11.490
thing. It's good to see you too. Thank you very

00:22:11.490 --> 00:22:14.480
much, Uri. And thanks for inviting us to talk

00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:17.180
about Appimondia and our beekeeping here in Denmark.

00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:20.119
If I can't make it to the conference this year,

00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:23.099
I will come see you guys sometime either way.

00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:26.099
Yes, we've been discussing whether or not we

00:22:26.099 --> 00:22:28.319
should invite everybody to come and visit us.

00:22:29.460 --> 00:22:32.059
And basically, everybody is very welcome, both

00:22:32.059 --> 00:22:35.079
in Denmark and also in our place. Oh, I didn't

00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:37.640
wait for an invitation. I just invited myself.

00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:42.319
Some of that Danish pastry. It's been too long.

00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:45.019
I need to come get some of that. Hey, how about

00:22:45.019 --> 00:22:48.519
if we let you tell us about your award -winning

00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:52.640
honey from 2017? When you actually won the award

00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.420
for the world's best honey, what does that mean?

00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:59.119
Why is your honey better than everybody else's?

00:22:59.619 --> 00:23:03.160
We won the Carl and Virginia Webb Trophy, the

00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:06.140
award for the best honey in the world, with our

00:23:06.140 --> 00:23:08.519
granulated honey, which was actually the first

00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:11.319
time granulated honey won. Do you know what your

00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:14.200
bees were foraging on to make that world's best

00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:17.539
honey? Yes. So we want the world's best honey

00:23:17.539 --> 00:23:20.680
with our spring honey. And it's a very light

00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:25.259
and mild granulated, creamed honey we make together

00:23:25.259 --> 00:23:28.019
with the bees. And the bees, they had been visiting

00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:33.539
the dandelion and all the fruit trees in the

00:23:33.539 --> 00:23:38.400
area, and then the rape. the rape flowers. And

00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:42.839
then there is a lot of the granola. Canola. What's

00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:46.599
it called in USA? Canola? Yeah, canola. We have

00:23:46.599 --> 00:23:48.799
a lot of canola here in Denmark and it makes

00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.019
this very light and mild honey. And the canola

00:23:52.019 --> 00:23:57.420
honey has a tendency of becoming very hard. And

00:23:57.420 --> 00:24:00.460
so every Danish beekeeper has to sort of learn

00:24:00.460 --> 00:24:03.220
how to treat it, how to stir it, and how to treat

00:24:03.220 --> 00:24:06.309
it so it... doesn't become that hard, but becomes

00:24:06.309 --> 00:24:10.029
spreadable and nice and soft and creamy. And

00:24:10.029 --> 00:24:13.890
Sufis and I, we are really good at that. So the

00:24:13.890 --> 00:24:17.910
consistency is just perfect. And that's always

00:24:17.910 --> 00:24:20.710
the craft of a granulated honey. It's to make

00:24:20.710 --> 00:24:23.849
the consistency perfect. So I think that's why

00:24:23.849 --> 00:24:27.930
it won. So what's your secret to keeping it spreadable,

00:24:28.190 --> 00:24:31.599
as you put it? Because the honey that my bees

00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:35.720
make, depending on the time of year, yeah, it

00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:39.900
can really get hard quite fast. Yeah. And so

00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:42.119
what's your secret? Is it a lot of stirring?

00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:47.099
Is it warm temperatures? So what we do is we

00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:50.000
seed our spring honey with a couple of jars of

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:52.519
spring honey from last year, because we want

00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:55.779
to make it. We want to make it a lot of tiny

00:24:55.779 --> 00:25:00.339
crystals. So it becomes a fine crystalline. We

00:25:00.339 --> 00:25:03.200
jar it on the right time. And then if it becomes

00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.640
hard, Eric, and I think this is the secret. You

00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:12.900
put it in 30 degrees for like 24 hours. And then

00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:15.960
you take it out in the cold again. We don't warm

00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:19.420
it up so it melts or anything, but 30 degrees

00:25:19.420 --> 00:25:24.180
sort of speeds up the process, this natural maturing

00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:27.529
process that the honey does in the jar. Instead

00:25:27.529 --> 00:25:30.690
of it taking half a year, it takes a day. And

00:25:30.690 --> 00:25:33.230
after that, our honey is spreadable and nice,

00:25:33.390 --> 00:25:38.049
and it stays that. And by the way, 30 degrees

00:25:38.049 --> 00:25:41.150
Celsius, that's about 86 degrees Fahrenheit.

