July 10, 2025
Honey Bees vs. Native Bees... What every beekeeper needs to know.
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In this special episode of Bee Love Beekeeping, we take a step away from our usual beekeeper interviews to explore an important and sometimes misunderstood topic: the relationship between honeybees and native bees. With headlines circulating like “Americans Are Saving the Wrong Bees” and “Honeybee Invasion,” it’s time to dig deeper into the science and separate fact from fear. Are honeybees really hurting native bees, or is the truth more nuanced?
To help us answer that, we’re joined by Jennifer Michelle, a sustainable health strategist with a background in public health, epidemiology, and medical entomology. Jennifer offers a broad and informed perspective on pollinator health, emphasizing how ecological systems, human planning, and individual actions all contribute to the wellbeing of both honeybees and native species. She outlines the key differences between them—solitary vs. social, seasonal vs. year-round activity, generalists vs. specialists—and explains how those differences can create unintended consequences when habitat is scarce.
Rather than painting honeybees as villains, Jennifer stresses that lack of habitat, pesticides, and overdevelopment are the real threats. Honeybees may intensify competition, but they’re not the root problem. Instead, she urges beekeepers to become part of the solution: planting native flowers, reducing pesticide use, and encouraging cities to rethink how they landscape public spaces. Jennifer shares success stories and cautionary tales, from London's overcrowded apiaries to the benefits of native pussy willow trees as early spring forage.
The episode closes with practical tools for identifying native plants in your region, ways to advocate for pollinator-friendly policies in your community, and a reminder that education—not outrage—is the path forward. With warmth and humor, Jennifer makes the case for coexistence and cooperation. Beekeepers, gardeners, and nature lovers alike will find this episode both eye-opening and empowering.
There's even a wild & crazy story that involves a renaissance fair, big skirts, and bee stings.
Love what you’re learning? Help us grow by subscribing, rating, and sharing the show with your fellow bee lovers. Got a burning question for a future episode? Reach out at eric@beelovebeekeeping.com
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Special thanks to our presenting sponsor, Mann Lake! https://www.mannlakeltd.com/
Mann Lake discount code: MLBEELOVE10 for $10 off your first $100 order.
https://www.beelovebeekeeping.com/
Jennifer Michelle: https://greentownconsulting.com/
WEBVTT
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Welcome welcome to Be Love Beekeeping presented
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by the experts over at Man Lake. We're doing
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something different today as the team is currently
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all in preparing for next week's launch of the
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future of Be Love Beekeeping podcast. I'll just
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tease it like that and say be sure to come back
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next week for a funny new opener, a great new
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guest, and an entirely new format. And today
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shows a little different too in that we're not
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having a conversation with a beekeeper, but we
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will be talking all about honey bees and native
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bees. I don't know about you, but lately I've
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seen all kinds of articles popping up with clickbait
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titles about how honey bees are killing off the
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native bees. Here's one headline. Want to save
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the bees? focused on habitat, not honey bees.
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Here's a few others. Your bees are hurting native
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pollinators. Hungry honey bees threaten food
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supply of native pollinators. Americans are saving
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the wrong bees. The problem with honey bees.
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Honeybee invasion, a growing threat to native
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pollinators. And lastly, voracious honeybees
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threaten the food supply of native bees. I've
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even had someone who when finding out that I'm
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a beekeeper started giving me a hard time about
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how I'm hurting the native bees. Granted, that's
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still rare. Most people when they discover I'm
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a beekeeper ask the one question, You know what
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you want I'm talking about. Do you ever get stung?
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Today's guest is Jennifer Michelle. She's an
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expert on native pollinators and what we can
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all do to help them. Does that mean getting rid
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of your beehives? Let's find out. I would love
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to welcome to the show today, Jennifer Michelle,
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coming to us from... Uh -oh, I have to check
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my notes. Jennifer, where are you from? I live
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in upstate New York, so I'm a little bit north
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of Saratoga. That's right. We had talked about
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animals in your area last time. Anyway, welcome
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to the show. I'm going to let our listeners know
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this is going to be a very unusual episode because
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even though we're talking about honey bees, we're
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talking about other kinds of bees and pollinators.
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And we're talking with someone who's not a regular
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beekeeper. Not a beekeeper. But Jennifer, welcome.
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We're happy to have you here. Would you just
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take 30 seconds or a minute and give us an idea
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of your background so we know where you're coming
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from in this conversation? Well, I'm a sustainable
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health strategist. So really what I try and do
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is help people bring public health into their
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discussions of infrastructure. And I include
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ecological health with that, which is how I work
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on the issues of bees. So my background's public
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health and epidemiology, but I did a lot with
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medical entomology as well. And over the course
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of my career, I've expanded that into sustainability
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and began with pollinators, so ecology as well.
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So I've kind of taken all the pieces of that
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jigsaw. and brought it together. Now I do consulting
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and try to help municipalities and engineering
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firms understand how to make communities healthier,
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not just for humans, but for bees as well. So
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Jennifer was referred to us by Cindy, who was
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on the show recently. You had spoken at their
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bee club in a talk that I guess was called What
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Beekeepers Need to Know About Native Bees. Yep.
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I want to start right there. Why does a beekeeper
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need to know anything about native bees? Well,
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because native bees are endangered because native
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bees are impacted by honey bees and because if
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we think about bees the way we think about honey
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bees, we can negatively impact native bees. But
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if we think about bees like native bees, we can
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help native bees and honey bees. So let's get
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into some of the nitty gritty. Let's talk about
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native plants. Let's talk about pesticides. Yep.
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Let's talk about monocropping. Where do you want
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to start? Well, first of all, I'm going to say
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that I consider myself a bee enthusiast. I'm
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not a bee expert. So if anybody wants to learn
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a lot about native bees, I'm first going to give
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a plug to Heather Holm, who I think has written
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fantastic books about bees and native wasps.
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So I always say, if you read something that she's
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written that disagrees with what I said, you
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go by what she wrote. So just always want to
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say that. Yeah, let's dive in. Where should we
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start? The 4 ,000 different species of native
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bees in North America or the honey bees? Yeah,
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let's talk about these native species of bees.
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Okay. I was in a class here in Utah a few years
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ago, this advanced beekeeping class, and we had
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somebody from Utah State University who studies
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native bees, and he had done this big project
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in southern Utah. And in a small area, he identified
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600 different bee species. I thought that was
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unbelievable. I had no idea. It kind of blew
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my mind. And he said, just in our state alone,
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there are 2 ,000 different species of bees. Give
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me some background on that. I mean, where are
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they? How are they here? They're everywhere.
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This is their continent. This is their home.
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So honeybees were brought in from Europe. And
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they're a single species for the most part. one
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species and they were brought here because people
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like honey. So that's how they got here but they're
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not native here and yet there are a ton of flowering
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plants here and there are a ton of different
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kinds of trees and flowers and all kinds of plant
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life that require help from pollinators. So native
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bees are really good at that. And in fact, they
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still are the best at pollinating our forests
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and our wetlands and our wild areas. They also
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help with crop pollination, but obviously that's
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more of a honeybee forte. But they can help each
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other sometimes too. I think one of the reasons
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that it pricked my interest to talk to you specifically
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was because from time to time, I hear someone
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who has read some kind of a news story about
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how with a headline and not a lot of detail,
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headline how honey bees are killing the native
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bees. And so I figure it's just a topic we should
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know a little bit more about because we're not
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the bad guys. Honey bees aren't bad guys. So
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talk us through that whole relationship a little
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bit. Well, I kind of feel like that's just a
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weird way that people think right now. People
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get very polarized. There's a good guy and a
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villain. And life is more complicated than that.
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And I tend to think that what we keep forgetting
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is that it's really a question of balance. And
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right now, things are not as imbalanced as they
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need to be. And that's why there are such impacts
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right now on native bees. So when I give the
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talk that I gave to Cindy's group, I always start
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with how they're similar, and then I go into
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how they're different. And once you start knowing
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those differences, it starts like, I don't then
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need to tell you why honeybees might be. having
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such an impact on native bees, you start to get
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it. So just to go through a couple of things,
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90 % of our native bees are solitary. So they
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don't live in a hive at all. There is just one
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female who... spends her life she's going to
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maybe lay 15 maybe 40 eggs in a lifetime and
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for each one she is going to gather up pollen
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she's going to gather up nectar and she's going
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to dig a little nest maybe in the ground 70 %
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of our bees nest in the ground 30 % nest in cavities
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like um stalks of plants or logs or things like
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that but she will chew her way and down and make
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a cell and lay one egg on this little bit of
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bee bread that she makes and seal it in and then
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do it again. So she doesn't have a hive of sisters
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to help her. If she can't find the food that
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she needs, no one can do that little waggle dance
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to help her out. There's no one to help her.
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There's no one else who's going to be her backup.
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They also, as a general rule, don't fly as far
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as honeybees. So that becomes a big issue. Some
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of them might only fly like 300 feet or something
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in their lifetime. They are very tiny, some of
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the size of like a grain of rice. So they have
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an entirely different physiology and different
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life cycle. And while honeybees are active the
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whole season, Native bees might be active for
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only a few weeks as adults in the season. So
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if the plants that they need are not there when
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they need them, there's not really much they
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can do. There are just differences in the life
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cycle. It depends on who you read, but 20 to
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40 % of our native bees are what they call specialists,
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which means they need a specific pollen to feed
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their baby. It's kind of like monarchs and milkweed.
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Their baby food is milkweed. If you want monarchs,
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it doesn't matter how many butterflies you see
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on other plants. If there's no milkweed, there
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will be no monarchs. And it's the same with our
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native bees. Many of them need a specific pollen
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from a specific native plant, or they literally
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have no food for their babies and they die out.
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So what's going on is we have, for the last,
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you know, bit by bit over the last several decades,
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we have removed a lot of habitat. We put in asphalt.
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We've put in concrete. We put in a lot of lawn
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where there used to be flowering plants that
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were what these native bees needed. And then
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on top of that, we brought in honeybees, which
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are, well, I mean, how many thousands and thousands
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and thousands of bees are in a hive. But a native
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bumblebee hive might have 500 bees in it. So,
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in their annual, they die out at the end of the
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season and one female will start it up again
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the next year or she'll overwinter. So, they
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have very different life cycles. So, having a
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honeybee hive near native bees can quickly overwhelm
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that food source because the honeybees will be
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able to fly farther and eat more and they can
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eat from a wider variety than some of our native
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bees. So, that's the idea. And the number that
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you hear, the statistics that they've seen show
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that. Honey bees can eat in a single season what
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100 ,000 of our native bees can eat. So it is
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a large impact. So my answer to that isn't get
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rid of the honey bees. My answer to that is,
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well, the real issue is lack of habitat. So that's
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why I come back to, why don't we plant native
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flowers, native species? Those native plants
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help honey bees, but they especially help native
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bees. There you go. Well, I appreciate that.
