Dr. Thomas Seeley Pt. 2: 10 Unusual Bee Behaviors

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in a world brimming with complexity few creatures

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embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless

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precision she dances from bloom to bloom each

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motion guided by millennia upon millennia of

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instinct each act in service to the whole and

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then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards

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of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,

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part poet, they move along their hives with the

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efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to

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the bee's needs as best they can comprehend,

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and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the

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Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing

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like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their

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journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love, Be Keep

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being presented by our good friends over at Man

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Lake. Today's show features the conclusion of

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our discussion with the amazing Dr. Tom Seeley.

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We'll learn about everything from the tremble

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dance to drone congregation areas, Bee's various

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jobs in the hive, even the proper pronunciation

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of the word, I better just spell it, P -R -O

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-P -O -L -I -S, and a whole ton more. We might

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even find out if he has a wild and crazy story

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to share. Now let's head back to Maine and our

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discussion with Dr. Tom Seeley. Tell me how beekeeping

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has changed over the years, since you've been

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doing this for 56 years. And I don't mean to

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pronounce it like that as, well, you must be

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100 years old, but that's a long time. And people

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I've talked to, old timers, are like, it used

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to be so easy. Yeah, it used to be that the American

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fowl brood was common and New York State had

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a regular inspection. You're required to get

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your colonies inspected every year. I haven't

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seen an American fowl brood in decades. Maybe

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that's unusual, but I think American fowl brood

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has gone way down in its incidence. Chalk brood

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was when that first came in. That used to be

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a real problem. I don't know what the experience

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of others is, but I haven't seen it in a long

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time. And I think that's a good example of how

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natural selection worked. There was very strong

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selection in favor of colonies that could handle

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chalkbrood, because we didn't really have any

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treatment for it. Another key feature of this.

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treatment -free beekeeping is letting colonies

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swarm. That brood break is hugely valuable. And

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I think for Kirk Webster in Vermont, he doesn't

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have his colonies swarming, but he's making splits

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of them all the time because he sells a lot of

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three -frame or five -frame nucs. He rears his

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own queens and he splits his colonies, so there's

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brood breaks. Oh, we've talked a little bit about

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swarming and swarm behavior, and this is something

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that you are absolutely an expert on, and I loved

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reading about some of your experiments on an

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island, what were you, seven miles off the Atlantic

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coast? Yep, a little treeless 100 -acre island,

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no natural nest sites. And I assume that the

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idea of that was you're far enough away that

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you're not going to get bees out there that aren't

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part of your experiment. and bees in your experiment

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can't just leave. And yeah, without trees, when

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you're learning swarming behavior, you were giving

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them places to swarm to, and those were their

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only options. What are some of the highlights

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of things that you learned? Well, one of the

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first things I wanted to do was figure out...

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I knew that bees avoid cavities... nest cavities

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that are too small. So in general, when I began

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my work on this island, and it was just as you

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said, it was an island where I controlled the

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options of the bees, the home site options. I

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would set up, instead of an observation hive,

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I had set up an observation nest box so I could

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see what the nest site scouts do when they go

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inside a potential home site. And I knew that

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the bees were very careful to avoid an a nest

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cavity that was too small. So I knew, well, how

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do they measure the volume of one of these cavities?

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So one of the experiments I did on this island

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was I built a nest box. It was a cylinder that

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I could rotate. Because I could rotate the walls,

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I could make it, I could shorten the amount of

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walking a nest site scout had to do to walk around

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to make us, to trip around inside the cavity,

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or I could make it longer. The cylindrical nest

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box that they walked into which was mounted on

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a turntable thing so it could be rotated smoothly.

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It was right on the threshold of being big enough.

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So if I made the bees walk more, if walking was

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how they measured it, then if I made it walk

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more, then they should think it was good, really

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good. If I made it so they had to walk less than

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they normally had to walk to get around from

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where the... light is, where the entrance is,

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back to the entrance place, then they should

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think it's too small. And that's in fact what

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happened. If I made a nestsight scout not have

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to walk much to circumnavigate the cylinder,

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she didn't like it, she wouldn't go back and

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dance. If I made her walk more, a longer distance

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to walk to circumnavigate this cavity, she would

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go back and she'd dance. She thought it was the

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right size, it was big enough. So that was one

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of the features of working on this island. There

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was a downside, too, though, Eric. There were

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two lobster fishermen. They had their houses

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on this island. And my bees were pretty desperate.

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So one of my early swarms, I think it was my

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first swarm, they found the chimney of one of

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the lobster fishermen. And they liked that. They

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liked that place a lot. And I had been told to

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never go over to Rodney Sullivan's place because

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he He didn't like people poking around his house.

