July 10, 2025

Honey Bees vs. Native Bees... What every beekeeper needs to know.

Honey Bees vs. Native Bees... What every beekeeper needs to know.
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Honey Bees vs. Native Bees... What every beekeeper needs to know.

In this special episode of Bee Love Beekeeping, we take a step away from our usual beekeeper interviews to explore an important and sometimes misunderstood topic: the relationship between honeybees and native bees. With headlines circulating like “Americans Are Saving the Wrong Bees” and “Honeybee Invasion,” it’s time to dig deeper into the science and separate fact from fear. Are honeybees really hurting native bees, or is the truth more nuanced?

To help us answer that, we’re joined by Jennifer Michelle, a sustainable health strategist with a background in public health, epidemiology, and medical entomology. Jennifer offers a broad and informed perspective on pollinator health, emphasizing how ecological systems, human planning, and individual actions all contribute to the wellbeing of both honeybees and native species. She outlines the key differences between them—solitary vs. social, seasonal vs. year-round activity, generalists vs. specialists—and explains how those differences can create unintended consequences when habitat is scarce.

Rather than painting honeybees as villains, Jennifer stresses that lack of habitat, pesticides, and overdevelopment are the real threats. Honeybees may intensify competition, but they’re not the root problem. Instead, she urges beekeepers to become part of the solution: planting native flowers, reducing pesticide use, and encouraging cities to rethink how they landscape public spaces. Jennifer shares success stories and cautionary tales, from London's overcrowded apiaries to the benefits of native pussy willow trees as early spring forage.

The episode closes with practical tools for identifying native plants in your region, ways to advocate for pollinator-friendly policies in your community, and a reminder that education—not outrage—is the path forward. With warmth and humor, Jennifer makes the case for coexistence and cooperation. Beekeepers, gardeners, and nature lovers alike will find this episode both eye-opening and empowering.

There's even a wild & crazy story that involves a renaissance fair, big skirts, and bee stings.

Love what you’re learning? Help us grow by subscribing, rating, and sharing the show with your fellow bee lovers. Got a burning question for a future episode? Reach out at eric@beelovebeekeeping.com

______________

Special thanks to our presenting sponsor, Mann Lake! https://www.mannlakeltd.com/

Mann Lake discount code: MLBEELOVE10 for $10 off your first $100 order.

https://www.beelovebeekeeping.com/

Eric@BeeLoveBeekeeping.com

Jennifer Michelle: https://greentownconsulting.com/

WEBVTT

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Welcome welcome to Be Love Beekeeping presented

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by the experts over at Man Lake. We're doing

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something different today as the team is currently

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all in preparing for next week's launch of the

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future of Be Love Beekeeping podcast. I'll just

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tease it like that and say be sure to come back

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next week for a funny new opener, a great new

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guest, and an entirely new format. And today

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shows a little different too in that we're not

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having a conversation with a beekeeper, but we

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will be talking all about honey bees and native

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bees. I don't know about you, but lately I've

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seen all kinds of articles popping up with clickbait

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titles about how honey bees are killing off the

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native bees. Here's one headline. Want to save

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the bees? focused on habitat, not honey bees.

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Here's a few others. Your bees are hurting native

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pollinators. Hungry honey bees threaten food

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supply of native pollinators. Americans are saving

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the wrong bees. The problem with honey bees.

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Honeybee invasion, a growing threat to native

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pollinators. And lastly, voracious honeybees

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threaten the food supply of native bees. I've

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even had someone who when finding out that I'm

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a beekeeper started giving me a hard time about

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how I'm hurting the native bees. Granted, that's

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still rare. Most people when they discover I'm

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a beekeeper ask the one question, You know what

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you want I'm talking about. Do you ever get stung?

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Today's guest is Jennifer Michelle. She's an

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expert on native pollinators and what we can

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all do to help them. Does that mean getting rid

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of your beehives? Let's find out. I would love

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to welcome to the show today, Jennifer Michelle,

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coming to us from... Uh -oh, I have to check

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my notes. Jennifer, where are you from? I live

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in upstate New York, so I'm a little bit north

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of Saratoga. That's right. We had talked about

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animals in your area last time. Anyway, welcome

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to the show. I'm going to let our listeners know

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this is going to be a very unusual episode because

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even though we're talking about honey bees, we're

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talking about other kinds of bees and pollinators.

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And we're talking with someone who's not a regular

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beekeeper. Not a beekeeper. But Jennifer, welcome.

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We're happy to have you here. Would you just

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take 30 seconds or a minute and give us an idea

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of your background so we know where you're coming

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from in this conversation? Well, I'm a sustainable

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health strategist. So really what I try and do

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is help people bring public health into their

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discussions of infrastructure. And I include

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ecological health with that, which is how I work

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on the issues of bees. So my background's public

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health and epidemiology, but I did a lot with

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medical entomology as well. And over the course

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of my career, I've expanded that into sustainability

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and began with pollinators, so ecology as well.