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I really don't think it's an either or. It's
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honeybees or native bees. I think there's ways
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to coexist. And some of the things that you mentioned
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like planting native habitat is so foreign in
00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:10.159
so many of our cities and suburbs and things,
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but it's something that's got to be done. Now,
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is that some of the consulting that you do? Well,
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I certainly help if a municipality is thinking
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of putting in an apiary, I would help them want
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to think about, well, what kind of native plants
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are you planting there? Because I always say
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that honey bees are one of the few animals that
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you can get, and you don't necessarily need to
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provide food for them. If you think there's a
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field nearby, I mean, you're going to take care
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of them in the winter and all these things, but
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it's not like a chicken where you have to have
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so much feed or so much land if it's cattle.
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So that's something to help people think about
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if you're going to start raising honeybees. Where
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are the native plants that you're adding and
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the actual numbers that I've seen is they recommend
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five acres of native plants per hive Which is
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a huge amount and more than most people could
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do so that's where I get excited because to me
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that means Honey beekeepers can become advocates
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for native plants and pollinator pathways and
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pocket parks in their community as they're advocating
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for municipalities to switch from having tons
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of lawn for no reason, tons of pocket parks with
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non -native plants, put that plant forage back
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in there and help all of the bees. So that's
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what I try and do. I also try and encourage people
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to think a little bit. If you're right near a
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wilderness area that has a lot of biodiversity,
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maybe you don't want apiaries too close. Maybe
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think of how far the bees might fly and maybe
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space it out a little bit, maybe four or five
00:12:39.370 --> 00:12:42.549
miles away. And the reason for that is also that
00:12:42.909 --> 00:12:45.429
honey bees will often be very happy with some
00:12:45.429 --> 00:12:47.509
of the invasive plants that are in our areas
00:12:47.509 --> 00:12:50.149
that are not good for our native bees. And so
00:12:50.149 --> 00:12:52.750
that can be spread more by them. So keeping them
00:12:52.750 --> 00:12:56.230
separate from places with native plant biodiversity,
00:12:56.570 --> 00:12:59.009
like more wilderness areas, that can help out.
00:12:59.029 --> 00:13:01.929
So it's just thinking about balance. It's about
00:13:01.929 --> 00:13:04.929
how do we think about where they are and what
00:13:04.929 --> 00:13:07.210
we're feeding everybody. But it's not just to
00:13:07.210 --> 00:13:09.659
help native bees. There was a beekeeping trend
00:13:09.659 --> 00:13:13.000
in London in 2013, and I actually would have
00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.340
to look it up. I think they had like, what was
00:13:15.340 --> 00:13:18.440
it, like 10 hives per square mile in London.
00:13:18.779 --> 00:13:21.559
There's no plants for that, so their bees died.
00:13:24.980 --> 00:13:27.200
Quick break to thank our presenting sponsor,
00:13:27.539 --> 00:13:30.299
Man Lake. Whether you're a beekeeper or not,
00:13:30.659 --> 00:13:33.759
you know that nutrition is key for healthy honeybees,
00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:37.320
native bees, and other pollinators. The Man Lake
00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:40.360
app is a great resource for determining pollinator
00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:43.659
friendly plants that thrive in your area. And
00:13:43.659 --> 00:13:46.840
its plant identification feature is super helpful
00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:50.220
and fun. When I see a plant covered in bees,
00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:53.639
I fire up the app on my phone, I find out what
00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:56.480
that plant is, and then I can put them in my
00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:00.419
own yard. The bees love it. If you haven't already
00:14:00.419 --> 00:14:03.059
downloaded the Man Lake app, give it a try today.
00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:10.840
Oh, and by the way, it's free. A couple years
00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:13.519
ago, Slovenia, they're a very big honey culture.
00:14:13.700 --> 00:14:16.340
They're big on bees. And it got so popular that
00:14:16.340 --> 00:14:19.059
they were having more hives but less honey because
00:14:19.059 --> 00:14:21.899
there wasn't enough food. So people have to start
00:14:21.899 --> 00:14:24.240
thinking about that. It's really, is there enough
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.740
food for all of them? And the answer is probably
00:14:26.740 --> 00:14:30.240
not. And we can fix that. It's an easy fix. We
00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:32.759
can plant. We can plant the species native to
00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:35.679
our area. So one of the things that I have found
00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:38.940
personally, and I have mentioned our pussy willow
00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:42.059
tree on this show before, but I absolutely love
00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:43.940
this thing. I'm going to be planting a few more
00:14:43.940 --> 00:14:47.519
of them. I love it because where I am, it's the
00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:51.139
very first food source that the bees have in
00:14:51.139 --> 00:14:54.179
the spring. Yep. When I go out to this tree,
00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:59.000
I see honeybees, a few different kinds of native
00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:03.539
bees, bumblebees. butterflies, and they all seem
00:15:03.539 --> 00:15:06.139
to be getting along great. And they're all foraging
00:15:06.139 --> 00:15:10.279
on this tree just fine. So is that an example
00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:13.240
of how they can get along? I mean, hopefully
00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:16.659
that's not pushing some native bees out. Or is
00:15:16.659 --> 00:15:20.179
it? I think it's about quantity. You know, is
00:15:20.179 --> 00:15:22.700
there enough of the willow to go around? I mean,
00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.360
I don't think people realize how much forest
00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:30.639
and how much prairie we have removed. So if you
00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:32.980
really look around your neighborhoods, you are
00:15:32.980 --> 00:15:35.820
going to see these big mown lawns everywhere.
00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:37.980
You're going to see a lot of road. You might
00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:41.539
see sidewalk. We've removed what used to be solid
00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:45.179
prairie, solid forest. So you can always add
00:15:45.179 --> 00:15:47.519
more, in my opinion. And I very much advocate
00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:50.179
for people replacing lawn with pollinator gardens.
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.639
Doesn't mean you can't have some lawn. It just
00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:55.279
means think about how much lawn you really need
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:56.879
and is there something else you could do with
00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:00.490
it. So willow is very nutritious. It's especially
00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:04.090
good for a lot of native bees, and it has a very
00:16:04.090 --> 00:16:07.129
high protein count compared to some other pollens
00:16:07.129 --> 00:16:09.509
like dandelion, which is not native. So it's
00:16:09.509 --> 00:16:12.230
very nutritious, and it's very desirable. And
00:16:12.230 --> 00:16:14.590
at least in my area, it blooms very early. So
00:16:14.590 --> 00:16:16.909
it's very good for native bees who are waking
00:16:16.909 --> 00:16:19.309
up after the winter and need food right away.
00:16:19.690 --> 00:16:22.629
So it's great. I'd say plant more. Let it spread.
00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:26.259
So how do we balance the whole fact that we need
00:16:26.259 --> 00:16:29.580
more housing, so we need more development, yet
00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:32.440
we need prairie and we need all this other stuff?
00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:35.080
I think that's part of what you do in your consulting
00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:38.399
is helping municipalities figure out a good balance.
00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:41.620
Well, you really, it's not a choice with housing.
00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:45.019
It's the way we landscape and it's the way we
00:16:45.019 --> 00:16:49.120
build. You can create a lot of housing and have
00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:52.590
pollinator gardens. instead of lawn. You can
00:16:52.590 --> 00:16:55.490
create a beautiful city and have rooftop gardens
00:16:55.490 --> 00:16:57.710
that are filled with native plants. You can have
00:16:57.710 --> 00:17:00.110
a beautiful city that has a lot of shade trees
00:17:00.110 --> 00:17:02.730
that are native instead of non -native trees
00:17:02.730 --> 00:17:04.589
that don't provide the same habitat in their
00:17:04.589 --> 00:17:07.990
parks. You can create roadways that are not just
00:17:07.990 --> 00:17:10.470
asphalt with concrete and have lots of trees
00:17:10.470 --> 00:17:13.029
and under those trees you could have little native
00:17:13.029 --> 00:17:15.549
plant gardens all along the sidewalk. These have
00:17:15.549 --> 00:17:18.049
multiple benefits for a community. It's not just
00:17:18.049 --> 00:17:20.589
for their bees. It's not just for the other It
00:17:20.589 --> 00:17:23.589
also makes it a cooler city. Even plants that
00:17:23.589 --> 00:17:26.769
don't provide shade cool the air around them
00:17:26.769 --> 00:17:30.170
just because of the way they do transpiration.
00:17:30.349 --> 00:17:32.789
So they're always putting moisture back in. So
00:17:32.789 --> 00:17:35.390
there are multiple benefits, plus drainage. One
00:17:35.390 --> 00:17:37.769
of the things that happens when you have a lot
00:17:37.769 --> 00:17:43.029
of asphalt and brick and lawn is the storm water,
00:17:43.029 --> 00:17:45.750
when it comes, doesn't drain into the ground
00:17:45.750 --> 00:17:48.740
like it should. And so that leads to flooding.
00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.240
It can overwhelm sewer systems. But if you have
00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:53.740
native plant gardens, they will absorb that.
00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:55.720
And we've seen that in our yard. We used to get
00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:58.140
like big standing water every year when it rained
00:17:58.140 --> 00:18:00.259
and rained in the spring. And now we just don't
00:18:00.259 --> 00:18:03.859
get that even when it pours for days. So it has
00:18:03.859 --> 00:18:06.539
multiple benefits. And it doesn't require not
00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:08.920
building housing. And what you're describing
00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:11.859
would be a much more beautiful city anyway. That's
00:18:11.859 --> 00:18:14.279
what I think. They just need to talk to people
00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:16.500
like you to figure out how to do it and do it
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:19.079
right. There you go. There's your plug for your
00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:21.220
business right there. Talk to me. Do it and do
00:18:21.220 --> 00:18:24.180
it right. Yeah, I'll work on that tagline. But
00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:27.759
I think the idea is that it can get so antagonistic.