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But I had to, and introduced myself. And the

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fierce Rodney Sullivan, once he learned that

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I knew about bees and could get rid of them out

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of his chimney, he was a very accommodating gentleman.

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So it just involved getting a ladder up on the

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side of his house and sealing off his chimney,

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putting some screen over his chimney. That's

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the kind of stuff on the island. The island became

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a laboratory, because I... I controlled the options

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of what the nest site scouts could look at. Any

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other interesting tidbits that you learned that

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beekeepers can use? You mean from the island

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or in general? Yeah, from the island. I mean,

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you learned about the size of a box that swarms

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light, right? Yeah, and the main thing I learned

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on the island with respect to that was how they

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assess the volume of the box. I already knew

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that they wanted They were avoiding really small

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cavities and really large cavities. They had

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a size around one deep hive body that was the

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sweet spot for them. A lot of the other things

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we learned on the island, and here's one that's

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again useful. We learned, we studied a lot how

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the swarms organized their movement once they

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finished their decision making. We could take

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a swarm out to the island. We could watch, again,

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we could watch what the scouts are doing at a

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prospective home site. And we could also watch

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what they're doing, of course, back at the swarm.

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One of the things that we studied really closely

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was once the nestsite scouts have finished making

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a choice, they've built up, they've reached,

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found a site that's become popular enough, how

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do they then tell all the other bees in the swarm

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cluster to get ready to take flight? And so we

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learned that they make a special sound. It's

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called piping. It sounds like... We learned that

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that's the warm -up signal. And then we learned

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that they have another signal. Once the nest

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site scouts have gotten all of the other bees

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in the swarm cluster warm enough, they have a

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takeoff signal. It's called the buzz run, where

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a bee runs across the surface and burrows into

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the swarm cluster while buzzing her wings. So

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we learned a lot about how they... organize the

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takeoff of the swarm. And we also studied how

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they steer the swarm to its new home site. Again,

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because we had control of all these things. We

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knew we could set up a swarm on one side of the

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island. We could put up the nest box down a road

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on the island and follow the movement of the

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swarm during its flight and video record it.

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The video recording was very tricky because you

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have to have the swarm fly right over your video

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camera. So it's looking straight up. And I worked

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with an engineer from Ohio State who was a whiz

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at this kind of thing. It became very clear how

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the scout bees steer a swarm. They do it by shooting

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through the top of the swarm in the direction

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that they want the swarm to move. And when a

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scout bee shoots through it, she gets to the

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front of the swarm, then she flies back slowly

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and underneath the swarm until she's in the back

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again and then she'll shoot through it again.

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So they keep pointing the way. So those are some

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of the things, how the swarms move. So much of

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the biology of swarms is hard to study unless

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you know where the swarm is. You can watch the

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swarm and you know where it's going. And then

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we learned how they organized the move into the

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home site. And when these scout bees go out and

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they come back and they're somehow communicating

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with the swarm and they're doing it by dancing

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and pointing and And you can explain it much

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more scientifically than I can. But I don't get

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how a collective decision is made. I mean, we

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use human terms and you even use the human term

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democracy and voting. But is it really like voting

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or is it more like convincing or is it, I don't

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know, how does it really happen? Let me begin

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to answer that, Eric, by saying why I use the

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word democracy. I use that term because it is

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a collective decision -making process. There's

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no one individual that gets to, there's no, there's

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nobody that's the supreme decider in this thing.

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It's dispersed among all the Nessite scouts.

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Including the queen, by the way. She's not the

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supreme decider. She's not the supreme leader.

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She's passive in the decision -making of the

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new home site. You might say it's... It's a form

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of democracy where it's like, you know, in our

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own election system, we vote, but it ultimately

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comes down to the electoral college that actually

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makes the votes that get counted. So in other

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words, you don't have 20 ,000 bees in a swarm

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all raising their left wing and saying, yeah,

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we want to go that way. You have an electoral

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college of all these scouts that are saying,

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Hey, together we have found the best spot. Let's

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go everybody. Yeah, it's about 5 % of the swarm.

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This are the nest site scouts. They're the oldest

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bees, elderly bees in the swarm. And they do

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have a real debate on the swarm because different

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bees will come back from different sites. The

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way the best site wins in this competition is

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that the nest site scouts adjust how long a waggle

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dance they perform, how many dance circuits they

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will perform in relation to the goodness of their

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site. If a bee comes back from a humdinger of

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a nest site, she might do 200 dance circuits.

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If she comes back from one that's okay but not

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great, she might do 20. And if it's a poor site,

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she won't do any. Different strength of the advertising

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of the different sites means that the best site

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gets the most additional scout bees recruited

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to it. This decision -making process goes on

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with this differential buildup of nest site scouts

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here versus there. But whichever site first gains

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what I call a quorum of nest site scouts, and

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I don't know quite how the bees sense a quorum,

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but it means there's enough bees going to that

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site. Enough bees are encountered at that site.