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So I've kind of taken all the pieces of that

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jigsaw. and brought it together. Now I do consulting

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and try to help municipalities and engineering

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firms understand how to make communities healthier,

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not just for humans, but for bees as well. So

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Jennifer was referred to us by Cindy, who was

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on the show recently. You had spoken at their

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bee club in a talk that I guess was called What

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Beekeepers Need to Know About Native Bees. Yep.

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I want to start right there. Why does a beekeeper

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need to know anything about native bees? Well,

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because native bees are endangered because native

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bees are impacted by honey bees and because if

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we think about bees the way we think about honey

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bees, we can negatively impact native bees. But

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if we think about bees like native bees, we can

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help native bees and honey bees. So let's get

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into some of the nitty gritty. Let's talk about

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native plants. Let's talk about pesticides. Yep.

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Let's talk about monocropping. Where do you want

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to start? Well, first of all, I'm going to say

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that I consider myself a bee enthusiast. I'm

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not a bee expert. So if anybody wants to learn

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a lot about native bees, I'm first going to give

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a plug to Heather Holm, who I think has written

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fantastic books about bees and native wasps.

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So I always say, if you read something that she's

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written that disagrees with what I said, you

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go by what she wrote. So just always want to

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say that. Yeah, let's dive in. Where should we

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start? The 4 ,000 different species of native

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bees in North America or the honey bees? Yeah,

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let's talk about these native species of bees.

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Okay. I was in a class here in Utah a few years

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ago, this advanced beekeeping class, and we had

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somebody from Utah State University who studies

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native bees, and he had done this big project

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in southern Utah. And in a small area, he identified

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600 different bee species. I thought that was

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unbelievable. I had no idea. It kind of blew

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my mind. And he said, just in our state alone,

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there are 2 ,000 different species of bees. Give

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me some background on that. I mean, where are

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they? How are they here? They're everywhere.

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This is their continent. This is their home.

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So honeybees were brought in from Europe. And

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they're a single species for the most part. one

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species and they were brought here because people

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like honey. So that's how they got here but they're

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not native here and yet there are a ton of flowering

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plants here and there are a ton of different

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kinds of trees and flowers and all kinds of plant

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life that require help from pollinators. So native

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bees are really good at that. And in fact, they

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still are the best at pollinating our forests

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and our wetlands and our wild areas. They also

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help with crop pollination, but obviously that's

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more of a honeybee forte. But they can help each

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other sometimes too. I think one of the reasons

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that it pricked my interest to talk to you specifically

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was because from time to time, I hear someone

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who has read some kind of a news story about

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how with a headline and not a lot of detail,

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headline how honey bees are killing the native

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bees. And so I figure it's just a topic we should

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know a little bit more about because we're not

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the bad guys. Honey bees aren't bad guys. So

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talk us through that whole relationship a little

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bit. Well, I kind of feel like that's just a

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weird way that people think right now. People

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get very polarized. There's a good guy and a

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villain. And life is more complicated than that.

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And I tend to think that what we keep forgetting

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is that it's really a question of balance. And

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right now, things are not as imbalanced as they

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need to be. And that's why there are such impacts

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right now on native bees. So when I give the

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talk that I gave to Cindy's group, I always start

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with how they're similar, and then I go into

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how they're different. And once you start knowing

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those differences, it starts like, I don't then

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need to tell you why honeybees might be. having

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such an impact on native bees, you start to get

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it. So just to go through a couple of things,

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90 % of our native bees are solitary. So they

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don't live in a hive at all. There is just one

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female who... spends her life she's going to

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maybe lay 15 maybe 40 eggs in a lifetime and

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for each one she is going to gather up pollen

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she's going to gather up nectar and she's going

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to dig a little nest maybe in the ground 70 %

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of our bees nest in the ground 30 % nest in cavities

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like um stalks of plants or logs or things like

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that but she will chew her way and down and make

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a cell and lay one egg on this little bit of

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bee bread that she makes and seal it in and then

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do it again. So she doesn't have a hive of sisters

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to help her. If she can't find the food that

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she needs, no one can do that little waggle dance

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to help her out. There's no one to help her.

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There's no one else who's going to be her backup.

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They also, as a general rule, don't fly as far

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as honeybees. So that becomes a big issue. Some

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of them might only fly like 300 feet or something

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in their lifetime. They are very tiny, some of

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the size of like a grain of rice. So they have

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an entirely different physiology and different

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life cycle. And while honeybees are active the

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whole season, Native bees might be active for

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only a few weeks as adults in the season. So

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if the plants that they need are not there when

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they need them, there's not really much they

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can do. There are just differences in the life

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cycle. It depends on who you read, but 20 to

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40 % of our native bees are what they call specialists,

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which means they need a specific pollen to feed

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their baby. It's kind of like monarchs and milkweed.