00:18:27.779 --> 00:18:30.019
And I heard this when I spoke to Cindy's group
00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:32.519
that somebody had been upset that someone had
00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:34.839
posted on Facebook that they were going to start
00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:37.259
beekeeping and somebody started trolling them
00:18:37.259 --> 00:18:42.460
about how awful that was for native bees. It's
00:18:42.460 --> 00:18:44.980
just emblematic of our culture at this moment
00:18:44.980 --> 00:18:47.579
in history that we attack instead of finding
00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:49.859
balance. There are ways to have honeybees that
00:18:49.859 --> 00:18:54.460
don't have to be such a problem. It takes a little
00:18:54.460 --> 00:18:57.279
consideration and I think that beekeepers can
00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:00.940
be a huge advocate Just a huge lobby for native
00:19:00.940 --> 00:19:03.900
plants and you can put them on solar farms. You
00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:06.619
can put them on rooftops You can put them in
00:19:06.619 --> 00:19:09.099
parking lots instead of just straight asphalt
00:19:09.099 --> 00:19:11.500
I mean, I think we've all parked in parking lots
00:19:11.500 --> 00:19:14.500
where you just dread the walk into Wherever you're
00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:17.420
going because it's so hot to get there But there
00:19:17.420 --> 00:19:19.279
are different ways you can landscape that and
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:21.970
still have parking. There are also alternative
00:19:21.970 --> 00:19:24.410
modes of transportation that might be a little
00:19:24.410 --> 00:19:27.529
nicer also, but certainly that works. So I think
00:19:27.529 --> 00:19:29.690
people are just very quick to take sides and
00:19:29.690 --> 00:19:32.690
attack when there are ways to come together.
00:19:33.769 --> 00:19:35.849
And I think native plants are just an easier
00:19:35.849 --> 00:19:38.470
answer than yelling at each other. Just plant
00:19:38.470 --> 00:19:41.250
more native plants. And beekeepers really should
00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:44.269
be a good advocate. Yeah. as far as a group,
00:19:44.569 --> 00:19:47.410
because in general, beekeepers are in tune with
00:19:47.410 --> 00:19:49.890
the environment. They're looking at what's blooming.
00:19:50.349 --> 00:19:53.170
They care about that sort of thing. And it's
00:19:53.170 --> 00:19:56.069
not that they don't care about native pollinators.
00:19:56.690 --> 00:19:59.730
They do. I mean, you can love your honeybees
00:19:59.730 --> 00:20:02.430
and love the native pollinators. And I think
00:20:02.430 --> 00:20:05.710
that's the mindset of most of us beekeepers.
00:20:05.930 --> 00:20:09.089
We need a little education too. Most people don't
00:20:09.089 --> 00:20:13.180
know. Let's talk about pesticides. herbicides.
00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:18.279
Yep. I would guess that anything that is bad
00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:20.859
for honeybees is also bad for native bees. Is
00:20:20.859 --> 00:20:24.940
that the case? Damn it. And that's why I always
00:20:24.940 --> 00:20:28.759
talk about avoiding pesticides as much as possible.
00:20:28.900 --> 00:20:31.180
Because one, they're not good for us either.
00:20:31.619 --> 00:20:35.240
But what happens is when a pesticide is tested
00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:40.950
in the lab, it's one... You know, it's the one
00:20:40.950 --> 00:20:43.670
compound that is tested. But in real life, the
00:20:43.670 --> 00:20:46.430
bees are experiencing all of them at once. They're
00:20:46.430 --> 00:20:49.269
experiencing neonicotinoids and other organophosphates
00:20:49.269 --> 00:20:52.569
and fungicides and herbicides and all these different
00:20:52.569 --> 00:20:56.630
things all at once. And that bioaccumulates in
00:20:56.630 --> 00:20:58.589
their bodies, so they're not just responding
00:20:58.589 --> 00:21:02.200
to one thing. and that even if they don't die,
00:21:02.500 --> 00:21:05.099
it creates problems. And that is something that
00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:07.279
affects native bees as well as honey bees and
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:10.539
other pollinators as well. And people have a
00:21:10.539 --> 00:21:12.420
tendency to spray for mosquitoes, but spraying
00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:14.480
for mosquitoes is not the way to get rid of mosquitoes.
00:21:15.019 --> 00:21:17.859
So that's just not where they breed. And in fact,
00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:20.220
if you plant for pollinators, you might bring
00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:22.380
in more of the predators that would eat those.
00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:26.579
So again, it's more of a balance. How do I know
00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:30.059
and other people know what kinds of native plants
00:21:30.059 --> 00:21:32.960
I should be planting around me. In fact, what
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:35.019
plants are native to here in the first place?
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:37.299
Where do we go to get that information? Because
00:21:37.299 --> 00:21:40.519
it's going to be different everywhere. Yep. And
00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:41.960
that's good because that means you're getting
00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:44.279
stuff specific to your area and not just some
00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:46.339
wildflower packet, which is usually packed with
00:21:46.339 --> 00:21:48.119
all kinds of tropical things that are not native
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.309
here. I will say it is so much easier now than
00:21:51.309 --> 00:21:53.549
it was even five years ago, or let alone the
00:21:53.549 --> 00:21:55.410
90s, which is when I did my first pollinator
00:21:55.410 --> 00:21:58.390
garden, which was a total fiasco. And there are
00:21:58.390 --> 00:22:00.609
a couple things you can do. One, you can Google
00:22:00.609 --> 00:22:03.470
it. You can literally just put in your zip code
00:22:03.470 --> 00:22:06.430
or say native plants by zip code. Another thing
00:22:06.430 --> 00:22:10.440
is there is a a national nonprofit called Wild
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.220
Ones. And there are chapters all over the country,
00:22:13.220 --> 00:22:15.579
and you can go online. And they are all about
00:22:15.579 --> 00:22:17.839
promoting native plants. And if you find your
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:19.619
local chapter, they will probably be able to
00:22:19.619 --> 00:22:21.900
show you exactly where your local native plant
00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:24.759
nursery is. They can also help you find different
00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.079
people online that are selling that are going
00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:29.660
to find the ones for your area. So you can look
00:22:29.660 --> 00:22:33.099
for range maps from there. And I think, let's
00:22:33.099 --> 00:22:35.180
see, National Wildlife Federation has some wonderful
00:22:35.180 --> 00:22:37.420
ecoregions, Homegrown National Park as well.
00:22:37.470 --> 00:22:40.390
can really help you see for your specific area
00:22:40.390 --> 00:22:43.029
what you should be planting. So Google's your
00:22:43.029 --> 00:22:45.289
friend and there are a lot of resources out there
00:22:45.289 --> 00:22:47.829
to help you. That's also going to help you save
00:22:47.829 --> 00:22:51.329
on water and things like that too. If you're
00:22:51.329 --> 00:22:54.730
planting what belongs in your area, if you're
00:22:54.730 --> 00:22:58.690
in a really dry area like I am, we shouldn't
00:22:58.690 --> 00:23:01.450
be putting in Kentucky bluegrass, for example,
00:23:01.890 --> 00:23:04.789
that uses so much water. Yeah. Exactly. Okay,
00:23:05.029 --> 00:23:07.930
what about, would my local extension service
00:23:07.930 --> 00:23:10.869
also be a good resource for that? I think that
00:23:10.869 --> 00:23:13.369
depends on your local extension service. Hopefully
00:23:13.369 --> 00:23:15.509
they've heard about native plants at this point.
00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:19.339
It just depends. A lot of master gardeners know,
00:23:19.420 --> 00:23:21.299
I mean they know more than I will ever know about
00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:24.799
plants in terms of vegetable gardens and the
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:28.019
non -native plants that are so popular. Not all
00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:30.160
of them are as familiar with native plants. So
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.339
I would first look for people who have some kind
00:23:33.339 --> 00:23:36.420
of pollinator specialization or go to your wild
00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:38.700
ones for more information. Because they'll have
00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:41.160
seed swaps to get you started and that's also
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:43.200
can be very inexpensive. They'll know the local
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:45.660
nurseries. But certainly start with your extension
00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:48.539
if that's a group that you know seed and ask
00:23:48.539 --> 00:23:50.279
about it say you know can you help me find the
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:52.460
native plants that might be a great resource
00:23:52.460 --> 00:23:55.559
now you're not a beekeeper but you did tell me
00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:58.000
previously that you had a wild and crazy story
00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:01.039
you mentioned one about honeybees and one about
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.000
wasps where do you want to start okay well so
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.180
wasn't a honeybee was just bees I don't know
00:24:06.180 --> 00:24:11.109
what kind of okay all I know is Many, many, many
00:24:11.109 --> 00:24:14.329
years ago in my long gone youth, I did Renaissance
00:24:14.329 --> 00:24:16.670
Festival in Minnesota. And so you're wearing
00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:20.329
those big skirts, right? And I must have sat
00:24:20.329 --> 00:24:24.119
down on some kind of hive or something. So I'd
00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:26.539
never been stung by a bee before and I'm in the
00:24:26.539 --> 00:24:28.920
audience watching some other performer give his
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:31.759
show and I leapt up, I think higher than I've
00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:34.440
ever leapt up in my life just screaming and it
00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:36.339
had just blown up my skirt and gotten trapped.
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:38.980
And I will say the only other time in my life
00:24:38.980 --> 00:24:41.299
I've ever been stung. It also flew up my shorts
00:24:41.299 --> 00:24:43.799
and got me on the thighs. So I always thought
00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:46.839
they were freakish little pervs. I was like,
00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:49.640
what is the problem? So that's my only experience
00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:52.009
being stung by a bee. That's my only real. bee
00:24:52.009 --> 00:24:53.990
experience other than planting for them. I love
00:24:53.990 --> 00:24:56.329
to plant for them. Yeah and we don't know what
00:24:56.329 --> 00:25:00.549
kind of bees those were. I know it. Do most native
00:25:00.549 --> 00:25:03.869
bees have stingers and sting is a defensive weapon?
00:25:04.329 --> 00:25:07.349
Most native bees do not sting. They do not because
00:25:07.349 --> 00:25:10.630
90 % are solitary so they're not going to sting
00:25:10.630 --> 00:25:12.569
you. They don't have the instinct to defend that
00:25:12.569 --> 00:25:16.160
nest. So now some might, you know, some if there's
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:19.380
a hive, certainly might, but a lot of our hive
00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:22.460
nesters are bumblebees and you have to really
00:25:22.460 --> 00:25:24.559
step on them to annoy them in my experience.