00:25:41.630 --> 00:25:44.150
So let me make sure I get this straight. So you

00:25:44.150 --> 00:25:48.230
warm it to that temperature for one day, and

00:25:48.230 --> 00:25:51.849
then you cool it back down? Yeah, as quick as

00:25:51.849 --> 00:25:55.039
possible. We cool it down. And then the crystallization

00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:59.440
is just very smooth and consistent. Yeah, the

00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:02.720
heating doesn't change the crystal structure,

00:26:02.940 --> 00:26:06.859
but it makes the honey softer, and it stays soft

00:26:06.859 --> 00:26:09.900
even after we put it back into our honey storage.

00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:14.099
And then the other secret is when we do our honey

00:26:14.099 --> 00:26:17.240
treatment, when we seed the honey and we stir

00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:21.480
it, it has to be cold. It has to be below...

00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:28.980
below 19 and better 14 than 20 or better 5 degrees

00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:32.140
as 20. And what's that in Fahrenheit? I'm talking

00:26:32.140 --> 00:26:35.880
Celsius here. What's that in Fahrenheit? So 14

00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:39.279
degrees, that's about 57 degrees Fahrenheit.

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:42.480
Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty cold. So that's not

00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:46.319
as cold as a refrigerator, but that's pretty

00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:51.220
chilly. Yeah, and I would always choose to have

00:26:51.220 --> 00:26:54.559
it in a refrigerator, if it was possible, instead

00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:59.200
of having it in 20 or 22 degrees. Because if

00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:02.099
it's too hot, you'll get larger crystals. And

00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:05.299
if it's cold, you'll get smaller crystals. Okay.

00:27:05.660 --> 00:27:08.660
We're all learning something here today. Thank

00:27:08.660 --> 00:27:12.180
you for that. If you don't seed it with last

00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:14.619
year's honey, it's still going to crystallize,

00:27:14.619 --> 00:27:17.910
right? Yeah. But just in a way that you don't

00:27:17.910 --> 00:27:21.130
like as much? Is that why you seed it? Well,

00:27:21.289 --> 00:27:26.410
it's not a matter of liking it. We call it a

00:27:26.410 --> 00:27:29.589
crystal honey if it has very coarse crystals.

00:27:29.730 --> 00:27:32.650
And we make some of it each year because some

00:27:32.650 --> 00:27:35.410
people like it very much. They had it in their

00:27:35.410 --> 00:27:38.509
childhood. You know, the honey you had as a kid,

00:27:39.089 --> 00:27:42.309
it's still the best honey in the world. And the

00:27:42.309 --> 00:27:46.720
honey I had as a kid, was this finely crystallized

00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:50.819
cream spring honey. So my granddad was a beekeeper

00:27:50.819 --> 00:27:54.240
and I'm raised on huge amounts of Danish spring

00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.940
honey. So that's the one I like most. And Sufis'

00:27:58.099 --> 00:28:01.819
favorite is the Heather honey. It's darker and

00:28:01.819 --> 00:28:04.279
it's more tasteful, but we don't have Heather

00:28:04.279 --> 00:28:06.900
here where we live. So we ended up participating

00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:11.960
in these championships with the mild spring honey.

00:28:12.250 --> 00:28:15.089
Yeah, we had a beekeeper a few months ago on

00:28:15.089 --> 00:28:18.009
the show that was from Scotland and they made

00:28:18.009 --> 00:28:20.910
Heather honey there. Yeah. He was saying how

00:28:20.910 --> 00:28:22.769
wonderful it is. That is something I haven't

00:28:22.769 --> 00:28:25.569
tried yet, so I'm going to do that. I just want

00:28:25.569 --> 00:28:28.369
to get a couple of definitions out there for

00:28:28.369 --> 00:28:30.730
people that are new to beekeeping and honey.

