Dr. Thomas Seeley On Bee Behavior, Swarm Piping, Bee Lining, More

WEBVTT

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May I have your attention, please? The following

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is not the real Jeff Fox review If you have learned

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the hard way that honeybees don't like internal

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combustion engines like lawnmowers You might

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be a beekeeper If you never ever thought that

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you'd have anything to do with an electric fence

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but you live in bear country? Well, you might

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be a beekeeper. If you don't remember the last

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time you washed your beekeeping suit, you might

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be a beekeeper. Might be stinky too. Welcome,

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welcome to Be Love Beekeeping presented by Man

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Lake. Today's guest is the amazing Dr. Tom Seeley.

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We're going to be all over the place learning

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about everything from worker bee piping in swarms

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to the differences between Langstroth hives and

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honeybee homes in trees to hive insulation, Varroa

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control, and the one we've all got to try bee

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lining, also known as bee hunting. First, a quick

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feel -good story ripped from the headlines of

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the world of honey bees. Meet Maple, a former

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human remains detection dog, is now a beekeeper

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at Michigan State University's Pollinator Performance

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Center. She's a very energetic springer spaniel

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who really likes to work and have a purpose,

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and so this was a wonderful opportunity for her

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to continue working. said Sue Stakehall, Maple's

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owner, canine handler, and trainer. Maple uses

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her sense of smell to detect American foul brood.

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If she detects the bacteria, she sits. And you've

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got to see the pictures because Sue made Maple

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a custom doggy beekeeping suit. That is, it's

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unbelievable. It's awesome. According to Stakehall,

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Dogs can be trained to detect many things like

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explosives, narcotics, people, leaking pipelines,

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even endangered species, she said. People probably

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don't realize how many different types of detection

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dogs are used. and MSU researcher Megan Milbrath

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says their team is developing an instructive

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manual for professionals to train dogs to detect

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harmful honeybee diseases, which saves both bees

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and time. When you've got tens of thousands of

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colonies to go through, we have to look at ways

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that could process a lot of samples quickly,

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Milbrath said. a dog really can quickly move

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through a yard and identify ones that need to

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be inspected. Love it, great story, way to go,

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Maple. All right, let's get to the interview.

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We have an extremely special guest on the show

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today, Dr. Tom Seeley, coming to us from a beautiful

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spot in Maine. How are you today, Tom? I'm happy

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as a clam at high tide, as they say up here.

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And I know you're from Ithaca, New York. Do you

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spend summers in Maine? Yes, I spend about three

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months in Maine. I married a Maine girl. When

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we got married, she told me, Tom, I'm always

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going to need a sea breeze. So I built a little

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house up here and spend a good part of the year.

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Well you were kind enough to send me a picture

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of the view from where you are and it's stunning

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it's beautiful and I'm glad you're enjoying your

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summer. Hey for those that don't know who Dr.

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Sealy is, Tom do you mind if I embarrass you

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a little bit just by giving people some background?

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I know the most important thing for you is the

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fact that you've been beekeeping for 56 years.

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You started when you were in high school And

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that is so cool. And we're going to get into

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that story in a few minutes, but I want to say

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Dr. Seeley has been a professor at Cornell University

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for his career and has studied everything having

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to do with bees and especially, please correct

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me if I'm wrong, bee behavior and ecology. Yes,

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that's exactly right. Both of those things, behavior

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and ecology. And you're the author of six books?

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I think that's right, six books. The first one

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that I read was Honey Bee Democracy. It sounds

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a little crazy to say it changed my life, but

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wow, it just blew open my brain to bees and so

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much more. And by the way, and I think this is

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your newest book, I'm in the middle of it right

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now, Piping Hot Bees and Boisterous Buzz Runners.

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We'll find out a little bit about what that means

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today, but we're not here to pitch books. We're

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here to talk beekeeping and talk honeybees and

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their behavior and I hope that as we get into

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some of the things that may sound at first glance

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like, well what does that have to do with me

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and my beekeeping? The fact that honeybees swarm

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in this particular way and have these behaviors.