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That tells the nest site scouts who are having

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these high encounter rates with fellow nest site

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scouts at a site. That tells those bees, our

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site has attracted enough popularity that we

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consider it the winner. And then those bees,

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those nest site scouts come back to the swarm.

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They just shut down the debate by switching from

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doing waggle dances to doing these piping signals,

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which basically tells the other bees, we figured

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this out. Let's get ready to take off. Once everybody's

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launched into the air, those nest site scouts

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point the way, steer the other bees by pointing

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the way to fly to the new home site, the chosen

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site. It's absolutely amazing. It just is mind

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-boggling. I agree. I agree. This is a complexity

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of behavior by insects that is absolutely astonishing.

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And I think of all of the different behaviors

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that worker honeybees do, I think these nest

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site scouts are, they are doing the most complicated

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task, performing the most complex task. Finding

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the sites, differentially recruiting to the site.

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sensing whether the site is a winner or not.

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If it is the winner, then going back and moving

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the process from the decision -making stage to

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taking the action to make the flight to the new

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home site, and then guiding the flight and then

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marking the site when the swarm cloud gets there

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by releasing the assembly pheromone. Yeah, it

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is... It is breathtaking. And that is why I wrote

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a whole book on this subject. You know, you might

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think, how can you write a whole book on swarming?

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Well, you can't because that decision -making

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and that whole collective decision -making process

00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:37.259
is just so utterly amazing. If you're a beekeeper

00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:40.039
like me, we're getting into that favorite time

00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:43.080
of year, honey harvest. But it can be a lot of

00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:46.100
work. That's where Man Lake comes in. They have

00:14:46.100 --> 00:14:49.169
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00:14:49.169 --> 00:14:53.250
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00:14:53.690 --> 00:14:57.269
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00:14:57.350 --> 00:14:59.889
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00:14:59.889 --> 00:15:02.350
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00:15:02.350 --> 00:15:05.750
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00:15:05.750 --> 00:15:08.809
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00:15:08.809 --> 00:15:11.909
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00:15:11.909 --> 00:15:15.669
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00:15:17.110 --> 00:15:20.440
There's no other animal on the planet other than

00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:23.840
honeybees that have this kind of, where anybody's

00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:27.000
found anything like this ability to perform collective

00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:29.480
decision making. We are it. None of the ants,

00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:32.840
none of the primates, none of the birds. I mean,

00:15:32.899 --> 00:15:35.460
there are many social birds. The ants are all

00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:39.220
social. It's just humans and honeybees that can

00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:41.840
do this kind of thing. And that's pretty cool.

00:15:42.019 --> 00:15:44.899
I think that's really cool. It is really cool.

00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:48.419
Your book... piping hot bees, you talk about

00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:52.460
20 mysteries of bee behavior solved. We don't

00:15:52.460 --> 00:15:54.820
have time to go into all 20. You want to pick

00:15:54.820 --> 00:15:57.399
a favorite one of those to talk about? That's

00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:00.440
like asking which is your favorite child. You

00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:02.799
mean you don't have a favorite? I tell each of

00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:05.960
my kids they're the favorite. Okay, well, let

00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:08.240
me collect my thoughts a little bit about that.

00:16:08.940 --> 00:16:10.360
What I'm thinking the way I'm going to answer

00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:13.299
your question, Eric, is I might emphasize one

00:16:13.299 --> 00:16:17.039
that is a behavior that is not much discussed

00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:20.820
in any of the beekeeping books. Well, there's

00:16:20.820 --> 00:16:23.759
several chapters in there devoted to this house

00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:26.220
hunting process. That's fun. I'm proud of the

00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:28.399
first chapter because it was the very first scientific

00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:30.600
study I did. It was how the bees are sensitive

00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.360
to carbon dioxide, the carbon dioxide level inside

00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:36.740
their nest, and they will ventilate the nest

00:16:36.740 --> 00:16:40.320
carefully if the CO2 level gets too high. One

00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.220
of those jumps out is the chapter about resin

00:16:44.220 --> 00:16:47.889
work. That's something that is pretty obscure

00:16:47.889 --> 00:16:49.769
when you're doing your beekeeping, because it's

00:16:49.769 --> 00:16:52.330
only a small number of bees, but they're bees

00:16:52.330 --> 00:16:54.730
that are dedicated to go out and collecting resin,

00:16:54.769 --> 00:16:57.029
and it's really cool how they organize their

00:16:57.029 --> 00:16:59.509
work. I admire those resin collectors, because

00:16:59.509 --> 00:17:02.049
they're special. There aren't very many of them,

00:17:02.049 --> 00:17:04.130
but they do a very important task of getting

00:17:04.130 --> 00:17:07.730
that antiseptic material into the nest. And we're

00:17:07.730 --> 00:17:10.740
talking about propolis now. Yeah, that's right.