00:25:25.059 --> 00:25:28.240
So they're not usually a big stinging risk and
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:30.680
some can't sting me at all. How does somebody
00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:33.980
find out what native bees are around them or
00:25:33.980 --> 00:25:37.039
if they see something they can't quite identify?
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:39.819
I mean is there a resource for this? Like if
00:25:39.819 --> 00:25:42.900
I took a picture of a bee and I'm like I have
00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:45.700
no idea what kind of bee that is or is it a fly?
00:25:45.779 --> 00:25:47.920
Is it even a bee? How do we figure that out?
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:50.380
Okay so two questions. First of all I would say
00:25:50.380 --> 00:25:54.299
iNaturalist is an app where you can upload and
00:25:54.299 --> 00:25:56.819
other people who love identifying bugs and other
00:25:56.819 --> 00:25:58.940
things in your area will jump right on and help
00:25:58.940 --> 00:26:02.150
you identify. Also, there's a lot of information
00:26:02.150 --> 00:26:04.009
out there about how do you distinguish wasps
00:26:04.009 --> 00:26:06.210
from flies from bees because there are a lot
00:26:06.210 --> 00:26:08.690
of mimics out there, and that's a lot of fun
00:26:08.690 --> 00:26:12.289
to do. Like, I found out that a lot of critters
00:26:12.289 --> 00:26:14.190
that I'd been calling bees turned out to be flies,
00:26:14.230 --> 00:26:16.089
so I had no idea. So that was really interesting.
00:26:16.750 --> 00:26:18.430
All right, I'm going to let you have the last
00:26:18.430 --> 00:26:21.230
word. Go ahead and wrap up with, just in general,
00:26:21.730 --> 00:26:24.529
what kinds of things can we and should we be
00:26:24.529 --> 00:26:27.180
doing. that are going to help these, I'm just
00:26:27.180 --> 00:26:29.140
going to say native pollinators because it's
00:26:29.140 --> 00:26:31.079
more than just bees. We're trying to help them
00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:34.059
all. That is true. The number one thing you can
00:26:34.059 --> 00:26:37.460
do is plant native species to your area. The
00:26:37.460 --> 00:26:40.359
other thing you can do is stop using pesticides.
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:44.140
Advocate for people to not so wantonly use pesticides.
00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:47.460
People spray them all over their lawns and that
00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:49.920
floats. That doesn't just go right where people
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:54.390
spray it. 70 % of our native bees are ground
00:26:54.390 --> 00:26:56.589
nesting. So when you spray that into the ground,
00:26:56.950 --> 00:26:58.710
that affects them. That's where they're living.
00:26:59.269 --> 00:27:02.069
So this whole approach to just having to recklessly
00:27:02.069 --> 00:27:04.829
spray everything to keep a perfect lawn is a
00:27:04.829 --> 00:27:07.130
problem. So I would say those are the two things
00:27:07.130 --> 00:27:11.509
to help support native bees and other pollinators
00:27:11.509 --> 00:27:14.349
and your honeybees. And what's a good way to
00:27:14.349 --> 00:27:17.569
advocate with our city or town, wherever we are?
00:27:17.950 --> 00:27:20.519
Well, That's always a fun one. You can call them
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:22.980
up or email them. You can show up at your town
00:27:22.980 --> 00:27:26.200
meetings. I find that showing up and just introducing
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:29.039
yourself or setting up a meeting with your town
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:31.819
supervisor or your mayor and saying, this is
00:27:31.819 --> 00:27:34.200
important to me. And I raise honeybees, but I
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:35.960
know that native bees are important, too. And
00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:38.380
I want to make sure that there's enough forage.
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:40.279
And I would like to encourage native planting
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:42.960
here. I find that to be very helpful. Maybe talk
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.599
to them about their landscaping contract. Yeah,
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:47.599
I've certainly had success working with communities
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:50.720
on that to say maybe stop spraying pesticide
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:52.759
on the lawn. Is that necessary? Maybe you don't
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:55.440
need to fertilize. Maybe you can just overseed.
00:27:55.619 --> 00:27:58.230
Maybe you can reduce some of that lawn. help
00:27:58.230 --> 00:28:00.190
them start thinking about it, start advocating.
00:28:00.910 --> 00:28:04.390
And I always recommend not coming in all angry
00:28:04.390 --> 00:28:07.230
and agitated. Come in and educate. People don't
00:28:07.230 --> 00:28:10.990
know. Most people only know about bees as honeybees,
00:28:11.049 --> 00:28:12.890
and most people don't even know much about that.
00:28:13.269 --> 00:28:15.269
So they certainly don't know about all the variety
00:28:15.269 --> 00:28:18.069
of life cycles in native bees. And most people
00:28:18.069 --> 00:28:20.410
don't understand pollinators. They think if they
00:28:20.410 --> 00:28:22.509
plant a lot of zinnias, they're helping pollinators.
00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:26.460
And that's not really how it works. So people
00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:28.759
want to help. I have found over the years people
00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:30.500
tremendously want to help. They just don't know
00:28:30.500 --> 00:28:33.619
how because nobody's really educated about this.
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.700
So educate. Help them find resources and encourage
00:28:37.700 --> 00:28:40.539
them. And then when they do what you want, thank
00:28:40.539 --> 00:28:43.700
them. It encourages them to do more. Help them
00:28:43.700 --> 00:28:45.460
plant a pollinator garden. Work with your local
00:28:45.460 --> 00:28:47.539
Wild West chapter to get some gardens in your
00:28:47.539 --> 00:28:51.160
community. Jennifer, Michelle, I really appreciate
00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:54.539
your time. We will stick a link or an email,
00:28:54.579 --> 00:28:56.980
whatever you want, in the show notes in case
00:28:56.980 --> 00:28:59.579
people want to reach out to you and see if you
00:28:59.579 --> 00:29:01.460
can be some kind of a resource for them. Would
00:29:01.460 --> 00:29:03.819
that be okay? That would be great. And thank
00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:05.619
you so much for the chance to come and talk to
00:29:05.619 --> 00:29:11.779
you and all of your audience. Thanks again for
00:29:11.779 --> 00:29:14.299
joining us here on Be Love, Be Keeping presented
00:29:14.299 --> 00:29:18.230
by Man Lake. Remember right now to follow or
00:29:18.230 --> 00:29:21.829
subscribe and share this podcast. Also a quick
00:29:21.829 --> 00:29:24.250
shout out to Vita B Health for their support.
00:29:25.049 --> 00:29:27.950
Vita's Varroa Control range of products includes
00:29:27.950 --> 00:29:32.230
Apistan, Apigard, and now Varroxan Extended Release
00:29:32.230 --> 00:29:35.990
Oxalic Acid Strips. Thanks guys. And remember,
00:29:36.250 --> 00:29:38.450
if you're not just in it for the honey or the
00:29:38.450 --> 00:29:41.150
money, you're in it for the love. See you next
00:29:41.150 --> 00:29:41.470
week.
00:00:06.219 --> 00:00:09.160
Welcome welcome to Be Love Beekeeping presented
00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:13.179
by the experts over at Man Lake. We're doing
00:00:13.179 --> 00:00:15.779
something different today as the team is currently
00:00:15.779 --> 00:00:19.359
all in preparing for next week's launch of the
00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:22.800
future of Be Love Beekeeping podcast. I'll just
00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:25.339
tease it like that and say be sure to come back
00:00:25.339 --> 00:00:28.460
next week for a funny new opener, a great new
00:00:28.460 --> 00:00:32.659
guest, and an entirely new format. And today
00:00:32.659 --> 00:00:35.060
shows a little different too in that we're not
00:00:35.060 --> 00:00:38.299
having a conversation with a beekeeper, but we
00:00:38.299 --> 00:00:41.420
will be talking all about honey bees and native
00:00:41.420 --> 00:00:44.899
bees. I don't know about you, but lately I've
00:00:44.899 --> 00:00:48.719
seen all kinds of articles popping up with clickbait
00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:52.079
titles about how honey bees are killing off the
00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:57.719
native bees. Here's one headline. Want to save
00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:01.710
the bees? focused on habitat, not honey bees.
00:01:03.969 --> 00:01:07.829
Here's a few others. Your bees are hurting native
00:01:07.829 --> 00:01:12.549
pollinators. Hungry honey bees threaten food
00:01:12.549 --> 00:01:17.549
supply of native pollinators. Americans are saving
00:01:17.549 --> 00:01:22.989
the wrong bees. The problem with honey bees.
00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:28.000
Honeybee invasion, a growing threat to native
00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:32.560
pollinators. And lastly, voracious honeybees
00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:39.719
threaten the food supply of native bees. I've
00:01:39.719 --> 00:01:42.140
even had someone who when finding out that I'm
00:01:42.140 --> 00:01:45.019
a beekeeper started giving me a hard time about
00:01:45.019 --> 00:01:48.620
how I'm hurting the native bees. Granted, that's
00:01:48.620 --> 00:01:51.459
still rare. Most people when they discover I'm
00:01:51.459 --> 00:01:54.640
a beekeeper ask the one question, You know what
00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:58.319
you want I'm talking about. Do you ever get stung?
00:02:04.579 --> 00:02:07.180
Today's guest is Jennifer Michelle. She's an
00:02:07.180 --> 00:02:09.960
expert on native pollinators and what we can
00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:12.740
all do to help them. Does that mean getting rid
00:02:12.740 --> 00:02:20.840
of your beehives? Let's find out. I would love
00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:23.159
to welcome to the show today, Jennifer Michelle,
00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:26.479
coming to us from... Uh -oh, I have to check
00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:28.939
my notes. Jennifer, where are you from? I live
00:02:28.939 --> 00:02:30.979
in upstate New York, so I'm a little bit north
00:02:30.979 --> 00:02:33.979
of Saratoga. That's right. We had talked about
00:02:33.979 --> 00:02:37.379
animals in your area last time. Anyway, welcome
00:02:37.379 --> 00:02:40.300
to the show. I'm going to let our listeners know
00:02:40.300 --> 00:02:43.680
this is going to be a very unusual episode because
00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:46.120
even though we're talking about honey bees, we're
00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:48.620
talking about other kinds of bees and pollinators.
00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:52.340
And we're talking with someone who's not a regular
00:02:52.340 --> 00:02:55.460
beekeeper. Not a beekeeper. But Jennifer, welcome.