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I hope Tom you can help me and our listeners

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come to where we can take those things and internalize

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them into how our behavior is with bees just

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by understanding them better and how we keep

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them. Do you have any particular place you'd

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like to start? If not, I've got a thousand questions

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for you. Well, let's see. You've got more experience

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in organizing these presentations, so I'll follow

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your guidance. Well, I appreciate that. Between

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this and another podcast, I've interviewed quite

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a few hundred people, but I've got to tell you,

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I'm a little nervous because in the beekeeping

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community, Tom Seeley is it. Okay. I hate to

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use hyperbole, but is it possible that you know

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more about bee behavior than anybody else on

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this planet right now? It's possible. Speaking

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of embarrassing you, go ahead and answer. Well,

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I'd say I've made it the focus, the primary focus

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of my 50 -some years of studying the bees. And

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in some sense, it's been a very narrow. There's

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many ways to study honeybees. And I've really

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focused on their behavior and also their ecologies.

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I suppose that does the combination of the many

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years and the focus, particularly on their behavior,

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does make me especially well knowledgeable on

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this topic. But I don't claim by any means to

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say that we fully, I or anybody else, fully understands

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the behavior of worker honeybees. They are the

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most intelligent of all the insects and they've

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got a lot of mysteries still. Well, that's one

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of the things I love about them is we'd never

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fully figure it out. The bees and things like

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Varroa and stuff that make beekeeping tough.

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We never fully have all the answers, I don't

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believe. Yeah, I like to draw the analogy between

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human beings and honeybees. In both cases, we

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are the most complex behaviorally and cognitively

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of the primates, and the honeybees are the most

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complex behaviorally and cognitively of the insects.

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And in both cases, it's because we live in very

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complex societies. It's social living, we know.

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that really builds complex brains. And so that's,

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that's a real parallel between humans and honeybees.

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So on that topic, since you just brought it up,

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I want to read something that you've got posted

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on Cornell's website. I was going to save this

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for later because it sounds very scientific,

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but I absolutely love this. Here we go. Remarkably,

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there are intriguing similarities between how

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the bees in a swarm and the neurons in a brain

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are organized so that even though each unit,

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B or neuron, has limited information and limited

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intelligence, the group as a whole makes first

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-rate collective decisions. For example, in both

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systems the process of making a choice consists

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of a competition between the options to accumulate

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support, B visits or neuron firings, Also in

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both systems the winner of the competition is

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determined by which option first accumulates

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a critical level or quorum of support. Consistencies

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like these indicate that there are general principles

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of organization for building groups that are

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smarter than the smartest individuals in them.

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I totally get that and I think it is so cool

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just like In a group of human beings, it takes

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a hundred different high -tech companies before

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giant leaps in computer technology happen, for

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example, and hundreds of people at each of those

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places to where we now have inventions that one

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person couldn't come up with every part of. And

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I think that's what we're talking about. in the

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consensus of bee colonies is the whole collective

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is so much smarter than one individual bee. Can

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you please explain that better than I just did?

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Well, let's just use an example. I think it's

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the colony as a whole. Let's look at its foraging

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operation. It's spreading its foragers far and

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wide and in many different directions to gather

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the food and the water and the resin that it

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needs. And no one bee can go out and collect

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the information about all the foraging opportunities

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across the countryside. So just right at the

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level of getting the information about the problem,

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which we would call the sensory aspect of it,

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that's dispersed among all of the foragers, so

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thousands and thousands of bees. And then they

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have to somehow have a way to use all that information

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that's been collected, and they do it. in ways

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where the bees come back and they carefully advertise

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what they found in terms of its direction and

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distance and its desirability. And they adjust

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the announcement of the dance announcement's

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strength according to the desirability. So the

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best things get advertised the most strongly.

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And so that gives a bias to sending more bees

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to those locations than to poorer locations.

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It's a very Very sensible, but at the same time,

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wonderful system of organizing, deploying the

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foragers in a colony. Something similar happens

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in a swarm, but the rules are a little bit different.