00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:12.799
Well, I call it resin, but when the bees mix

00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.940
it with beeswax, then it becomes propolis. Yeah.

00:17:16.140 --> 00:17:18.160
Okay, and did I pronounce that correctly? Because

00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:20.019
I've heard it pronounced three different ways.

00:17:20.460 --> 00:17:24.440
Propolis, propolis. I think if you looked up

00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:26.380
in the dictionary, but you'd say that you'd probably

00:17:26.380 --> 00:17:29.819
find both ways are valid. I say pro because pro

00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:33.019
means in front. Polis means city. So it's in

00:17:33.019 --> 00:17:35.019
front of the city. That's a very old name. It

00:17:35.019 --> 00:17:38.299
goes back to the Greeks, I think. Propolis. Okay,

00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:40.519
go ahead and talk about the resin collectors.

00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:43.079
Well, the resin collectors are really special.

00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:46.000
They have to find these resin sources, which

00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:49.180
are usually coniferous trees, and they're not

00:17:49.180 --> 00:17:52.200
marked the way nectar and pollen sources are,

00:17:52.539 --> 00:17:55.420
with bright colors and bright smells. They may

00:17:55.420 --> 00:17:58.220
orient to the resin -y smell, but somehow they

00:17:58.220 --> 00:18:01.400
find these sources and then they have to pack

00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:04.640
it into their pollen baskets on their hind legs,

00:18:04.819 --> 00:18:07.680
and then they come into the nest And they can't

00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:10.299
offload it themselves. Whereas all of the nectar

00:18:10.299 --> 00:18:12.019
collectors and the pollen collectors and the

00:18:12.019 --> 00:18:14.640
water collectors, they usually unload their materials

00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:16.880
in the bottom of the nest. That's where those

00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:19.539
materials are needed. The propolis bees, they

00:18:19.539 --> 00:18:21.960
go up to wherever the propolis work is being

00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:24.359
done. And it's often near the top of the nest.

00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:28.720
And then they stand around until one of the propolis

00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:31.829
handlers choose off the propolis off of their

00:18:31.829 --> 00:18:34.170
body. So they have to be pretty patient. It's

00:18:34.170 --> 00:18:37.009
kind of you might think of it as somewhat nasty

00:18:37.009 --> 00:18:39.269
work because you're dealing with this gooey stuff.

00:18:39.869 --> 00:18:42.609
And then you have to be patient. You have to

00:18:42.609 --> 00:18:44.910
go to part of the nest that's unusual wherever

00:18:44.910 --> 00:18:47.930
the propolis work is being done. And so I admire

00:18:47.930 --> 00:18:50.309
those little bees. Once I watched I was following

00:18:50.309 --> 00:18:52.609
one of these resin collectors or propolis collectors.

00:18:53.490 --> 00:18:55.730
It seemed like she got fed up with not getting

00:18:55.730 --> 00:18:58.829
unloaded for like an hour and so she somehow

00:18:58.829 --> 00:19:01.990
she got started to get the resin off her hind

00:19:01.990 --> 00:19:05.069
legs and stick it on the gooey surface where

00:19:05.069 --> 00:19:09.170
it needed to be used. So that's the kind of little

00:19:09.170 --> 00:19:13.049
observation that I think is very endearing and

00:19:13.049 --> 00:19:16.309
also very revealing about the behavioral flexibility

00:19:16.309 --> 00:19:20.069
of a worker honeybee. They have jobs and they

00:19:20.069 --> 00:19:22.450
focus on one thing at a time, but sometimes they

00:19:22.450 --> 00:19:26.369
have to show some enterprising, some ingenuity

00:19:26.369 --> 00:19:29.970
in completing their job, their work. Do those

00:19:29.970 --> 00:19:32.930
jobs change a lot during their lifetime? I know

00:19:32.930 --> 00:19:35.670
most bees start off as nurse bees and then they

00:19:35.670 --> 00:19:38.490
move on to something else but are you gonna have

00:19:38.490 --> 00:19:41.910
a resin collector the next day be a guard bee

00:19:41.910 --> 00:19:44.809
and the next day be something else? I don't have

00:19:44.809 --> 00:19:47.230
a firm answer on that Eric but what I did what

00:19:47.230 --> 00:19:49.930
I can say is I think once you're a resin collector

00:19:49.930 --> 00:19:52.750
you're a resin collector and I know the bees

00:19:52.750 --> 00:19:55.579
that are water collectors They tend to also be

00:19:55.579 --> 00:19:59.339
specialists. These are forager HBs. And I think

00:19:59.339 --> 00:20:02.140
maybe the logic there, why they've organized

00:20:02.140 --> 00:20:05.039
it this way, is that resin is a material. They

00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.039
don't need a lot of it, but they need kind of