00:02:55.620 --> 00:02:58.020
We're happy to have you here. Would you just
00:02:58.020 --> 00:03:01.960
take 30 seconds or a minute and give us an idea
00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:04.620
of your background so we know where you're coming
00:03:04.620 --> 00:03:07.460
from in this conversation? Well, I'm a sustainable
00:03:07.460 --> 00:03:10.000
health strategist. So really what I try and do
00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:13.819
is help people bring public health into their
00:03:13.819 --> 00:03:16.360
discussions of infrastructure. And I include
00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:18.419
ecological health with that, which is how I work
00:03:18.419 --> 00:03:21.180
on the issues of bees. So my background's public
00:03:21.180 --> 00:03:23.360
health and epidemiology, but I did a lot with
00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:26.159
medical entomology as well. And over the course
00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:29.139
of my career, I've expanded that into sustainability
00:03:29.139 --> 00:03:32.659
and began with pollinators, so ecology as well.
00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:35.300
So I've kind of taken all the pieces of that
00:03:35.300 --> 00:03:38.460
jigsaw. and brought it together. Now I do consulting
00:03:38.460 --> 00:03:41.740
and try to help municipalities and engineering
00:03:41.740 --> 00:03:43.960
firms understand how to make communities healthier,
00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:47.560
not just for humans, but for bees as well. So
00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:51.120
Jennifer was referred to us by Cindy, who was
00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:54.120
on the show recently. You had spoken at their
00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:57.960
bee club in a talk that I guess was called What
00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:01.240
Beekeepers Need to Know About Native Bees. Yep.
00:04:01.860 --> 00:04:05.180
I want to start right there. Why does a beekeeper
00:04:05.180 --> 00:04:08.159
need to know anything about native bees? Well,
00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:11.319
because native bees are endangered because native
00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:15.000
bees are impacted by honey bees and because if
00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.439
we think about bees the way we think about honey
00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:20.139
bees, we can negatively impact native bees. But
00:04:20.139 --> 00:04:22.420
if we think about bees like native bees, we can
00:04:22.420 --> 00:04:25.199
help native bees and honey bees. So let's get
00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:27.699
into some of the nitty gritty. Let's talk about
00:04:27.699 --> 00:04:31.319
native plants. Let's talk about pesticides. Yep.
00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:34.660
Let's talk about monocropping. Where do you want
00:04:34.660 --> 00:04:36.620
to start? Well, first of all, I'm going to say
00:04:36.620 --> 00:04:40.060
that I consider myself a bee enthusiast. I'm
00:04:40.060 --> 00:04:43.519
not a bee expert. So if anybody wants to learn
00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:44.980
a lot about native bees, I'm first going to give
00:04:44.980 --> 00:04:47.199
a plug to Heather Holm, who I think has written
00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:49.819
fantastic books about bees and native wasps.
00:04:50.139 --> 00:04:52.519
So I always say, if you read something that she's
00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:54.660
written that disagrees with what I said, you
00:04:54.660 --> 00:04:57.220
go by what she wrote. So just always want to
00:04:57.220 --> 00:05:00.660
say that. Yeah, let's dive in. Where should we
00:05:00.660 --> 00:05:02.800
start? The 4 ,000 different species of native
00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:05.279
bees in North America or the honey bees? Yeah,
00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:07.959
let's talk about these native species of bees.
00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:11.899
Okay. I was in a class here in Utah a few years
00:05:11.899 --> 00:05:14.939
ago, this advanced beekeeping class, and we had
00:05:14.939 --> 00:05:19.019
somebody from Utah State University who studies
00:05:19.019 --> 00:05:22.259
native bees, and he had done this big project
00:05:22.259 --> 00:05:26.500
in southern Utah. And in a small area, he identified
00:05:27.219 --> 00:05:30.699
600 different bee species. I thought that was
00:05:30.699 --> 00:05:32.879
unbelievable. I had no idea. It kind of blew
00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:35.360
my mind. And he said, just in our state alone,
00:05:35.459 --> 00:05:39.459
there are 2 ,000 different species of bees. Give
00:05:39.459 --> 00:05:42.680
me some background on that. I mean, where are
00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:45.120
they? How are they here? They're everywhere.
00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:47.220
This is their continent. This is their home.
00:05:47.660 --> 00:05:50.360
So honeybees were brought in from Europe. And
00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:53.379
they're a single species for the most part. one
00:05:53.379 --> 00:05:55.199
species and they were brought here because people
00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:58.319
like honey. So that's how they got here but they're
00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:01.120
not native here and yet there are a ton of flowering
00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:04.519
plants here and there are a ton of different
00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:08.980
kinds of trees and flowers and all kinds of plant
00:06:08.980 --> 00:06:11.819
life that require help from pollinators. So native
00:06:11.819 --> 00:06:14.680
bees are really good at that. And in fact, they
00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:17.040
still are the best at pollinating our forests
00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:19.860
and our wetlands and our wild areas. They also
00:06:19.860 --> 00:06:22.560
help with crop pollination, but obviously that's
00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:25.319
more of a honeybee forte. But they can help each
00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:27.779
other sometimes too. I think one of the reasons
00:06:27.779 --> 00:06:31.980
that it pricked my interest to talk to you specifically
00:06:31.980 --> 00:06:35.459
was because from time to time, I hear someone
00:06:35.459 --> 00:06:38.819
who has read some kind of a news story about
00:06:38.819 --> 00:06:42.579
how with a headline and not a lot of detail,
00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:46.500
headline how honey bees are killing the native
00:06:46.500 --> 00:06:49.879
bees. And so I figure it's just a topic we should
00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:52.399
know a little bit more about because we're not
00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:55.819
the bad guys. Honey bees aren't bad guys. So
00:06:55.819 --> 00:06:58.579
talk us through that whole relationship a little
00:06:58.579 --> 00:07:03.339
bit. Well, I kind of feel like that's just a
00:07:03.339 --> 00:07:05.779
weird way that people think right now. People
00:07:05.779 --> 00:07:08.899
get very polarized. There's a good guy and a
00:07:08.899 --> 00:07:11.660
villain. And life is more complicated than that.
00:07:12.029 --> 00:07:14.449
And I tend to think that what we keep forgetting
00:07:14.449 --> 00:07:16.990
is that it's really a question of balance. And
00:07:16.990 --> 00:07:19.170
right now, things are not as imbalanced as they
00:07:19.170 --> 00:07:22.050
need to be. And that's why there are such impacts
00:07:22.050 --> 00:07:25.589
right now on native bees. So when I give the
00:07:25.589 --> 00:07:27.189
talk that I gave to Cindy's group, I always start
00:07:27.189 --> 00:07:28.910
with how they're similar, and then I go into
00:07:28.910 --> 00:07:31.509
how they're different. And once you start knowing
00:07:31.509 --> 00:07:33.810
those differences, it starts like, I don't then
00:07:33.810 --> 00:07:36.899
need to tell you why honeybees might be. having
00:07:36.899 --> 00:07:38.800
such an impact on native bees, you start to get
00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:41.060
it. So just to go through a couple of things,
00:07:41.500 --> 00:07:44.500
90 % of our native bees are solitary. So they
00:07:44.500 --> 00:07:46.800
don't live in a hive at all. There is just one
00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:49.730
female who... spends her life she's going to
00:07:49.730 --> 00:07:53.290
maybe lay 15 maybe 40 eggs in a lifetime and
00:07:53.290 --> 00:07:55.670
for each one she is going to gather up pollen
00:07:55.670 --> 00:07:57.430
she's going to gather up nectar and she's going
00:07:57.430 --> 00:08:00.850
to dig a little nest maybe in the ground 70 %
00:08:00.850 --> 00:08:04.230
of our bees nest in the ground 30 % nest in cavities
00:08:04.230 --> 00:08:07.670
like um stalks of plants or logs or things like
00:08:07.670 --> 00:08:10.610
that but she will chew her way and down and make
00:08:10.610 --> 00:08:13.899
a cell and lay one egg on this little bit of
00:08:13.899 --> 00:08:15.819
bee bread that she makes and seal it in and then
00:08:15.819 --> 00:08:18.920
do it again. So she doesn't have a hive of sisters
00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:21.360
to help her. If she can't find the food that
00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:24.100
she needs, no one can do that little waggle dance
00:08:24.100 --> 00:08:26.339
to help her out. There's no one to help her.
00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:28.360
There's no one else who's going to be her backup.
00:08:28.810 --> 00:08:31.949
They also, as a general rule, don't fly as far
00:08:31.949 --> 00:08:34.429
as honeybees. So that becomes a big issue. Some
00:08:34.429 --> 00:08:36.809
of them might only fly like 300 feet or something
00:08:36.809 --> 00:08:39.450
in their lifetime. They are very tiny, some of
00:08:39.450 --> 00:08:42.490
the size of like a grain of rice. So they have
00:08:42.490 --> 00:08:45.230
an entirely different physiology and different
00:08:45.230 --> 00:08:50.110
life cycle. And while honeybees are active the
00:08:50.110 --> 00:08:53.220
whole season, Native bees might be active for
00:08:53.220 --> 00:08:56.019
only a few weeks as adults in the season. So
00:08:56.019 --> 00:08:58.139
if the plants that they need are not there when
00:08:58.139 --> 00:09:00.120
they need them, there's not really much they
00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:02.279
can do. There are just differences in the life
00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:05.350
cycle. It depends on who you read, but 20 to
00:09:05.350 --> 00:09:08.230
40 % of our native bees are what they call specialists,
00:09:08.549 --> 00:09:11.509
which means they need a specific pollen to feed
00:09:11.509 --> 00:09:14.110
their baby. It's kind of like monarchs and milkweed.
00:09:14.509 --> 00:09:17.429
Their baby food is milkweed. If you want monarchs,
00:09:17.529 --> 00:09:19.629
it doesn't matter how many butterflies you see
00:09:19.629 --> 00:09:21.490
on other plants. If there's no milkweed, there
00:09:21.490 --> 00:09:23.570
will be no monarchs. And it's the same with our
00:09:23.570 --> 00:09:26.850
native bees. Many of them need a specific pollen
00:09:26.850 --> 00:09:29.350
from a specific native plant, or they literally
00:09:29.350 --> 00:09:31.429
have no food for their babies and they die out.