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Their baby food is milkweed. If you want monarchs,

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it doesn't matter how many butterflies you see

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on other plants. If there's no milkweed, there

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will be no monarchs. And it's the same with our

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native bees. Many of them need a specific pollen

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from a specific native plant, or they literally

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have no food for their babies and they die out.

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So what's going on is we have, for the last,

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you know, bit by bit over the last several decades,

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we have removed a lot of habitat. We put in asphalt.

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We've put in concrete. We put in a lot of lawn

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where there used to be flowering plants that

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were what these native bees needed. And then

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on top of that, we brought in honeybees, which

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are, well, I mean, how many thousands and thousands

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and thousands of bees are in a hive. But a native

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bumblebee hive might have 500 bees in it. So,

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in their annual, they die out at the end of the

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season and one female will start it up again

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the next year or she'll overwinter. So, they

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have very different life cycles. So, having a

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honeybee hive near native bees can quickly overwhelm

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that food source because the honeybees will be

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able to fly farther and eat more and they can

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eat from a wider variety than some of our native

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bees. So, that's the idea. And the number that

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you hear, the statistics that they've seen show

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that. Honey bees can eat in a single season what

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100 ,000 of our native bees can eat. So it is

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a large impact. So my answer to that isn't get

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rid of the honey bees. My answer to that is,

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well, the real issue is lack of habitat. So that's

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why I come back to, why don't we plant native

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flowers, native species? Those native plants

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help honey bees, but they especially help native

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bees. There you go. Well, I appreciate that.

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I really don't think it's an either or. It's

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honeybees or native bees. I think there's ways

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to coexist. And some of the things that you mentioned

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like planting native habitat is so foreign in

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so many of our cities and suburbs and things,

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but it's something that's got to be done. Now,

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is that some of the consulting that you do? Well,

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I certainly help if a municipality is thinking

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of putting in an apiary, I would help them want

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to think about, well, what kind of native plants

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are you planting there? Because I always say

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that honey bees are one of the few animals that

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you can get, and you don't necessarily need to

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provide food for them. If you think there's a

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field nearby, I mean, you're going to take care

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of them in the winter and all these things, but

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it's not like a chicken where you have to have

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so much feed or so much land if it's cattle.

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So that's something to help people think about

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if you're going to start raising honeybees. Where

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are the native plants that you're adding and

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the actual numbers that I've seen is they recommend

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five acres of native plants per hive Which is

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a huge amount and more than most people could

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do so that's where I get excited because to me

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that means Honey beekeepers can become advocates

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for native plants and pollinator pathways and

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pocket parks in their community as they're advocating

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for municipalities to switch from having tons

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of lawn for no reason, tons of pocket parks with

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non -native plants, put that plant forage back

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in there and help all of the bees. So that's

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what I try and do. I also try and encourage people

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to think a little bit. If you're right near a

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wilderness area that has a lot of biodiversity,

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maybe you don't want apiaries too close. Maybe

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think of how far the bees might fly and maybe

00:12:37.610 --> 00:12:39.370
space it out a little bit, maybe four or five

00:12:39.370 --> 00:12:42.549
miles away. And the reason for that is also that

00:12:42.909 --> 00:12:45.429
honey bees will often be very happy with some

00:12:45.429 --> 00:12:47.509
of the invasive plants that are in our areas

00:12:47.509 --> 00:12:50.149
that are not good for our native bees. And so

00:12:50.149 --> 00:12:52.750
that can be spread more by them. So keeping them

00:12:52.750 --> 00:12:56.230
separate from places with native plant biodiversity,

00:12:56.570 --> 00:12:59.009
like more wilderness areas, that can help out.

00:12:59.029 --> 00:13:01.929
So it's just thinking about balance. It's about

00:13:01.929 --> 00:13:04.929
how do we think about where they are and what

00:13:04.929 --> 00:13:07.210
we're feeding everybody. But it's not just to

00:13:07.210 --> 00:13:09.659
help native bees. There was a beekeeping trend

00:13:09.659 --> 00:13:13.000
in London in 2013, and I actually would have

00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.340
to look it up. I think they had like, what was

00:13:15.340 --> 00:13:18.440
it, like 10 hives per square mile in London.

00:13:18.779 --> 00:13:21.559
There's no plants for that, so their bees died.

00:13:24.980 --> 00:13:27.200
Quick break to thank our presenting sponsor,

00:13:27.539 --> 00:13:30.299
Man Lake. Whether you're a beekeeper or not,

00:13:30.659 --> 00:13:33.759
you know that nutrition is key for healthy honeybees,

00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:37.320
native bees, and other pollinators. The Man Lake

00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:40.360
app is a great resource for determining pollinator

00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:43.659
friendly plants that thrive in your area. And

00:13:43.659 --> 00:13:46.840
its plant identification feature is super helpful

00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:50.220
and fun. When I see a plant covered in bees,

00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:53.639
I fire up the app on my phone, I find out what

00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:56.480
that plant is, and then I can put them in my

00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:00.419
own yard. The bees love it. If you haven't already

00:14:00.419 --> 00:14:03.059
downloaded the Man Lake app, give it a try today.