00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.619
a trickle of it to get the nest all coated in

00:20:10.619 --> 00:20:13.380
the right places and snugged up, sealed up. I

00:20:13.380 --> 00:20:16.599
think that's part of the logic. If you get working

00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:19.440
on collecting resin, you stay a resin collector.

00:20:20.059 --> 00:20:23.509
With respect to water, Again, in our studies,

00:20:23.670 --> 00:20:26.250
it looked like the water collectors are specialists.

00:20:26.650 --> 00:20:29.009
And I think, again, it's because when there's

00:20:29.009 --> 00:20:31.250
a need for water, you really have to have bees

00:20:31.250 --> 00:20:33.710
that are ready to dive in and start the water

00:20:33.710 --> 00:20:36.269
collection, lest the nests overheat. Those two

00:20:36.269 --> 00:20:37.990
are a little different. That's my sense of the

00:20:37.990 --> 00:20:41.190
situation for those two materials, resin and

00:20:41.190 --> 00:20:44.029
water. You're the expert on behavior, and I'm

00:20:44.029 --> 00:20:47.259
curious about all of it. I also, I can't help

00:20:47.259 --> 00:20:49.460
it, I just realized I'm trying to come up with

00:20:49.460 --> 00:20:53.440
something to stump you. So here's another one.

00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:56.819
It shouldn't be too hard. How do they decide

00:20:56.819 --> 00:20:59.960
who does what? And so that they have just the

00:20:59.960 --> 00:21:02.119
right amount of water collectors and just the

00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:05.380
right amount of resin collectors and we don't

00:21:05.380 --> 00:21:09.119
need 5 ,000 guard bees, we need a handful of

00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:12.420
guard bees. Is there just something innate in

00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:15.079
them that says, oh, we need more guard bees,

00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:17.519
I'm going to do that now? Or do you think there

00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:21.200
is actually some sort of collective decision

00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:24.359
-making on this? Yeah, that's a question that

00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:27.220
I don't think anybody has a good answer to. What

00:21:27.220 --> 00:21:31.099
I can say is that there's a lot of work, not

00:21:31.099 --> 00:21:34.299
done by me, but by a gentleman named Rob Page

00:21:34.299 --> 00:21:37.200
and Gene Robinson, and they find workers that

00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:40.099
are in different patrilines. That is to say,

00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:43.019
that have different fathers. And you may know

00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:45.680
that a queen bee tends to mate with 10 to 20

00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:47.880
different males. So there's a lot of genetic

00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:52.579
variation among the worker bees. Rob Page and

00:21:52.579 --> 00:21:55.079
Gene Robinson find that the bees that are involved

00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:58.359
in water collecting are from some patrilines.

00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:00.759
The resin collectors primarily come from some

00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:03.799
other patrilines. So some of it is genetics.

00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:08.500
But some of it may also be experience. If you

00:22:08.500 --> 00:22:10.880
grow up in a hot hive that might predispose you

00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:13.140
to be a water collector, something like that.

00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:16.799
Or a hive that's getting into the fall and then

00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:18.539
that's when they start to really seal up their

00:22:18.539 --> 00:22:21.319
nest. If you're born in the fall, maybe that

00:22:21.319 --> 00:22:24.380
some way that timing and the need for the resin

00:22:24.380 --> 00:22:27.799
somehow gets into the brain of a worker bee and

00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:30.920
steers her to take up that task. You know, these

00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:34.359
are just speculations, of course. So based on

00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:37.019
that speculation, I'm going to further speculate.

00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:43.019
Can we speculate that a queen bee is choosing

00:22:43.019 --> 00:22:47.460
drones to mate with based on, well, I need genetics

00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:50.599
of a couple of water collectors and I need genetics

00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:53.519
of a couple of resin collectors and I need these

00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:58.380
other genetics? Am I going way too far now? Yeah,

00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:00.960
I'd say, Eric, there's no evidence that especially

00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.519
with respect to the characteristics of the offspring

00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:05.980
of a male, probably most beekeepers have never

00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:09.240
watched had the very special experience of going

00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:11.940
to a drone congregation area or a mating area

00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:14.940
and seeing what goes on up there. The queen comes

00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:18.839
in and a bunch of males, there's a comet of males,

00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:22.240
maybe 50 or 100 that chase after the queen. One

00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:25.259
grabs her, they mate, and then she flies on,

00:23:25.259 --> 00:23:27.700
circles around, comes back, mates again. It's

00:23:27.700 --> 00:23:32.220
just, it seems very clear that she has no selection

00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:36.500
process, no ability to assess. the different

00:23:36.500 --> 00:23:40.240
drones with their behaviors, quality of their

00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.160
offspring or anything like that. It's just bang,

00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:44.480
bang, bang, bang, bang. So much more random.