00:09:31.959 --> 00:09:35.179
So what's going on is we have, for the last,
00:09:35.179 --> 00:09:37.379
you know, bit by bit over the last several decades,
00:09:37.580 --> 00:09:40.220
we have removed a lot of habitat. We put in asphalt.
00:09:40.340 --> 00:09:43.259
We've put in concrete. We put in a lot of lawn
00:09:43.259 --> 00:09:45.559
where there used to be flowering plants that
00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:47.860
were what these native bees needed. And then
00:09:47.860 --> 00:09:50.159
on top of that, we brought in honeybees, which
00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:52.980
are, well, I mean, how many thousands and thousands
00:09:52.980 --> 00:09:56.580
and thousands of bees are in a hive. But a native
00:09:56.580 --> 00:10:00.289
bumblebee hive might have 500 bees in it. So,
00:10:00.350 --> 00:10:02.210
in their annual, they die out at the end of the
00:10:02.210 --> 00:10:04.309
season and one female will start it up again
00:10:04.309 --> 00:10:07.169
the next year or she'll overwinter. So, they
00:10:07.169 --> 00:10:10.169
have very different life cycles. So, having a
00:10:10.169 --> 00:10:14.529
honeybee hive near native bees can quickly overwhelm
00:10:14.529 --> 00:10:16.769
that food source because the honeybees will be
00:10:16.769 --> 00:10:19.129
able to fly farther and eat more and they can
00:10:19.129 --> 00:10:21.850
eat from a wider variety than some of our native
00:10:21.850 --> 00:10:25.049
bees. So, that's the idea. And the number that
00:10:25.049 --> 00:10:27.350
you hear, the statistics that they've seen show
00:10:27.350 --> 00:10:30.210
that. Honey bees can eat in a single season what
00:10:30.210 --> 00:10:33.289
100 ,000 of our native bees can eat. So it is
00:10:33.289 --> 00:10:37.250
a large impact. So my answer to that isn't get
00:10:37.250 --> 00:10:39.929
rid of the honey bees. My answer to that is,
00:10:40.070 --> 00:10:43.409
well, the real issue is lack of habitat. So that's
00:10:43.409 --> 00:10:45.429
why I come back to, why don't we plant native
00:10:45.429 --> 00:10:47.629
flowers, native species? Those native plants
00:10:47.629 --> 00:10:50.210
help honey bees, but they especially help native
00:10:50.210 --> 00:10:53.019
bees. There you go. Well, I appreciate that.
00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:56.259
I really don't think it's an either or. It's
00:10:56.259 --> 00:10:59.019
honeybees or native bees. I think there's ways
00:10:59.019 --> 00:11:02.240
to coexist. And some of the things that you mentioned
00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:07.279
like planting native habitat is so foreign in
00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:10.159
so many of our cities and suburbs and things,
00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:12.879
but it's something that's got to be done. Now,
00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:15.600
is that some of the consulting that you do? Well,
00:11:16.299 --> 00:11:19.429
I certainly help if a municipality is thinking
00:11:19.429 --> 00:11:21.250
of putting in an apiary, I would help them want
00:11:21.250 --> 00:11:24.169
to think about, well, what kind of native plants
00:11:24.169 --> 00:11:26.789
are you planting there? Because I always say
00:11:26.789 --> 00:11:30.169
that honey bees are one of the few animals that
00:11:30.169 --> 00:11:32.549
you can get, and you don't necessarily need to
00:11:32.549 --> 00:11:34.830
provide food for them. If you think there's a
00:11:34.830 --> 00:11:37.250
field nearby, I mean, you're going to take care
00:11:37.250 --> 00:11:38.769
of them in the winter and all these things, but
00:11:38.769 --> 00:11:41.029
it's not like a chicken where you have to have
00:11:41.029 --> 00:11:44.009
so much feed or so much land if it's cattle.
00:11:44.769 --> 00:11:46.769
So that's something to help people think about
00:11:46.769 --> 00:11:50.210
if you're going to start raising honeybees. Where
00:11:50.210 --> 00:11:52.169
are the native plants that you're adding and
00:11:52.169 --> 00:11:54.870
the actual numbers that I've seen is they recommend
00:11:54.870 --> 00:11:58.669
five acres of native plants per hive Which is
00:11:58.669 --> 00:12:00.750
a huge amount and more than most people could
00:12:00.750 --> 00:12:04.190
do so that's where I get excited because to me
00:12:04.190 --> 00:12:07.789
that means Honey beekeepers can become advocates
00:12:07.789 --> 00:12:10.450
for native plants and pollinator pathways and
00:12:10.450 --> 00:12:12.870
pocket parks in their community as they're advocating
00:12:12.870 --> 00:12:15.990
for municipalities to switch from having tons
00:12:15.990 --> 00:12:19.070
of lawn for no reason, tons of pocket parks with
00:12:19.070 --> 00:12:21.909
non -native plants, put that plant forage back
00:12:21.909 --> 00:12:24.730
in there and help all of the bees. So that's
00:12:24.730 --> 00:12:26.929
what I try and do. I also try and encourage people
00:12:26.929 --> 00:12:29.009
to think a little bit. If you're right near a
00:12:29.009 --> 00:12:31.289
wilderness area that has a lot of biodiversity,
00:12:31.929 --> 00:12:34.470
maybe you don't want apiaries too close. Maybe
00:12:34.470 --> 00:12:37.610
think of how far the bees might fly and maybe
00:12:37.610 --> 00:12:39.370
space it out a little bit, maybe four or five
00:12:39.370 --> 00:12:42.549
miles away. And the reason for that is also that
00:12:42.909 --> 00:12:45.429
honey bees will often be very happy with some
00:12:45.429 --> 00:12:47.509
of the invasive plants that are in our areas
00:12:47.509 --> 00:12:50.149
that are not good for our native bees. And so
00:12:50.149 --> 00:12:52.750
that can be spread more by them. So keeping them
00:12:52.750 --> 00:12:56.230
separate from places with native plant biodiversity,
00:12:56.570 --> 00:12:59.009
like more wilderness areas, that can help out.
00:12:59.029 --> 00:13:01.929
So it's just thinking about balance. It's about
00:13:01.929 --> 00:13:04.929
how do we think about where they are and what
00:13:04.929 --> 00:13:07.210
we're feeding everybody. But it's not just to
00:13:07.210 --> 00:13:09.659
help native bees. There was a beekeeping trend
00:13:09.659 --> 00:13:13.000
in London in 2013, and I actually would have
00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.340
to look it up. I think they had like, what was
00:13:15.340 --> 00:13:18.440
it, like 10 hives per square mile in London.
00:13:18.779 --> 00:13:21.559
There's no plants for that, so their bees died.
00:13:24.980 --> 00:13:27.200
Quick break to thank our presenting sponsor,
00:13:27.539 --> 00:13:30.299
Man Lake. Whether you're a beekeeper or not,
00:13:30.659 --> 00:13:33.759
you know that nutrition is key for healthy honeybees,
00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:37.320
native bees, and other pollinators. The Man Lake
00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:40.360
app is a great resource for determining pollinator
00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:43.659
friendly plants that thrive in your area. And
00:13:43.659 --> 00:13:46.840
its plant identification feature is super helpful
00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:50.220
and fun. When I see a plant covered in bees,
00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:53.639
I fire up the app on my phone, I find out what
00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:56.480
that plant is, and then I can put them in my
00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:00.419
own yard. The bees love it. If you haven't already
00:14:00.419 --> 00:14:03.059
downloaded the Man Lake app, give it a try today.
00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:10.840
Oh, and by the way, it's free. A couple years
00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:13.519
ago, Slovenia, they're a very big honey culture.
00:14:13.700 --> 00:14:16.340
They're big on bees. And it got so popular that
00:14:16.340 --> 00:14:19.059
they were having more hives but less honey because
00:14:19.059 --> 00:14:21.899
there wasn't enough food. So people have to start
00:14:21.899 --> 00:14:24.240
thinking about that. It's really, is there enough
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.740
food for all of them? And the answer is probably
00:14:26.740 --> 00:14:30.240
not. And we can fix that. It's an easy fix. We
00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:32.759
can plant. We can plant the species native to
00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:35.679
our area. So one of the things that I have found
00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:38.940
personally, and I have mentioned our pussy willow
00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:42.059
tree on this show before, but I absolutely love
00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:43.940
this thing. I'm going to be planting a few more
00:14:43.940 --> 00:14:47.519
of them. I love it because where I am, it's the
00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:51.139
very first food source that the bees have in
00:14:51.139 --> 00:14:54.179
the spring. Yep. When I go out to this tree,
00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:59.000
I see honeybees, a few different kinds of native
00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:03.539
bees, bumblebees. butterflies, and they all seem
00:15:03.539 --> 00:15:06.139
to be getting along great. And they're all foraging
00:15:06.139 --> 00:15:10.279
on this tree just fine. So is that an example
00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:13.240
of how they can get along? I mean, hopefully
00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:16.659
that's not pushing some native bees out. Or is
00:15:16.659 --> 00:15:20.179
it? I think it's about quantity. You know, is
00:15:20.179 --> 00:15:22.700
there enough of the willow to go around? I mean,
00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.360
I don't think people realize how much forest
00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:30.639
and how much prairie we have removed. So if you
00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:32.980
really look around your neighborhoods, you are
00:15:32.980 --> 00:15:35.820
going to see these big mown lawns everywhere.
00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:37.980
You're going to see a lot of road. You might
00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:41.539
see sidewalk. We've removed what used to be solid
00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:45.179
prairie, solid forest. So you can always add
00:15:45.179 --> 00:15:47.519
more, in my opinion. And I very much advocate
00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:50.179
for people replacing lawn with pollinator gardens.
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.639
Doesn't mean you can't have some lawn. It just
00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:55.279
means think about how much lawn you really need
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:56.879
and is there something else you could do with
00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:00.490
it. So willow is very nutritious. It's especially
00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:04.090
good for a lot of native bees, and it has a very
00:16:04.090 --> 00:16:07.129
high protein count compared to some other pollens
00:16:07.129 --> 00:16:09.509
like dandelion, which is not native. So it's
00:16:09.509 --> 00:16:12.230
very nutritious, and it's very desirable. And
00:16:12.230 --> 00:16:14.590
at least in my area, it blooms very early. So
00:16:14.590 --> 00:16:16.909
it's very good for native bees who are waking
00:16:16.909 --> 00:16:19.309
up after the winter and need food right away.