00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:10.840
Oh, and by the way, it's free. A couple years

00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:13.519
ago, Slovenia, they're a very big honey culture.

00:14:13.700 --> 00:14:16.340
They're big on bees. And it got so popular that

00:14:16.340 --> 00:14:19.059
they were having more hives but less honey because

00:14:19.059 --> 00:14:21.899
there wasn't enough food. So people have to start

00:14:21.899 --> 00:14:24.240
thinking about that. It's really, is there enough

00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.740
food for all of them? And the answer is probably

00:14:26.740 --> 00:14:30.240
not. And we can fix that. It's an easy fix. We

00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:32.759
can plant. We can plant the species native to

00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:35.679
our area. So one of the things that I have found

00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:38.940
personally, and I have mentioned our pussy willow

00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:42.059
tree on this show before, but I absolutely love

00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:43.940
this thing. I'm going to be planting a few more

00:14:43.940 --> 00:14:47.519
of them. I love it because where I am, it's the

00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:51.139
very first food source that the bees have in

00:14:51.139 --> 00:14:54.179
the spring. Yep. When I go out to this tree,

00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:59.000
I see honeybees, a few different kinds of native

00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:03.539
bees, bumblebees. butterflies, and they all seem

00:15:03.539 --> 00:15:06.139
to be getting along great. And they're all foraging

00:15:06.139 --> 00:15:10.279
on this tree just fine. So is that an example

00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:13.240
of how they can get along? I mean, hopefully

00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:16.659
that's not pushing some native bees out. Or is

00:15:16.659 --> 00:15:20.179
it? I think it's about quantity. You know, is

00:15:20.179 --> 00:15:22.700
there enough of the willow to go around? I mean,

00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.360
I don't think people realize how much forest

00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:30.639
and how much prairie we have removed. So if you

00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:32.980
really look around your neighborhoods, you are

00:15:32.980 --> 00:15:35.820
going to see these big mown lawns everywhere.

00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:37.980
You're going to see a lot of road. You might

00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:41.539
see sidewalk. We've removed what used to be solid

00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:45.179
prairie, solid forest. So you can always add

00:15:45.179 --> 00:15:47.519
more, in my opinion. And I very much advocate

00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:50.179
for people replacing lawn with pollinator gardens.

00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.639
Doesn't mean you can't have some lawn. It just

00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:55.279
means think about how much lawn you really need

00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:56.879
and is there something else you could do with

00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:00.490
it. So willow is very nutritious. It's especially

00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:04.090
good for a lot of native bees, and it has a very

00:16:04.090 --> 00:16:07.129
high protein count compared to some other pollens

00:16:07.129 --> 00:16:09.509
like dandelion, which is not native. So it's

00:16:09.509 --> 00:16:12.230
very nutritious, and it's very desirable. And

00:16:12.230 --> 00:16:14.590
at least in my area, it blooms very early. So

00:16:14.590 --> 00:16:16.909
it's very good for native bees who are waking

00:16:16.909 --> 00:16:19.309
up after the winter and need food right away.

00:16:19.690 --> 00:16:22.629
So it's great. I'd say plant more. Let it spread.

00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:26.259
So how do we balance the whole fact that we need

00:16:26.259 --> 00:16:29.580
more housing, so we need more development, yet

00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:32.440
we need prairie and we need all this other stuff?

00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:35.080
I think that's part of what you do in your consulting

00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:38.399
is helping municipalities figure out a good balance.

00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:41.620
Well, you really, it's not a choice with housing.

00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:45.019
It's the way we landscape and it's the way we

00:16:45.019 --> 00:16:49.120
build. You can create a lot of housing and have

00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:52.590
pollinator gardens. instead of lawn. You can

00:16:52.590 --> 00:16:55.490
create a beautiful city and have rooftop gardens

00:16:55.490 --> 00:16:57.710
that are filled with native plants. You can have

00:16:57.710 --> 00:17:00.110
a beautiful city that has a lot of shade trees

00:17:00.110 --> 00:17:02.730
that are native instead of non -native trees

00:17:02.730 --> 00:17:04.589
that don't provide the same habitat in their

00:17:04.589 --> 00:17:07.990
parks. You can create roadways that are not just

00:17:07.990 --> 00:17:10.470
asphalt with concrete and have lots of trees

00:17:10.470 --> 00:17:13.029
and under those trees you could have little native

00:17:13.029 --> 00:17:15.549
plant gardens all along the sidewalk. These have

00:17:15.549 --> 00:17:18.049
multiple benefits for a community. It's not just

00:17:18.049 --> 00:17:20.589
for their bees. It's not just for the other It

00:17:20.589 --> 00:17:23.589
also makes it a cooler city. Even plants that

00:17:23.589 --> 00:17:26.769
don't provide shade cool the air around them

00:17:26.769 --> 00:17:30.170
just because of the way they do transpiration.