00:28:32.130 --> 00:28:35.750
Crystallization is completely normal for honey,

00:28:36.250 --> 00:28:38.990
okay? Yes. It does not mean it's gone bad. When

00:28:38.990 --> 00:28:42.630
we use other terms like creamed honey, That is

00:28:42.630 --> 00:28:46.630
honey that has been crystallized, but the crystals

00:28:46.630 --> 00:28:50.690
are very fine and so it's a very creamy substance

00:28:50.690 --> 00:28:55.730
kind of honey. Yeah. Versus honey can also get

00:28:55.730 --> 00:28:59.250
larger crystals that are almost like, I don't

00:28:59.250 --> 00:29:02.349
know, like BB size and everything in between.

00:29:02.730 --> 00:29:05.750
And none of those means there's something wrong

00:29:05.750 --> 00:29:09.349
with the honey. If you take a honey in any of

00:29:09.349 --> 00:29:12.609
those states and warm it enough, it will go back

00:29:12.609 --> 00:29:17.250
to a liquid kind of form. Some honeys crystallize

00:29:17.250 --> 00:29:20.569
faster than others, some crystallize in a more

00:29:20.569 --> 00:29:24.289
creamy way, some in a more coarse way. I think

00:29:24.289 --> 00:29:27.470
they're all good and they all have their own

00:29:27.470 --> 00:29:31.210
place out there. Yeah, and that's the great thing

00:29:31.210 --> 00:29:34.390
about honey. tastes wonderfully, even though

00:29:34.390 --> 00:29:37.009
you can make different products out of it. I

00:29:37.009 --> 00:29:40.289
often also get asked by people, well, why isn't

00:29:40.289 --> 00:29:43.009
the honey in the grocery store crystallizing?

00:29:43.450 --> 00:29:46.349
I'm not sure how it is in Denmark, but the answer

00:29:46.349 --> 00:29:49.650
to most people here in the States is usually

00:29:49.650 --> 00:29:53.210
that honey has been pasteurized at a high enough

00:29:53.210 --> 00:29:56.750
level that it's sort of killed that process.

00:29:57.009 --> 00:30:00.309
And so that honey is going to stay liquid for

00:30:00.309 --> 00:30:03.920
much, much, much longer. But you've also damaged

00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:07.759
the honey by heating it too much. Yeah. The qualities

00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:10.640
that come with the raw honey, many of those are

00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:14.920
now gone. Yeah. So we try to sort of work with

00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:18.099
the honey and its nature instead of fighting

00:30:18.099 --> 00:30:21.259
with it and heating it up in order to make it

00:30:21.259 --> 00:30:24.519
stay liquid for longer. All right. You told me

00:30:24.519 --> 00:30:26.940
that you had a good wild and crazy beekeeping

00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:30.740
story, Lars. Yeah. Go for it. What happened?

00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:35.119
So a few years ago, Eric, we had bees on the

00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:38.740
top of a hotel roof. It was a wonderful flat

00:30:38.740 --> 00:30:42.279
roof. We have a beautiful view. We could see

00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:45.079
all the trees in the city. And on that roof,

00:30:45.140 --> 00:30:47.940
there were two small houses, you know, where

00:30:47.940 --> 00:30:51.880
the elevator goes up. And we soon found out that

00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:54.380
that little house, that's a perfect place to

00:30:54.380 --> 00:30:58.099
put our smoker. Then we don't have to sort of

00:30:58.099 --> 00:31:00.299
bring the smoker in the car every time. We can

00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:03.259
just put it off and then put it in there. And

00:31:03.259 --> 00:31:07.880
that's what we did until one day we were there.