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And you somehow figured out the rules. That's

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always the challenge. You see, let's go to a

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swarm because it's a little simpler. It's easier

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to envision, I think. You see this mass of bees

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hanging from a tree branch. And if you look closely,

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you'll see Bees these would be the Nessite scouts

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coming back landing on the surface of the swarm

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and doing waggle dances and Some of the waggle

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as the bees do their waggle dance They walk upward

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and others walk sideways and others walk downward

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and some are very excited and some are less excited

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and somehow out of all of that and that's a big

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body of information that's being collected and

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Processed there on the surface of the swarm That's

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a good example of the collectiveness of it. And

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then it's basically a race. The best site gets

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advertised the most strongly. The buildup at

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that site happens the most rapidly. And it's

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the first site to get enough popularity for the

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bees to get nest site scouts to sense, oh, this

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site is a really good one. Let's cut. We don't

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need to talk anymore. We've found a really good

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site. Let's go back and get things organized

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to make the move to this new home. So for beekeepers

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that like to catch swarms, how can they use that

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information that you just gave us? That's a really

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valuable question. There's a couple of things

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a beekeeper can use. One is if they see bees

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performing waggle dances that are where the bee

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as it walks forward and is waggling her body,

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if they're pointing in all sorts of different

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directions, straight up or straight down, left

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or right, That would tell the beekeeper that

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the nest -site scouts are not close to finishing

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the decision -making. And so you don't have to

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really rush. But there's another signal in there,

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Eric, that is even more valuable for a beekeeper.

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It's an acoustical signal called piping. And

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it's the sound that the nest -site scouts make

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when they sense that they're ready to The decision

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has been reached, and they need to go around

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and tell the other bees, the non -scouts bees

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in the swarm, to warm up their flight muscles

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so they can all launch into flight almost within

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simultaneously. And that sounds like this. So

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if you're a beekeeper and you put your ear up

00:13:39.649 --> 00:13:42.049
next to a swarm and you hear that sound, you

00:13:42.049 --> 00:13:45.309
know that that swarm's preparing to take off.

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And it will probably take off within one to five

00:13:49.019 --> 00:13:52.340
or six minutes. So if you hear that scramble

00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:54.879
and get a hive and shake those bees into your

00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:59.200
hive. Now I've also heard that sound in a hive.

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Can you explain that? If you hear it in a hive,

00:14:04.340 --> 00:14:06.200
there's queen piping and then there's worker

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piping. They're a little hard to tell apart.

00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:11.220
You might be hearing queen piping and that would

00:14:11.220 --> 00:14:13.679
be piping between the different virgin queens

00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.480
kind of advertising themselves or it could be

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worker piping. if the colony is preparing to

00:14:19.289 --> 00:14:22.389
swarm, because the worker bees make this warm

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-up or piping signal to get everybody in the

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hive ready to have their flight muscles warm

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enough to fly out to form the swarm. So if you

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hear that, it's either the queens are fighting

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or the workers are getting ready to swarm. The

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first time I heard it, I think it was the queens,

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that former thing that you discussed, because

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they weren't ready to swarm. Tell us about how

00:14:45.710 --> 00:14:49.039
you got into beekeeping. Because this show is

00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:52.820
all about the love of bees, and to spend your

00:14:52.820 --> 00:14:55.419
whole career with this, you must have some love.

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But where did it start? It started when I was

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a boy, I think I was about 10 years old, and

00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:05.679
I watched a swarm of bees move into a black walnut

00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:08.299
tree near my parents' house. Fortunately, it

00:15:08.299 --> 00:15:11.620
was about a big old black walnut tree, but with

00:15:11.620 --> 00:15:14.580
many... big, big tree, but the bees just by chance

00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:17.240
moved into the bottom most limb. They were moving

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in. I was initially scared of the bees, but as

00:15:21.500 --> 00:15:25.740
I got a little more braver or more experienced

00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:27.580
in watching the bees, I realized I could bring

00:15:27.580 --> 00:15:31.860
up my father's stepladder and set it up right

00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:33.720
next to the nest entrance. And I didn't have

00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.279
a bee veil or anything, but I could sit there

00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:38.399
quietly and just watch the bees. I think that's

00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:41.549
what And it was a huge mystery, as I'm sure you