00:17:30.349 --> 00:17:32.789
So they're always putting moisture back in. So

00:17:32.789 --> 00:17:35.390
there are multiple benefits, plus drainage. One

00:17:35.390 --> 00:17:37.769
of the things that happens when you have a lot

00:17:37.769 --> 00:17:43.029
of asphalt and brick and lawn is the storm water,

00:17:43.029 --> 00:17:45.750
when it comes, doesn't drain into the ground

00:17:45.750 --> 00:17:48.740
like it should. And so that leads to flooding.

00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.240
It can overwhelm sewer systems. But if you have

00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:53.740
native plant gardens, they will absorb that.

00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:55.720
And we've seen that in our yard. We used to get

00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:58.140
like big standing water every year when it rained

00:17:58.140 --> 00:18:00.259
and rained in the spring. And now we just don't

00:18:00.259 --> 00:18:03.859
get that even when it pours for days. So it has

00:18:03.859 --> 00:18:06.539
multiple benefits. And it doesn't require not

00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:08.920
building housing. And what you're describing

00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:11.859
would be a much more beautiful city anyway. That's

00:18:11.859 --> 00:18:14.279
what I think. They just need to talk to people

00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:16.500
like you to figure out how to do it and do it

00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:19.079
right. There you go. There's your plug for your

00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:21.220
business right there. Talk to me. Do it and do

00:18:21.220 --> 00:18:24.180
it right. Yeah, I'll work on that tagline. But

00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:27.759
I think the idea is that it can get so antagonistic.

00:18:27.779 --> 00:18:30.019
And I heard this when I spoke to Cindy's group

00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:32.519
that somebody had been upset that someone had

00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:34.839
posted on Facebook that they were going to start

00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:37.259
beekeeping and somebody started trolling them

00:18:37.259 --> 00:18:42.460
about how awful that was for native bees. It's

00:18:42.460 --> 00:18:44.980
just emblematic of our culture at this moment

00:18:44.980 --> 00:18:47.579
in history that we attack instead of finding

00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:49.859
balance. There are ways to have honeybees that

00:18:49.859 --> 00:18:54.460
don't have to be such a problem. It takes a little

00:18:54.460 --> 00:18:57.279
consideration and I think that beekeepers can

00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:00.940
be a huge advocate Just a huge lobby for native

00:19:00.940 --> 00:19:03.900
plants and you can put them on solar farms. You

00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:06.619
can put them on rooftops You can put them in

00:19:06.619 --> 00:19:09.099
parking lots instead of just straight asphalt

00:19:09.099 --> 00:19:11.500
I mean, I think we've all parked in parking lots

00:19:11.500 --> 00:19:14.500
where you just dread the walk into Wherever you're

00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:17.420
going because it's so hot to get there But there

00:19:17.420 --> 00:19:19.279
are different ways you can landscape that and

00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:21.970
still have parking. There are also alternative

00:19:21.970 --> 00:19:24.410
modes of transportation that might be a little

00:19:24.410 --> 00:19:27.529
nicer also, but certainly that works. So I think

00:19:27.529 --> 00:19:29.690
people are just very quick to take sides and

00:19:29.690 --> 00:19:32.690
attack when there are ways to come together.

00:19:33.769 --> 00:19:35.849
And I think native plants are just an easier

00:19:35.849 --> 00:19:38.470
answer than yelling at each other. Just plant

00:19:38.470 --> 00:19:41.250
more native plants. And beekeepers really should

00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:44.269
be a good advocate. Yeah. as far as a group,

00:19:44.569 --> 00:19:47.410
because in general, beekeepers are in tune with

00:19:47.410 --> 00:19:49.890
the environment. They're looking at what's blooming.

00:19:50.349 --> 00:19:53.170
They care about that sort of thing. And it's

00:19:53.170 --> 00:19:56.069
not that they don't care about native pollinators.

00:19:56.690 --> 00:19:59.730
They do. I mean, you can love your honeybees

00:19:59.730 --> 00:20:02.430
and love the native pollinators. And I think

00:20:02.430 --> 00:20:05.710
that's the mindset of most of us beekeepers.

00:20:05.930 --> 00:20:09.089
We need a little education too. Most people don't

00:20:09.089 --> 00:20:13.180
know. Let's talk about pesticides. herbicides.

00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:18.279
Yep. I would guess that anything that is bad

00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:20.859
for honeybees is also bad for native bees. Is

00:20:20.859 --> 00:20:24.940
that the case? Damn it. And that's why I always

00:20:24.940 --> 00:20:28.759
talk about avoiding pesticides as much as possible.

00:20:28.900 --> 00:20:31.180
Because one, they're not good for us either.