00:23:44.900 --> 00:23:47.519
And we do know this is probably why the honeybees

00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.559
are, well, you probably know this, they're remarkable

00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:51.480
for their multiple mating. There aren't many

00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:54.339
insects that mate with, where the female will

00:23:54.339 --> 00:23:57.400
mate with 10 to 20 different males and then mix

00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:00.890
up the sperm to get a... to get a blend of offspring,

00:24:01.190 --> 00:24:03.769
but honeybees do that. And only one time in their

00:24:03.769 --> 00:24:07.130
life and then be done. Yeah, that's right. That's

00:24:07.130 --> 00:24:10.190
incredible. Maybe that a queen might go out on

00:24:10.190 --> 00:24:12.930
multiple flights and if she doesn't get, if the

00:24:12.930 --> 00:24:14.829
weather is bad, she has to turn around, she might

00:24:14.829 --> 00:24:18.130
make another flight. But yeah, it is a remarkable

00:24:18.130 --> 00:24:20.710
sight. Once I was lying on the grass underneath

00:24:20.710 --> 00:24:23.009
the drone congregation area, it's in a little

00:24:23.009 --> 00:24:26.869
valley on the Cornell campus and a queen crashed

00:24:26.869 --> 00:24:29.829
on the ground. Somehow she just crashed on the

00:24:29.829 --> 00:24:32.089
ground. But I went over and grabbed her, and

00:24:32.089 --> 00:24:33.990
I was a beginning beekeeper. I thought, oh boy,

00:24:33.990 --> 00:24:36.650
now I got a queen. I can make a split and make

00:24:36.650 --> 00:24:41.210
a new colony. And then I realized, no, if I don't

00:24:41.210 --> 00:24:43.349
let this queen fly home, there's going to be

00:24:43.349 --> 00:24:46.109
a queenless colony. So I let her go. It is amazing

00:24:46.109 --> 00:24:49.390
to see the frenzy of drones chasing a queen and

00:24:49.390 --> 00:24:53.130
sometimes. How would one find a drone congregation

00:24:53.130 --> 00:24:56.329
area? I've never seen one. Yeah, I think the

00:24:56.329 --> 00:24:59.380
only way that people have found them is to walk

00:24:59.380 --> 00:25:02.619
around with a helium or hydrogen balloon on the

00:25:02.619 --> 00:25:06.160
end of a fishing line or fishing pole and with

00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:09.200
a queen and a little cage, queen cage. And just,

00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:11.859
yeah, just, they're not, they're fairly abundant.

00:25:11.980 --> 00:25:15.079
They're not really rare, at least in hilly country.

00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:17.759
I think it's just hit and miss. It's just poking

00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:23.160
around. Did you say a queen in a cage on a helium

00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:27.039
balloon and a fishing pole? Yeah, the fishing

00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:30.000
pole. So you can raise and lower your helium

00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.259
balloon. And you just have the queen hanging

00:25:33.259 --> 00:25:36.579
down below the helium balloon. It's remarkable,

00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:39.859
Eric, just how sharp the boundaries are. These

00:25:39.859 --> 00:25:41.519
drone congregation areas, they're maybe about

00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:44.420
100 yards in diameter. But when you get to the

00:25:44.420 --> 00:25:47.019
edge, the drones just stop coming. I don't know

00:25:47.019 --> 00:25:49.480
what it is. It's a great mystery. What's going

00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:52.240
on there? And it's fun to lie beneath one and

00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:55.220
see the queen come in in a comet form. All right.

00:25:55.220 --> 00:25:58.160
I have so much appreciated all of your time today.

00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:01.019
We're going to wind down here. I did forewarn

00:26:01.019 --> 00:26:03.420
you of one thing, and that is that I wanted to

00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:05.920
hear some kind of a wild and crazy beekeeping

00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:10.480
story from Dr. Seeley, and I loved your comeback.

00:26:10.700 --> 00:26:14.079
You want to tell everybody what you said? My

00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:15.880
memory is not very good, Eric. What did I say?

00:26:16.180 --> 00:26:20.700
It was something like, I am a scientist. I control

00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:23.079
things. There shouldn't be anything wild and

00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:26.500
crazy. Oh, that's it. Oh, yeah, that's right.