00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:10.680
And then the manager of this hotel, he came to

00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:14.000
us and he said, well, guys, I had a visit the

00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:17.759
other day. Yeah. We said, yeah, suddenly the

00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:20.839
fire department was here. The fire alarm in the

00:31:20.839 --> 00:31:23.920
hotel went off. We had this inkling where this

00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:27.319
conversation would bring, would turn to, would

00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:32.480
go. Yeah. So all the guests, they went out on

00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.859
the street and the fire department, they came

00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:37.200
and they had this little machine. They could

00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.319
sort of track where the smoke was coming from

00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:45.200
and they tracked it to your smoker. And we were

00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:48.920
very pale at that point because obviously we

00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:53.599
did not put our smoker out as efficient as we

00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:57.160
thought we were. And we could sort of imagine

00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:00.460
this bill, 100 ,000 kroner or something coming

00:32:00.460 --> 00:32:03.160
our way and all the guests standing in their

00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:06.180
night robes. Luckily, he was very, very killed

00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:10.359
about it. And the fire department was too, because

00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:12.960
when they were there, they discovered that they

00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:16.140
needed to sort of draw the hotel again and make

00:32:16.140 --> 00:32:19.880
new drawings with all the rooms on and you are

00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:22.380
here and where is the newest fire extinguisher.

00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:26.000
So they ended up doing that instead. So Sufis

00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:30.380
and I, we got no bill, but we got a giant wake

00:32:30.380 --> 00:32:34.000
-up call, always, always to put out our smoker.

00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:36.740
And I think the trouble was we didn't put it

00:32:36.740 --> 00:32:39.779
out as efficiently as we thought we were. And

00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:43.660
then this elevator, it worked like it made a

00:32:43.660 --> 00:32:47.339
lot of wind in this house. So the smoke was drawn

00:32:47.339 --> 00:32:51.440
down all the six floors, where then they could

00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:55.200
smell the smoke, the guests. I think we were

00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:59.140
very, very lucky. I think you were too. Yeah.

00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:01.960
Not to get a big bill for that one, but hey,

00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:04.819
that is a good reminder for us. Yeah, it is.

00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:07.220
Yeah. It took a few weeks and we can laugh about

00:33:07.220 --> 00:33:09.380
it. Yeah. We want to make sure that those things

00:33:09.380 --> 00:33:12.440
are really all the way out. How do you put it

00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:15.660
all the way out now? Well, we basically, we empty

00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:19.980
it and we step on it really hard. Yeah. And then

00:33:19.980 --> 00:33:22.759
we want to buy a metal box for it, but we haven't

00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:25.559
gotten that far yet. Actually, we don't use the

00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:28.460
smoker that much anymore. Only if we have some

00:33:28.460 --> 00:33:31.640
bee families who are really angry for some reason.

00:33:31.900 --> 00:33:34.660
But mostly we just use a wet towel and we place

00:33:34.660 --> 00:33:37.519
it on top of the boxes. That works really well

00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:41.500
for us. Explain that. So is that like you take

00:33:41.500 --> 00:33:45.039
a lid off and then you put a wet towel on? So

00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:48.240
when we open the beehives and we take apart the

00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:52.289
boxes, Instead of having boxes open, we put a

00:33:52.289 --> 00:33:56.490
wet towel on top of each box. And then when we

00:33:56.490 --> 00:33:59.829
work in a box, we sort of take the towel to the

00:33:59.829 --> 00:34:03.029
side and we can take out the frames and put the

00:34:03.029 --> 00:34:06.150
towel back in a way. And if the towel is wet,

00:34:06.549 --> 00:34:09.449
the bees, they go down a bit. So when we put

00:34:09.449 --> 00:34:12.010
the boxes back together on top of each other,

00:34:12.429 --> 00:34:15.650
when we take the towel off, bees are a few centimeters

00:34:15.650 --> 00:34:18.409
down and we can put up, put on the next box.

00:34:19.069 --> 00:34:21.630
without crushing too many bees or crushing bees.

00:34:22.130 --> 00:34:24.130
I've never heard of that before. I'm going to

00:34:24.130 --> 00:34:27.969
try it. Yeah, do that. Make it wet so it's wet

00:34:27.969 --> 00:34:30.690
and cold. And it's not so wet that it's dripping

00:34:30.690 --> 00:34:34.630
in the hive, right? It's just very moist. Yeah.