00:20:31.619 --> 00:20:35.240
But what happens is when a pesticide is tested

00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:40.950
in the lab, it's one... You know, it's the one

00:20:40.950 --> 00:20:43.670
compound that is tested. But in real life, the

00:20:43.670 --> 00:20:46.430
bees are experiencing all of them at once. They're

00:20:46.430 --> 00:20:49.269
experiencing neonicotinoids and other organophosphates

00:20:49.269 --> 00:20:52.569
and fungicides and herbicides and all these different

00:20:52.569 --> 00:20:56.630
things all at once. And that bioaccumulates in

00:20:56.630 --> 00:20:58.589
their bodies, so they're not just responding

00:20:58.589 --> 00:21:02.200
to one thing. and that even if they don't die,

00:21:02.500 --> 00:21:05.099
it creates problems. And that is something that

00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:07.279
affects native bees as well as honey bees and

00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:10.539
other pollinators as well. And people have a

00:21:10.539 --> 00:21:12.420
tendency to spray for mosquitoes, but spraying

00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:14.480
for mosquitoes is not the way to get rid of mosquitoes.

00:21:15.019 --> 00:21:17.859
So that's just not where they breed. And in fact,

00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:20.220
if you plant for pollinators, you might bring

00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:22.380
in more of the predators that would eat those.

00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:26.579
So again, it's more of a balance. How do I know

00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:30.059
and other people know what kinds of native plants

00:21:30.059 --> 00:21:32.960
I should be planting around me. In fact, what

00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:35.019
plants are native to here in the first place?

00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:37.299
Where do we go to get that information? Because

00:21:37.299 --> 00:21:40.519
it's going to be different everywhere. Yep. And

00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:41.960
that's good because that means you're getting

00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:44.279
stuff specific to your area and not just some

00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:46.339
wildflower packet, which is usually packed with

00:21:46.339 --> 00:21:48.119
all kinds of tropical things that are not native

00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.309
here. I will say it is so much easier now than

00:21:51.309 --> 00:21:53.549
it was even five years ago, or let alone the

00:21:53.549 --> 00:21:55.410
90s, which is when I did my first pollinator

00:21:55.410 --> 00:21:58.390
garden, which was a total fiasco. And there are

00:21:58.390 --> 00:22:00.609
a couple things you can do. One, you can Google

00:22:00.609 --> 00:22:03.470
it. You can literally just put in your zip code

00:22:03.470 --> 00:22:06.430
or say native plants by zip code. Another thing

00:22:06.430 --> 00:22:10.440
is there is a a national nonprofit called Wild

00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.220
Ones. And there are chapters all over the country,

00:22:13.220 --> 00:22:15.579
and you can go online. And they are all about

00:22:15.579 --> 00:22:17.839
promoting native plants. And if you find your

00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:19.619
local chapter, they will probably be able to

00:22:19.619 --> 00:22:21.900
show you exactly where your local native plant

00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:24.759
nursery is. They can also help you find different

00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.079
people online that are selling that are going

00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:29.660
to find the ones for your area. So you can look

00:22:29.660 --> 00:22:33.099
for range maps from there. And I think, let's

00:22:33.099 --> 00:22:35.180
see, National Wildlife Federation has some wonderful

00:22:35.180 --> 00:22:37.420
ecoregions, Homegrown National Park as well.

00:22:37.470 --> 00:22:40.390
can really help you see for your specific area

00:22:40.390 --> 00:22:43.029
what you should be planting. So Google's your

00:22:43.029 --> 00:22:45.289
friend and there are a lot of resources out there

00:22:45.289 --> 00:22:47.829
to help you. That's also going to help you save

00:22:47.829 --> 00:22:51.329
on water and things like that too. If you're

00:22:51.329 --> 00:22:54.730
planting what belongs in your area, if you're

00:22:54.730 --> 00:22:58.690
in a really dry area like I am, we shouldn't

00:22:58.690 --> 00:23:01.450
be putting in Kentucky bluegrass, for example,

00:23:01.890 --> 00:23:04.789
that uses so much water. Yeah. Exactly. Okay,

00:23:05.029 --> 00:23:07.930
what about, would my local extension service

00:23:07.930 --> 00:23:10.869
also be a good resource for that? I think that

00:23:10.869 --> 00:23:13.369
depends on your local extension service. Hopefully

00:23:13.369 --> 00:23:15.509
they've heard about native plants at this point.