00:16:19.690 --> 00:16:22.629
So it's great. I'd say plant more. Let it spread.
00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:26.259
So how do we balance the whole fact that we need
00:16:26.259 --> 00:16:29.580
more housing, so we need more development, yet
00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:32.440
we need prairie and we need all this other stuff?
00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:35.080
I think that's part of what you do in your consulting
00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:38.399
is helping municipalities figure out a good balance.
00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:41.620
Well, you really, it's not a choice with housing.
00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:45.019
It's the way we landscape and it's the way we
00:16:45.019 --> 00:16:49.120
build. You can create a lot of housing and have
00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:52.590
pollinator gardens. instead of lawn. You can
00:16:52.590 --> 00:16:55.490
create a beautiful city and have rooftop gardens
00:16:55.490 --> 00:16:57.710
that are filled with native plants. You can have
00:16:57.710 --> 00:17:00.110
a beautiful city that has a lot of shade trees
00:17:00.110 --> 00:17:02.730
that are native instead of non -native trees
00:17:02.730 --> 00:17:04.589
that don't provide the same habitat in their
00:17:04.589 --> 00:17:07.990
parks. You can create roadways that are not just
00:17:07.990 --> 00:17:10.470
asphalt with concrete and have lots of trees
00:17:10.470 --> 00:17:13.029
and under those trees you could have little native
00:17:13.029 --> 00:17:15.549
plant gardens all along the sidewalk. These have
00:17:15.549 --> 00:17:18.049
multiple benefits for a community. It's not just
00:17:18.049 --> 00:17:20.589
for their bees. It's not just for the other It
00:17:20.589 --> 00:17:23.589
also makes it a cooler city. Even plants that
00:17:23.589 --> 00:17:26.769
don't provide shade cool the air around them
00:17:26.769 --> 00:17:30.170
just because of the way they do transpiration.
00:17:30.349 --> 00:17:32.789
So they're always putting moisture back in. So
00:17:32.789 --> 00:17:35.390
there are multiple benefits, plus drainage. One
00:17:35.390 --> 00:17:37.769
of the things that happens when you have a lot
00:17:37.769 --> 00:17:43.029
of asphalt and brick and lawn is the storm water,
00:17:43.029 --> 00:17:45.750
when it comes, doesn't drain into the ground
00:17:45.750 --> 00:17:48.740
like it should. And so that leads to flooding.
00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.240
It can overwhelm sewer systems. But if you have
00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:53.740
native plant gardens, they will absorb that.
00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:55.720
And we've seen that in our yard. We used to get
00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:58.140
like big standing water every year when it rained
00:17:58.140 --> 00:18:00.259
and rained in the spring. And now we just don't
00:18:00.259 --> 00:18:03.859
get that even when it pours for days. So it has
00:18:03.859 --> 00:18:06.539
multiple benefits. And it doesn't require not
00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:08.920
building housing. And what you're describing
00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:11.859
would be a much more beautiful city anyway. That's
00:18:11.859 --> 00:18:14.279
what I think. They just need to talk to people
00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:16.500
like you to figure out how to do it and do it
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:19.079
right. There you go. There's your plug for your
00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:21.220
business right there. Talk to me. Do it and do
00:18:21.220 --> 00:18:24.180
it right. Yeah, I'll work on that tagline. But
00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:27.759
I think the idea is that it can get so antagonistic.
00:18:27.779 --> 00:18:30.019
And I heard this when I spoke to Cindy's group
00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:32.519
that somebody had been upset that someone had
00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:34.839
posted on Facebook that they were going to start
00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:37.259
beekeeping and somebody started trolling them
00:18:37.259 --> 00:18:42.460
about how awful that was for native bees. It's
00:18:42.460 --> 00:18:44.980
just emblematic of our culture at this moment
00:18:44.980 --> 00:18:47.579
in history that we attack instead of finding
00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:49.859
balance. There are ways to have honeybees that
00:18:49.859 --> 00:18:54.460
don't have to be such a problem. It takes a little
00:18:54.460 --> 00:18:57.279
consideration and I think that beekeepers can
00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:00.940
be a huge advocate Just a huge lobby for native
00:19:00.940 --> 00:19:03.900
plants and you can put them on solar farms. You
00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:06.619
can put them on rooftops You can put them in
00:19:06.619 --> 00:19:09.099
parking lots instead of just straight asphalt
00:19:09.099 --> 00:19:11.500
I mean, I think we've all parked in parking lots
00:19:11.500 --> 00:19:14.500
where you just dread the walk into Wherever you're
00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:17.420
going because it's so hot to get there But there
00:19:17.420 --> 00:19:19.279
are different ways you can landscape that and
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:21.970
still have parking. There are also alternative
00:19:21.970 --> 00:19:24.410
modes of transportation that might be a little
00:19:24.410 --> 00:19:27.529
nicer also, but certainly that works. So I think
00:19:27.529 --> 00:19:29.690
people are just very quick to take sides and
00:19:29.690 --> 00:19:32.690
attack when there are ways to come together.
00:19:33.769 --> 00:19:35.849
And I think native plants are just an easier
00:19:35.849 --> 00:19:38.470
answer than yelling at each other. Just plant
00:19:38.470 --> 00:19:41.250
more native plants. And beekeepers really should
00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:44.269
be a good advocate. Yeah. as far as a group,
00:19:44.569 --> 00:19:47.410
because in general, beekeepers are in tune with
00:19:47.410 --> 00:19:49.890
the environment. They're looking at what's blooming.
00:19:50.349 --> 00:19:53.170
They care about that sort of thing. And it's
00:19:53.170 --> 00:19:56.069
not that they don't care about native pollinators.
00:19:56.690 --> 00:19:59.730
They do. I mean, you can love your honeybees
00:19:59.730 --> 00:20:02.430
and love the native pollinators. And I think
00:20:02.430 --> 00:20:05.710
that's the mindset of most of us beekeepers.
00:20:05.930 --> 00:20:09.089
We need a little education too. Most people don't
00:20:09.089 --> 00:20:13.180
know. Let's talk about pesticides. herbicides.
00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:18.279
Yep. I would guess that anything that is bad
00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:20.859
for honeybees is also bad for native bees. Is
00:20:20.859 --> 00:20:24.940
that the case? Damn it. And that's why I always
00:20:24.940 --> 00:20:28.759
talk about avoiding pesticides as much as possible.
00:20:28.900 --> 00:20:31.180
Because one, they're not good for us either.
00:20:31.619 --> 00:20:35.240
But what happens is when a pesticide is tested
00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:40.950
in the lab, it's one... You know, it's the one
00:20:40.950 --> 00:20:43.670
compound that is tested. But in real life, the
00:20:43.670 --> 00:20:46.430
bees are experiencing all of them at once. They're
00:20:46.430 --> 00:20:49.269
experiencing neonicotinoids and other organophosphates
00:20:49.269 --> 00:20:52.569
and fungicides and herbicides and all these different
00:20:52.569 --> 00:20:56.630
things all at once. And that bioaccumulates in
00:20:56.630 --> 00:20:58.589
their bodies, so they're not just responding
00:20:58.589 --> 00:21:02.200
to one thing. and that even if they don't die,
00:21:02.500 --> 00:21:05.099
it creates problems. And that is something that
00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:07.279
affects native bees as well as honey bees and
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:10.539
other pollinators as well. And people have a
00:21:10.539 --> 00:21:12.420
tendency to spray for mosquitoes, but spraying
00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:14.480
for mosquitoes is not the way to get rid of mosquitoes.
00:21:15.019 --> 00:21:17.859
So that's just not where they breed. And in fact,
00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:20.220
if you plant for pollinators, you might bring
00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:22.380
in more of the predators that would eat those.
00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:26.579
So again, it's more of a balance. How do I know
00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:30.059
and other people know what kinds of native plants
00:21:30.059 --> 00:21:32.960
I should be planting around me. In fact, what
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:35.019
plants are native to here in the first place?
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:37.299
Where do we go to get that information? Because
00:21:37.299 --> 00:21:40.519
it's going to be different everywhere. Yep. And
00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:41.960
that's good because that means you're getting
00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:44.279
stuff specific to your area and not just some
00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:46.339
wildflower packet, which is usually packed with
00:21:46.339 --> 00:21:48.119
all kinds of tropical things that are not native
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.309
here. I will say it is so much easier now than
00:21:51.309 --> 00:21:53.549
it was even five years ago, or let alone the
00:21:53.549 --> 00:21:55.410
90s, which is when I did my first pollinator
00:21:55.410 --> 00:21:58.390
garden, which was a total fiasco. And there are
00:21:58.390 --> 00:22:00.609
a couple things you can do. One, you can Google
00:22:00.609 --> 00:22:03.470
it. You can literally just put in your zip code
00:22:03.470 --> 00:22:06.430
or say native plants by zip code. Another thing
00:22:06.430 --> 00:22:10.440
is there is a a national nonprofit called Wild
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.220
Ones. And there are chapters all over the country,
00:22:13.220 --> 00:22:15.579
and you can go online. And they are all about
00:22:15.579 --> 00:22:17.839
promoting native plants. And if you find your
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:19.619
local chapter, they will probably be able to
00:22:19.619 --> 00:22:21.900
show you exactly where your local native plant
00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:24.759
nursery is. They can also help you find different
00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.079
people online that are selling that are going
00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:29.660
to find the ones for your area. So you can look
00:22:29.660 --> 00:22:33.099
for range maps from there. And I think, let's
00:22:33.099 --> 00:22:35.180
see, National Wildlife Federation has some wonderful
00:22:35.180 --> 00:22:37.420
ecoregions, Homegrown National Park as well.
00:22:37.470 --> 00:22:40.390
can really help you see for your specific area
00:22:40.390 --> 00:22:43.029
what you should be planting. So Google's your
00:22:43.029 --> 00:22:45.289
friend and there are a lot of resources out there
00:22:45.289 --> 00:22:47.829
to help you. That's also going to help you save
00:22:47.829 --> 00:22:51.329
on water and things like that too. If you're
00:22:51.329 --> 00:22:54.730
planting what belongs in your area, if you're
00:22:54.730 --> 00:22:58.690
in a really dry area like I am, we shouldn't
00:22:58.690 --> 00:23:01.450
be putting in Kentucky bluegrass, for example,
00:23:01.890 --> 00:23:04.789
that uses so much water. Yeah. Exactly. Okay,
00:23:05.029 --> 00:23:07.930
what about, would my local extension service
00:23:07.930 --> 00:23:10.869
also be a good resource for that? I think that
00:23:10.869 --> 00:23:13.369
depends on your local extension service. Hopefully
00:23:13.369 --> 00:23:15.509
they've heard about native plants at this point.