00:15:41.549 --> 00:15:43.809
can see. You see bees coming and going from a

00:15:43.809 --> 00:15:46.210
knot hole, and you wonder, what's going on inside

00:15:46.210 --> 00:15:48.769
there? That really, I think, was the thing that

00:15:48.769 --> 00:15:52.470
got me going, seeing the bees firsthand and up

00:15:52.470 --> 00:15:55.389
close and wondering what on earth is going on

00:15:55.389 --> 00:15:58.929
inside that tree hollow. I think that says a

00:15:58.929 --> 00:16:03.049
lot about you, too, frankly, because I can imagine

00:16:03.049 --> 00:16:07.220
a bunch of 10 -year -old boys Also taking baseball

00:16:07.220 --> 00:16:09.580
bats to that and seeing who dared hit it and

00:16:09.580 --> 00:16:12.200
run the fastest. So you must have really been

00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.440
a deep thinker. I don't know if I thought was

00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:17.899
thinking deeply. I like nature. We lived out

00:16:17.899 --> 00:16:20.379
in the country, saw a lot of neat things in the

00:16:20.379 --> 00:16:23.120
natural world. And this was one that was particularly

00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:25.259
mysterious because there was a lot of action,

00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:27.879
but it was out of sight. We'll call it a deep

00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:31.320
curiosity. How's that? Yeah, that's right. That's

00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:33.840
it. Exactly. And that was in the Ithaca, New

00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:37.860
York area. Yeah, it's in the little, a little

00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:40.580
valley just outside of Ithaca called Ellis Hollow.

00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:43.519
It's where I still live. In fact, it didn't disperse

00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:46.220
well. A few years ago we went through Ithaca

00:16:46.220 --> 00:16:51.980
and talk about a beautiful area. Wow. Green and

00:16:51.980 --> 00:16:54.740
you've got the finger lakes there and yeah, it's

00:16:54.740 --> 00:16:58.539
just beautiful. Yeah. It's remarkable that it

00:16:58.539 --> 00:17:01.419
has this super duper university in the middle

00:17:01.419 --> 00:17:04.480
of nowhere. It's because the founder. Ezra Cornell,

00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:08.039
who made a fortune on telegraph, setting up telegraph

00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:12.039
systems. That's where he owned land. And he was

00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:15.259
a good guy. He said, I got all this money. I

00:17:15.259 --> 00:17:18.720
want to do something good with it. And I'm going

00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:21.380
to start a university. And he had the brains

00:17:21.380 --> 00:17:23.779
to realize he didn't know how to do it, but he

00:17:23.779 --> 00:17:27.039
hired a very smart guy. I forget from where he

00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:29.720
came from. The two of them together set up this

00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:33.240
very remarkable university in the middle of just

00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:35.440
a tiny little city. And you spent your whole

00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:39.039
career there. Yeah, I spent a few years. My first

00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.799
job was teaching in New Haven, Connecticut at

00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:45.599
Yale University. It's where I had a job offer

00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:48.400
was given to me. It was a rundown city at the

00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:50.900
time. Now it's rejuvenated, but it was a difficult

00:17:50.900 --> 00:17:53.079
place to live at the time. Dangerous, in fact.

00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:56.400
I once got held up at gunpoint. So that made

00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:59.400
me think, I don't think I want to stay here too,

00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:02.829
too long. Quick break here to thank our presenting

00:18:02.829 --> 00:18:05.589
sponsor, Man Lake. Whether you're a beekeeper

00:18:05.589 --> 00:18:08.869
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00:18:08.869 --> 00:18:11.970
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00:18:12.450 --> 00:18:16.049
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00:18:16.049 --> 00:18:18.630
pollinator -friendly plants that thrive in your

00:18:18.630 --> 00:18:21.769
area, and its plant identification feature is

00:18:21.769 --> 00:18:24.589
super helpful and fun. When I see a plant covered

00:18:24.589 --> 00:18:27.690
in bees, I fire up the app, find out what it

00:18:27.690 --> 00:18:30.289
is, then plant them in my yard. If you haven't

00:18:30.289 --> 00:18:32.450
already downloaded the Man Lake app, give it

00:18:32.450 --> 00:18:35.329
a try today. Oh, and did I mention it's free?

00:18:36.109 --> 00:18:38.230
And if you're shopping for beekeeping supplies,

00:18:38.609 --> 00:18:41.829
don't forget your discount code MLBlove10. It's

00:18:41.829 --> 00:18:45.269
in the show notes for $10 off your first $100

00:18:45.269 --> 00:18:48.309
purchase. All right, let's switch gears for a

00:18:48.309 --> 00:18:51.069
minute. Let's talk about a hobby that I have

00:18:51.069 --> 00:18:55.170
not taken up yet called bee lining or bee hunting.