00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:19.339
It just depends. A lot of master gardeners know,

00:23:19.420 --> 00:23:21.299
I mean they know more than I will ever know about

00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:24.799
plants in terms of vegetable gardens and the

00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:28.019
non -native plants that are so popular. Not all

00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:30.160
of them are as familiar with native plants. So

00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.339
I would first look for people who have some kind

00:23:33.339 --> 00:23:36.420
of pollinator specialization or go to your wild

00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:38.700
ones for more information. Because they'll have

00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:41.160
seed swaps to get you started and that's also

00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:43.200
can be very inexpensive. They'll know the local

00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:45.660
nurseries. But certainly start with your extension

00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:48.539
if that's a group that you know seed and ask

00:23:48.539 --> 00:23:50.279
about it say you know can you help me find the

00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:52.460
native plants that might be a great resource

00:23:52.460 --> 00:23:55.559
now you're not a beekeeper but you did tell me

00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:58.000
previously that you had a wild and crazy story

00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:01.039
you mentioned one about honeybees and one about

00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.000
wasps where do you want to start okay well so

00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.180
wasn't a honeybee was just bees I don't know

00:24:06.180 --> 00:24:11.109
what kind of okay all I know is Many, many, many

00:24:11.109 --> 00:24:14.329
years ago in my long gone youth, I did Renaissance

00:24:14.329 --> 00:24:16.670
Festival in Minnesota. And so you're wearing

00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:20.329
those big skirts, right? And I must have sat

00:24:20.329 --> 00:24:24.119
down on some kind of hive or something. So I'd

00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:26.539
never been stung by a bee before and I'm in the

00:24:26.539 --> 00:24:28.920
audience watching some other performer give his

00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:31.759
show and I leapt up, I think higher than I've

00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:34.440
ever leapt up in my life just screaming and it

00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:36.339
had just blown up my skirt and gotten trapped.

00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:38.980
And I will say the only other time in my life

00:24:38.980 --> 00:24:41.299
I've ever been stung. It also flew up my shorts

00:24:41.299 --> 00:24:43.799
and got me on the thighs. So I always thought

00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:46.839
they were freakish little pervs. I was like,

00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:49.640
what is the problem? So that's my only experience

00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:52.009
being stung by a bee. That's my only real. bee

00:24:52.009 --> 00:24:53.990
experience other than planting for them. I love

00:24:53.990 --> 00:24:56.329
to plant for them. Yeah and we don't know what

00:24:56.329 --> 00:25:00.549
kind of bees those were. I know it. Do most native

00:25:00.549 --> 00:25:03.869
bees have stingers and sting is a defensive weapon?

00:25:04.329 --> 00:25:07.349
Most native bees do not sting. They do not because

00:25:07.349 --> 00:25:10.630
90 % are solitary so they're not going to sting

00:25:10.630 --> 00:25:12.569
you. They don't have the instinct to defend that

00:25:12.569 --> 00:25:16.160
nest. So now some might, you know, some if there's

00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:19.380
a hive, certainly might, but a lot of our hive

00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:22.460
nesters are bumblebees and you have to really

00:25:22.460 --> 00:25:24.559
step on them to annoy them in my experience.

00:25:25.059 --> 00:25:28.240
So they're not usually a big stinging risk and

00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:30.680
some can't sting me at all. How does somebody

00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:33.980
find out what native bees are around them or

00:25:33.980 --> 00:25:37.039
if they see something they can't quite identify?

00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:39.819
I mean is there a resource for this? Like if

00:25:39.819 --> 00:25:42.900
I took a picture of a bee and I'm like I have

00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:45.700
no idea what kind of bee that is or is it a fly?

00:25:45.779 --> 00:25:47.920
Is it even a bee? How do we figure that out?

00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:50.380
Okay so two questions. First of all I would say

00:25:50.380 --> 00:25:54.299
iNaturalist is an app where you can upload and

00:25:54.299 --> 00:25:56.819
other people who love identifying bugs and other

00:25:56.819 --> 00:25:58.940
things in your area will jump right on and help

00:25:58.940 --> 00:26:02.150
you identify. Also, there's a lot of information

00:26:02.150 --> 00:26:04.009
out there about how do you distinguish wasps

00:26:04.009 --> 00:26:06.210
from flies from bees because there are a lot

00:26:06.210 --> 00:26:08.690
of mimics out there, and that's a lot of fun

00:26:08.690 --> 00:26:12.289
to do. Like, I found out that a lot of critters

00:26:12.289 --> 00:26:14.190
that I'd been calling bees turned out to be flies,

00:26:14.230 --> 00:26:16.089
so I had no idea. So that was really interesting.

00:26:16.750 --> 00:26:18.430
All right, I'm going to let you have the last

00:26:18.430 --> 00:26:21.230
word. Go ahead and wrap up with, just in general,

00:26:21.730 --> 00:26:24.529
what kinds of things can we and should we be

00:26:24.529 --> 00:26:27.180
doing. that are going to help these, I'm just

00:26:27.180 --> 00:26:29.140
going to say native pollinators because it's

00:26:29.140 --> 00:26:31.079
more than just bees. We're trying to help them

00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:34.059
all. That is true. The number one thing you can

00:26:34.059 --> 00:26:37.460
do is plant native species to your area. The

00:26:37.460 --> 00:26:40.359
other thing you can do is stop using pesticides.