00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:29.660
Yeah, that is the nature of my work with the

00:26:29.660 --> 00:26:31.940
bees. It's usually trying to set something up

00:26:31.940 --> 00:26:34.859
so I can get the bees to give me an answer. But

00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:37.700
also personally, you're a beekeeper and you love

00:26:37.700 --> 00:26:41.839
bees. So tell us something fun. Well, one of

00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:45.920
the things that I really enjoy is extracting

00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.819
honey. I just and I remember doing that with

00:26:48.819 --> 00:26:50.960
my daughters when they were little and they were

00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:55.500
just so Well, fascinated that you could see that

00:26:55.500 --> 00:26:57.579
they were used to jars of honey But here there's

00:26:57.579 --> 00:27:00.079
an extractor and there's a gate and you open

00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.220
that up and that just is this gush of honey that

00:27:03.220 --> 00:27:05.900
comes out I think that's not about bee biology.

00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:08.319
That's about beekeeping and it's it's always

00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:10.359
I always thought that was pretty thrilling pretty

00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:14.339
sweet It's definitely part of the joy is seeing

00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:18.819
that Yeah, and maybe dip a little finger in oh,

00:27:18.819 --> 00:27:21.619
yeah, you have to test the quality, don't you?

00:27:22.230 --> 00:27:25.650
Yeah, yeah. Sometimes we get a big goldenrod

00:27:25.650 --> 00:27:28.069
flow and it tastes a little weird. Other times

00:27:28.069 --> 00:27:30.369
we harvest it in the summer and it tastes a little

00:27:30.369 --> 00:27:33.910
better. I guess I would come back and stress

00:27:33.910 --> 00:27:38.170
that deciphering the tremble dance was like a

00:27:38.170 --> 00:27:41.490
very special thing for me because my hero, Carl

00:27:41.490 --> 00:27:44.509
von Frisch, who deciphered the waggle dance,

00:27:45.630 --> 00:27:47.980
he once wrote I think it tells the other bees

00:27:47.980 --> 00:27:50.019
nothing. I've never been able to figure out any

00:27:50.019 --> 00:27:52.299
meaning to it. And he observed it and described

00:27:52.299 --> 00:27:57.119
it back in the 1910s, 1910s. And for 50 years,

00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:59.440
he wondered, why do these bees, why do some of

00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:01.160
the foragers that come back from his feeding

00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:04.119
station, why didn't they do it? Why do they do

00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:07.220
this trembling movement instead of a waggle dance?

00:28:07.259 --> 00:28:10.680
And it was frustrating to him. So I'm very proud

00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:13.359
of being the person that figured out what the

00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:15.559
tremble dance is. And it's basically a call.

00:28:16.259 --> 00:28:18.839
It's when a returning nectar collector comes

00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:21.960
in, can't find a bee that will receive her load

00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:25.059
of nectar, and so she does a trumble dance to

00:28:25.059 --> 00:28:27.440
call for more of the middle -aged bees to work

00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:30.480
as nectar receivers. I'm very proud of that.

00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:35.619
That's a special, shiny discovery in my mind.

00:28:36.420 --> 00:28:39.480
That is really cool. There's so many ways they

00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:43.740
communicate. Yeah. I mean, dancing, trembling,

00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:48.329
pheromones. Shaking. Yeah. Yeah. The mechanical

00:28:48.329 --> 00:28:50.769
ones, like the tremble dancing, the waggle dancing,

00:28:50.910 --> 00:28:53.430
the shaking signals, the piping signals, all

00:28:53.430 --> 00:28:55.569
of those, those are the, we call those mechanical

00:28:55.569 --> 00:28:58.029
and we can see them. We're really good at, we

00:28:58.029 --> 00:29:00.289
humans are really good at detecting those. It's

00:29:00.289 --> 00:29:02.910
the pheromone, the chemical side, that's all

00:29:02.910 --> 00:29:05.089
invisible. That's really hard. And I haven't,

00:29:05.410 --> 00:29:07.890
I haven't, I didn't go down that route at all

00:29:07.890 --> 00:29:09.650
because I knew, even though I studied chemistry,

00:29:09.750 --> 00:29:11.789
I was smart enough from what I knew of chemistry

00:29:11.789 --> 00:29:14.289
that that stuff's hard. And so there's a lot.

00:29:14.430 --> 00:29:16.970
There's a lot of room there for the next generations

00:29:16.970 --> 00:29:21.170
to decipher the clinical signals. All right.