00:34:35.150 --> 00:34:38.849
We put it under the water and then we sort of

00:34:38.849 --> 00:34:41.829
squeeze it as much as we can. Get the extra water

00:34:41.829 --> 00:34:45.349
out. So then you take a lid off. You put it on

00:34:45.349 --> 00:34:48.500
top of the frames. And then you just peel back

00:34:48.500 --> 00:34:50.780
a little bit at a time to pull a frame out, put

00:34:50.780 --> 00:34:54.619
it back in. Yeah. Or you can just have it on

00:34:54.619 --> 00:34:57.260
the other boxes and have it off the box you're

00:34:57.260 --> 00:35:00.960
working with, if that's easier for you. I love

00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:03.360
how we can learn from each other. Yeah, I hope

00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:06.179
it works for you too. I don't know the bees you

00:35:06.179 --> 00:35:08.400
have over there. Oh, they're bees that like wet

00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:13.699
towels, I'm sure. Yeah. Now we primarily here

00:35:13.699 --> 00:35:17.659
in the States have Italians, Carniolans. There

00:35:17.659 --> 00:35:20.920
are others and there are some that get very grumpy

00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:24.219
and we'll let you know it. We also have parts

00:35:24.219 --> 00:35:26.780
of the States, especially in the South, where

00:35:26.780 --> 00:35:30.659
we have Africanized genetics have moved in. And

00:35:30.659 --> 00:35:33.219
so these are not as friendly. I don't believe

00:35:33.219 --> 00:35:36.420
you have those. Do you have other pest problems?

00:35:36.579 --> 00:35:38.500
Like are you getting the yellow -legged hornet

00:35:38.500 --> 00:35:41.809
where you are? Well, we've been looking out for

00:35:41.809 --> 00:35:44.610
it for the last years, because we know it's in

00:35:44.610 --> 00:35:48.150
Europe, we know it's on its way up. And then

00:35:48.150 --> 00:35:52.090
as late as last week, a beekeeper here on the

00:35:52.090 --> 00:35:55.489
island where we live, Thun, he enjoyed a beer

00:35:55.489 --> 00:35:58.809
on his terrace, and suddenly a yellow -legged

00:35:58.809 --> 00:36:02.320
hornet jumped down in his beer. And that's the

00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:04.480
only one we've ever seen in Denmark that was

00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:07.099
in this man's beer who got quite famous. Now

00:36:07.099 --> 00:36:09.579
we are even looking even more for it because

00:36:09.579 --> 00:36:12.099
we have to keep an eye on it. Well, it had to

00:36:12.099 --> 00:36:14.880
come from somewhere and they don't all commit

00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:18.400
suicide in beer. No, there must be some hive

00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:22.079
somewhere. So I'm sure it's just a matter of

00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:25.460
time because we have hoped that the winters would

00:36:25.460 --> 00:36:28.800
be too cold here. for it to thrive. But the winters

00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.400
here in Denmark, they get warmer and warmer for

00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:34.599
each year. So I think we have it now. Hey, one

00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:37.239
other topic that is a big one, but we'll try

00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:39.679
to touch on it just quickly. And that is, do

00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:41.679
you have a lot of problems with varroa mites

00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:44.360
there? We have to have a good strategy and we

00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:47.300
have to keep it at bay like you have. And most

00:36:47.300 --> 00:36:49.940
beekeepers in Denmark, they use a different kind

00:36:49.940 --> 00:36:53.119
of organic acids to treat their varroa mites.

00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:57.460
Like oxalic acid? Formic acid. And then the last

00:36:57.460 --> 00:37:01.480
years, many beekeepers have started using sticks

00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:04.800
with oxalic acid and glycerin. You put it down

00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:06.920
and it stays there for a month. And it's also

00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:10.460
a really effective treatment against the varomites.

00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:13.900
But everyone has to have a strategy of which

00:37:13.900 --> 00:37:17.659
time to treat and to keep an eye on it. Okay.