00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:44.140
Advocate for people to not so wantonly use pesticides.

00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:47.460
People spray them all over their lawns and that

00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:49.920
floats. That doesn't just go right where people

00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:54.390
spray it. 70 % of our native bees are ground

00:26:54.390 --> 00:26:56.589
nesting. So when you spray that into the ground,

00:26:56.950 --> 00:26:58.710
that affects them. That's where they're living.

00:26:59.269 --> 00:27:02.069
So this whole approach to just having to recklessly

00:27:02.069 --> 00:27:04.829
spray everything to keep a perfect lawn is a

00:27:04.829 --> 00:27:07.130
problem. So I would say those are the two things

00:27:07.130 --> 00:27:11.509
to help support native bees and other pollinators

00:27:11.509 --> 00:27:14.349
and your honeybees. And what's a good way to

00:27:14.349 --> 00:27:17.569
advocate with our city or town, wherever we are?

00:27:17.950 --> 00:27:20.519
Well, That's always a fun one. You can call them

00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:22.980
up or email them. You can show up at your town

00:27:22.980 --> 00:27:26.200
meetings. I find that showing up and just introducing

00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:29.039
yourself or setting up a meeting with your town

00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:31.819
supervisor or your mayor and saying, this is

00:27:31.819 --> 00:27:34.200
important to me. And I raise honeybees, but I

00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:35.960
know that native bees are important, too. And

00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:38.380
I want to make sure that there's enough forage.

00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:40.279
And I would like to encourage native planting

00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:42.960
here. I find that to be very helpful. Maybe talk

00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.599
to them about their landscaping contract. Yeah,

00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:47.599
I've certainly had success working with communities

00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:50.720
on that to say maybe stop spraying pesticide

00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:52.759
on the lawn. Is that necessary? Maybe you don't

00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:55.440
need to fertilize. Maybe you can just overseed.

00:27:55.619 --> 00:27:58.230
Maybe you can reduce some of that lawn. help

00:27:58.230 --> 00:28:00.190
them start thinking about it, start advocating.

00:28:00.910 --> 00:28:04.390
And I always recommend not coming in all angry

00:28:04.390 --> 00:28:07.230
and agitated. Come in and educate. People don't

00:28:07.230 --> 00:28:10.990
know. Most people only know about bees as honeybees,

00:28:11.049 --> 00:28:12.890
and most people don't even know much about that.

00:28:13.269 --> 00:28:15.269
So they certainly don't know about all the variety

00:28:15.269 --> 00:28:18.069
of life cycles in native bees. And most people

00:28:18.069 --> 00:28:20.410
don't understand pollinators. They think if they

00:28:20.410 --> 00:28:22.509
plant a lot of zinnias, they're helping pollinators.

00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:26.460
And that's not really how it works. So people

00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:28.759
want to help. I have found over the years people

00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:30.500
tremendously want to help. They just don't know

00:28:30.500 --> 00:28:33.619
how because nobody's really educated about this.

00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.700
So educate. Help them find resources and encourage

00:28:37.700 --> 00:28:40.539
them. And then when they do what you want, thank

00:28:40.539 --> 00:28:43.700
them. It encourages them to do more. Help them

00:28:43.700 --> 00:28:45.460
plant a pollinator garden. Work with your local

00:28:45.460 --> 00:28:47.539
Wild West chapter to get some gardens in your

00:28:47.539 --> 00:28:51.160
community. Jennifer, Michelle, I really appreciate

00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:54.539
your time. We will stick a link or an email,

00:28:54.579 --> 00:28:56.980
whatever you want, in the show notes in case

00:28:56.980 --> 00:28:59.579
people want to reach out to you and see if you

00:28:59.579 --> 00:29:01.460
can be some kind of a resource for them. Would

00:29:01.460 --> 00:29:03.819
that be okay? That would be great. And thank

00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:05.619
you so much for the chance to come and talk to

00:29:05.619 --> 00:29:11.779
you and all of your audience. Thanks again for

00:29:11.779 --> 00:29:14.299
joining us here on Be Love, Be Keeping presented

00:29:14.299 --> 00:29:18.230
by Man Lake. Remember right now to follow or

00:29:18.230 --> 00:29:21.829
subscribe and share this podcast. Also a quick

00:29:21.829 --> 00:29:24.250
shout out to Vita B Health for their support.

00:29:25.049 --> 00:29:27.950
Vita's Varroa Control range of products includes

00:29:27.950 --> 00:29:32.230
Apistan, Apigard, and now Varroxan Extended Release

00:29:32.230 --> 00:29:35.990
Oxalic Acid Strips. Thanks guys. And remember,

00:29:36.250 --> 00:29:38.450
if you're not just in it for the honey or the

00:29:38.450 --> 00:29:41.150
money, you're in it for the love. See you next

00:29:41.150 --> 00:29:41.470
week.