00:29:21.369 --> 00:29:24.029
Last thing, Tom, would you like to impart some

00:29:24.029 --> 00:29:27.349
wisdom on us? Just any last thoughts that could

00:29:27.349 --> 00:29:31.109
help us be better beekeepers? Yeah, I'd say that

00:29:31.109 --> 00:29:33.970
it's like any any craft. The more you know about

00:29:33.970 --> 00:29:37.950
it, the better you'll you'll be in pursuing it.

00:29:38.109 --> 00:29:41.309
A lot of beekeepers are very bookish. It's fascinating.

00:29:41.869 --> 00:29:43.730
If you look at the number of books that have

00:29:43.730 --> 00:29:46.589
been written about bees and beekeeping compared

00:29:46.589 --> 00:29:49.690
to, say, the number of books written about other

00:29:49.690 --> 00:29:52.750
activities, fishing or things like that, it's

00:29:52.750 --> 00:29:55.289
like night and day. So I guess what I would suggest

00:29:55.289 --> 00:29:58.589
is just enjoy reading about the bees. There's

00:29:58.589 --> 00:30:00.910
a lot to learn about them, but there are many

00:30:00.910 --> 00:30:03.970
very good books about them. So that's what I

00:30:03.970 --> 00:30:06.690
would say. On a personal note I do have one last

00:30:06.690 --> 00:30:10.089
question. I can read all the books. I can talk

00:30:10.089 --> 00:30:13.069
to a hundred other beekeepers and as you know

00:30:13.069 --> 00:30:17.210
I'm going to get 500 different answers. Now you're

00:30:17.210 --> 00:30:19.950
a scientist so you're all about the books. Tell

00:30:19.950 --> 00:30:22.269
me if you agree with my philosophy at all and

00:30:22.269 --> 00:30:25.509
that is that it's our job to learn as much as

00:30:25.509 --> 00:30:29.470
we can from as many different places analyze

00:30:29.470 --> 00:30:32.910
the sources, there still is often not one clear

00:30:32.910 --> 00:30:36.289
-cut answer. And so we need some intuition. We

00:30:36.289 --> 00:30:41.170
need to be in tune in some way with our Bs, sometimes

00:30:41.170 --> 00:30:43.930
to know what is going to be best for them, how

00:30:43.930 --> 00:30:47.329
we can best help them. Does a scientist agree

00:30:47.329 --> 00:30:50.829
with me on that one? I do, I do. Because yeah,

00:30:50.950 --> 00:30:53.710
it's the difference between Learning about beekeeping

00:30:53.710 --> 00:30:56.309
versus learning about the bee's biology. The

00:30:56.309 --> 00:30:58.869
bee's biology is what it is. It's either this

00:30:58.869 --> 00:31:01.829
or it's that. With beekeeping, every colony is

00:31:01.829 --> 00:31:04.750
different. Weather conditions change. The colony's

00:31:04.750 --> 00:31:07.029
strength changes. What's available for them to

00:31:07.029 --> 00:31:09.369
forage? That's a much harder one. And that's

00:31:09.369 --> 00:31:11.769
harder to communicate with the books. I'd say

00:31:11.769 --> 00:31:15.089
read the books, but also just work with an experienced

00:31:15.089 --> 00:31:19.490
beekeeper and keep good notes and study your

00:31:19.490 --> 00:31:23.500
colonies. Dr. Tom Seeley, I appreciate you so

00:31:23.500 --> 00:31:26.220
much and all the work that you've done and how

00:31:26.220 --> 00:31:28.579
much I've learned from you over the years from

00:31:28.579 --> 00:31:31.039
your books and things and what a pleasure to

00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:33.200
finally get to meet you and talk with you and

00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:35.640
I hope we can do it again someday. Please keep

00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:38.259
in touch. Thank you Eric and it's really been

00:31:38.259 --> 00:31:41.539
my pleasure and I feel honored to be invited

00:31:41.539 --> 00:31:47.630
and share this information. Thanks for joining

00:31:47.630 --> 00:31:50.690
us on Be Love Beekeeping presented by Man Lake.

00:31:51.130 --> 00:31:53.210
If you like this content I hope you'll share

00:31:53.210 --> 00:31:56.089
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00:31:56.089 --> 00:31:59.450
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00:31:59.450 --> 00:32:02.519
BeLoveBeekeeping .com Also, just a shout out

00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:05.059
to Vita B Health for their support, we appreciate

00:32:05.059 --> 00:32:08.099
them. Vita's Varroa control range of products

00:32:08.099 --> 00:32:11.720
includes Epistan, Epigard, and now Varroxen,

00:32:12.019 --> 00:32:15.599
extended release oxalic acid strips. Thanks guys.

00:32:16.140 --> 00:32:18.519
And remember, if you're not just in it for the

00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:21.039
honey or the money, you're in it for the love.

00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:22.460
See you next week.