00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:19.339
It just depends. A lot of master gardeners know,
00:23:19.420 --> 00:23:21.299
I mean they know more than I will ever know about
00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:24.799
plants in terms of vegetable gardens and the
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:28.019
non -native plants that are so popular. Not all
00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:30.160
of them are as familiar with native plants. So
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.339
I would first look for people who have some kind
00:23:33.339 --> 00:23:36.420
of pollinator specialization or go to your wild
00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:38.700
ones for more information. Because they'll have
00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:41.160
seed swaps to get you started and that's also
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:43.200
can be very inexpensive. They'll know the local
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:45.660
nurseries. But certainly start with your extension
00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:48.539
if that's a group that you know seed and ask
00:23:48.539 --> 00:23:50.279
about it say you know can you help me find the
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:52.460
native plants that might be a great resource
00:23:52.460 --> 00:23:55.559
now you're not a beekeeper but you did tell me
00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:58.000
previously that you had a wild and crazy story
00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:01.039
you mentioned one about honeybees and one about
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.000
wasps where do you want to start okay well so
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.180
wasn't a honeybee was just bees I don't know
00:24:06.180 --> 00:24:11.109
what kind of okay all I know is Many, many, many
00:24:11.109 --> 00:24:14.329
years ago in my long gone youth, I did Renaissance
00:24:14.329 --> 00:24:16.670
Festival in Minnesota. And so you're wearing
00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:20.329
those big skirts, right? And I must have sat
00:24:20.329 --> 00:24:24.119
down on some kind of hive or something. So I'd
00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:26.539
never been stung by a bee before and I'm in the
00:24:26.539 --> 00:24:28.920
audience watching some other performer give his
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:31.759
show and I leapt up, I think higher than I've
00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:34.440
ever leapt up in my life just screaming and it
00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:36.339
had just blown up my skirt and gotten trapped.
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:38.980
And I will say the only other time in my life
00:24:38.980 --> 00:24:41.299
I've ever been stung. It also flew up my shorts
00:24:41.299 --> 00:24:43.799
and got me on the thighs. So I always thought
00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:46.839
they were freakish little pervs. I was like,
00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:49.640
what is the problem? So that's my only experience
00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:52.009
being stung by a bee. That's my only real. bee
00:24:52.009 --> 00:24:53.990
experience other than planting for them. I love
00:24:53.990 --> 00:24:56.329
to plant for them. Yeah and we don't know what
00:24:56.329 --> 00:25:00.549
kind of bees those were. I know it. Do most native
00:25:00.549 --> 00:25:03.869
bees have stingers and sting is a defensive weapon?
00:25:04.329 --> 00:25:07.349
Most native bees do not sting. They do not because
00:25:07.349 --> 00:25:10.630
90 % are solitary so they're not going to sting
00:25:10.630 --> 00:25:12.569
you. They don't have the instinct to defend that
00:25:12.569 --> 00:25:16.160
nest. So now some might, you know, some if there's
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:19.380
a hive, certainly might, but a lot of our hive
00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:22.460
nesters are bumblebees and you have to really
00:25:22.460 --> 00:25:24.559
step on them to annoy them in my experience.
00:25:25.059 --> 00:25:28.240
So they're not usually a big stinging risk and
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:30.680
some can't sting me at all. How does somebody
00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:33.980
find out what native bees are around them or
00:25:33.980 --> 00:25:37.039
if they see something they can't quite identify?
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:39.819
I mean is there a resource for this? Like if
00:25:39.819 --> 00:25:42.900
I took a picture of a bee and I'm like I have
00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:45.700
no idea what kind of bee that is or is it a fly?
00:25:45.779 --> 00:25:47.920
Is it even a bee? How do we figure that out?
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:50.380
Okay so two questions. First of all I would say
00:25:50.380 --> 00:25:54.299
iNaturalist is an app where you can upload and
00:25:54.299 --> 00:25:56.819
other people who love identifying bugs and other
00:25:56.819 --> 00:25:58.940
things in your area will jump right on and help
00:25:58.940 --> 00:26:02.150
you identify. Also, there's a lot of information
00:26:02.150 --> 00:26:04.009
out there about how do you distinguish wasps
00:26:04.009 --> 00:26:06.210
from flies from bees because there are a lot
00:26:06.210 --> 00:26:08.690
of mimics out there, and that's a lot of fun
00:26:08.690 --> 00:26:12.289
to do. Like, I found out that a lot of critters
00:26:12.289 --> 00:26:14.190
that I'd been calling bees turned out to be flies,
00:26:14.230 --> 00:26:16.089
so I had no idea. So that was really interesting.
00:26:16.750 --> 00:26:18.430
All right, I'm going to let you have the last
00:26:18.430 --> 00:26:21.230
word. Go ahead and wrap up with, just in general,
00:26:21.730 --> 00:26:24.529
what kinds of things can we and should we be
00:26:24.529 --> 00:26:27.180
doing. that are going to help these, I'm just
00:26:27.180 --> 00:26:29.140
going to say native pollinators because it's
00:26:29.140 --> 00:26:31.079
more than just bees. We're trying to help them
00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:34.059
all. That is true. The number one thing you can
00:26:34.059 --> 00:26:37.460
do is plant native species to your area. The
00:26:37.460 --> 00:26:40.359
other thing you can do is stop using pesticides.
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:44.140
Advocate for people to not so wantonly use pesticides.
00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:47.460
People spray them all over their lawns and that
00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:49.920
floats. That doesn't just go right where people
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:54.390
spray it. 70 % of our native bees are ground
00:26:54.390 --> 00:26:56.589
nesting. So when you spray that into the ground,
00:26:56.950 --> 00:26:58.710
that affects them. That's where they're living.
00:26:59.269 --> 00:27:02.069
So this whole approach to just having to recklessly
00:27:02.069 --> 00:27:04.829
spray everything to keep a perfect lawn is a
00:27:04.829 --> 00:27:07.130
problem. So I would say those are the two things
00:27:07.130 --> 00:27:11.509
to help support native bees and other pollinators
00:27:11.509 --> 00:27:14.349
and your honeybees. And what's a good way to
00:27:14.349 --> 00:27:17.569
advocate with our city or town, wherever we are?
00:27:17.950 --> 00:27:20.519
Well, That's always a fun one. You can call them
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:22.980
up or email them. You can show up at your town
00:27:22.980 --> 00:27:26.200
meetings. I find that showing up and just introducing
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:29.039
yourself or setting up a meeting with your town
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:31.819
supervisor or your mayor and saying, this is
00:27:31.819 --> 00:27:34.200
important to me. And I raise honeybees, but I
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:35.960
know that native bees are important, too. And
00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:38.380
I want to make sure that there's enough forage.
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:40.279
And I would like to encourage native planting
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:42.960
here. I find that to be very helpful. Maybe talk
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.599
to them about their landscaping contract. Yeah,
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:47.599
I've certainly had success working with communities
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:50.720
on that to say maybe stop spraying pesticide
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:52.759
on the lawn. Is that necessary? Maybe you don't
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:55.440
need to fertilize. Maybe you can just overseed.
00:27:55.619 --> 00:27:58.230
Maybe you can reduce some of that lawn. help
00:27:58.230 --> 00:28:00.190
them start thinking about it, start advocating.
00:28:00.910 --> 00:28:04.390
And I always recommend not coming in all angry
00:28:04.390 --> 00:28:07.230
and agitated. Come in and educate. People don't
00:28:07.230 --> 00:28:10.990
know. Most people only know about bees as honeybees,
00:28:11.049 --> 00:28:12.890
and most people don't even know much about that.
00:28:13.269 --> 00:28:15.269
So they certainly don't know about all the variety
00:28:15.269 --> 00:28:18.069
of life cycles in native bees. And most people
00:28:18.069 --> 00:28:20.410
don't understand pollinators. They think if they
00:28:20.410 --> 00:28:22.509
plant a lot of zinnias, they're helping pollinators.
00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:26.460
And that's not really how it works. So people
00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:28.759
want to help. I have found over the years people
00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:30.500
tremendously want to help. They just don't know
00:28:30.500 --> 00:28:33.619
how because nobody's really educated about this.
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.700
So educate. Help them find resources and encourage
00:28:37.700 --> 00:28:40.539
them. And then when they do what you want, thank
00:28:40.539 --> 00:28:43.700
them. It encourages them to do more. Help them
00:28:43.700 --> 00:28:45.460
plant a pollinator garden. Work with your local
00:28:45.460 --> 00:28:47.539
Wild West chapter to get some gardens in your
00:28:47.539 --> 00:28:51.160
community. Jennifer, Michelle, I really appreciate
00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:54.539
your time. We will stick a link or an email,
00:28:54.579 --> 00:28:56.980
whatever you want, in the show notes in case
00:28:56.980 --> 00:28:59.579
people want to reach out to you and see if you
00:28:59.579 --> 00:29:01.460
can be some kind of a resource for them. Would
00:29:01.460 --> 00:29:03.819
that be okay? That would be great. And thank
00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:05.619
you so much for the chance to come and talk to
00:29:05.619 --> 00:29:11.779
you and all of your audience. Thanks again for
00:29:11.779 --> 00:29:14.299
joining us here on Be Love, Be Keeping presented
00:29:14.299 --> 00:29:18.230
by Man Lake. Remember right now to follow or
00:29:18.230 --> 00:29:21.829
subscribe and share this podcast. Also a quick
00:29:21.829 --> 00:29:24.250
shout out to Vita B Health for their support.
00:29:25.049 --> 00:29:27.950
Vita's Varroa Control range of products includes
00:29:27.950 --> 00:29:32.230
Apistan, Apigard, and now Varroxan Extended Release
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Oxalic Acid Strips. Thanks guys. And remember,
00:29:36.250 --> 00:29:38.450
if you're not just in it for the honey or the
00:29:38.450 --> 00:29:41.150
money, you're in it for the love. See you next
00:29:41.150 --> 00:29:41.470
week.