00:37:17.699 --> 00:37:22.099
Very last thing for both you and Zofus. And that

00:37:22.099 --> 00:37:26.019
is I can tell that you guys love honeybees. and

00:37:26.019 --> 00:37:29.119
beekeeping. Tell me what it is that you love

00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:31.820
about it so much. Tofus, what do we love about

00:37:31.820 --> 00:37:35.019
honeybees? We love being together with the bees

00:37:35.019 --> 00:37:37.179
and being together with each other and being

00:37:37.179 --> 00:37:40.380
together with other beekeepers, being together

00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:43.280
with you here, making adventure. It's like a

00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:46.179
magic world. The beekeeping is like a magic world.

00:37:46.380 --> 00:37:50.460
And you never really get fully educated in beekeeping.

00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:52.980
I like that very much. There's always something

00:37:52.980 --> 00:37:57.360
new to learn, but there's always also new things

00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:03.780
to invent or small new wooden things to make

00:38:03.780 --> 00:38:05.980
that you can use in your beekeeping. There's

00:38:05.980 --> 00:38:09.239
always something new to try out. I like that.

00:38:09.900 --> 00:38:12.679
And people working with bees tend to be very

00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:15.719
enthusiastic and energetic. And I really like

00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:18.219
this. You know, when you work in the beehives,

00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:21.380
you have to use all your senses. You look at

00:38:21.380 --> 00:38:24.480
the bees, you can see how they are, you listen

00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:27.639
to them, you can listen to their sound, how they

00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:30.860
are and how they thrive. But you can also smell,

00:38:31.139 --> 00:38:33.840
if the beehive smells bad, we can smell where

00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:38.179
the queen is in the beehive. Because we tried

00:38:38.179 --> 00:38:41.179
it out, especially in the spring, we can smell

00:38:41.179 --> 00:38:44.179
on top of the frames and we can smell where she

00:38:44.179 --> 00:38:47.880
is. And I love this. It's the thing for all the

00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:50.119
senses when you work in the bees and you sort

00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:54.340
of you have to be fully present. Also not to

00:38:54.340 --> 00:38:56.840
crush bees because if you are hurry or stressed

00:38:56.840 --> 00:39:00.059
or anything you crush bees and I hate that or

00:39:00.059 --> 00:39:03.400
you get stung. Hey Lars and Sophus, thank you

00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:05.780
so much for being with me and we'll have a link

00:39:05.780 --> 00:39:08.579
in the show notes for anybody that wants to look

00:39:08.579 --> 00:39:11.440
up and learn more about Apomondia. You guys have

00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:14.239
been awesome. I love talking to people that love

00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:16.340
bees and I'm going to get a wet towel and take

00:39:16.340 --> 00:39:19.920
it out with me next time. Try that again. Could

00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:22.940
you put a link on to our YouTube channel as well?

00:39:23.500 --> 00:39:26.780
Yes. Send me that link and I'll post it as well.

00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:31.719
We have a playlist on that YouTube channel with

00:39:31.719 --> 00:39:36.679
English subtitles. Subtitles. Subtitles. And

00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:38.900
they are really great, our videos, we think.

00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:45.960
Alright, sounds fantastic. Thanks guys. Thanks

00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:48.099
again for joining us here on Be Love, Be Keep

00:39:48.099 --> 00:39:51.960
being presented by Man Lake. Remember right now

00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:55.000
to follow or subscribe and share this podcast.

00:39:55.500 --> 00:39:58.559
Also a shout out to V2B Health for their support

00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:02.210
of the show. Vita's Varroa Control range of products

00:40:02.210 --> 00:40:06.949
includes Apistan, Apigard, and now Veroxan Extended

00:40:06.949 --> 00:40:10.150
Release Oxalic Acids Trips. Hey thanks guys,

00:40:10.429 --> 00:40:13.309
we really appreciate it. Enjoy this beautiful

00:40:13.309 --> 00:40:16.269
summer, enjoy your bees, and remember, if you're

00:40:16.269 --> 00:40:19.130
not just in it for the honey or the money, you're

00:40:19.130 --> 00:40:21.150
in it for the love. See you next week.