00:18:56.230 --> 00:18:59.420
For those that haven't heard about this. Tell

00:18:59.420 --> 00:19:03.640
us what in the world this is. Bee lining is an

00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.240
old craft that goes back hundreds of years, whereby

00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:10.420
before people had bees and hives, before Langstroth

00:19:10.420 --> 00:19:14.920
invented a hive, the way people got honey was

00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:20.000
to line bees, to follow bees that you see on

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:23.700
flowers. Follow them back their flight lines

00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:26.680
home to their hive to their usually in a tree

00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.339
and then collect the nest and steal the honey

00:19:29.339 --> 00:19:32.000
So bee lining is the process of following the

00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.200
bees from where you first see them on flowers

00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:38.240
Back to their home and it's it's a craft. It's

00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:42.079
a skill and it's another great way to enjoy To

00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:44.460
have fun with honeybees because when you'd be

00:19:44.460 --> 00:19:46.500
line, you're just you're feeding bees sugar water

00:19:46.500 --> 00:19:49.180
and they're happy and you get to watch how they

00:19:49.180 --> 00:19:51.680
load up and fly away and there's no danger of

00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:53.940
being stung, anything like that. I'd like to

00:19:53.940 --> 00:19:55.759
say it takes you to places you wouldn't otherwise

00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.480
go. Can you tell me about the process? You just

00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:02.019
mentioned sugar water. How do you do this? Do

00:20:02.019 --> 00:20:03.900
you just set up in the forest someplace? What

00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:07.619
do you do? You start by trapping bees in a little

00:20:07.619 --> 00:20:11.900
box and it could be just a cardboard box or whatever.

00:20:12.339 --> 00:20:15.759
You go out to find bees on flowers. You trap

00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.299
them in a box. It's called a bee box if you want

00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:21.140
to have a special one. And once the bees are

00:20:21.140 --> 00:20:24.680
in there, you put a comb filled with sugar water

00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:28.140
in your little box. The bee box, a bee hunter's

00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:30.599
box, has two chambers. You capture bees in the

00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.220
box. You lure them to the rear chamber. That

00:20:33.220 --> 00:20:35.039
allows you to put food in the front chamber.

00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.240
And then you let the bees move from the rear

00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.200
chamber to the front chamber. They walk onto

00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:42.859
your comb that's filled with thick sugar syrup.

00:20:42.980 --> 00:20:45.700
They think they've found heaven. You leave the

00:20:45.700 --> 00:20:47.660
box closed for a few minutes. You'll open it

00:20:47.660 --> 00:20:50.079
up. They come out. They're usually not freaked

00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:53.579
out. They circle around. They fly home. And then

00:20:53.579 --> 00:20:55.660
unless there's a honey flow on, they will come

00:20:55.660 --> 00:20:57.880
back. And then once you've got a traffic of bees

00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:01.180
between their home and your bee box, you can

00:21:01.180 --> 00:21:03.180
then see the direction they're flying home. And

00:21:03.180 --> 00:21:06.319
you can move your box step by step, maybe once

00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:10.579
every hour or so, another 100 yards or more if

00:21:10.579 --> 00:21:13.519
it's open territory. back down their flight line

00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:18.000
and bit by bit you work your way back to their

00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.160
home. Depending on where you are, it might be

00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:22.440
in somebody's apiary or it might be a bee tree

00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:25.240
in somebody's barn, something like that. So how

00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:28.640
long does that usually take? You mentioned moving

00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:31.279
it every hour. Is this a whole day, multiple

00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:34.660
day? Yeah, that's an important question. I'm

00:21:34.660 --> 00:21:36.980
just trying to pull up the numbers. I think the

00:21:36.980 --> 00:21:41.519
shortest bee hunt I ever did was an hour because

00:21:42.250 --> 00:21:47.329
I started the bee line unknowingly, only about

00:21:47.329 --> 00:21:49.650
100 yards from their home. The longest one, I

00:21:49.650 --> 00:21:52.089
think, took two years. I wasn't working at it

00:21:52.089 --> 00:21:56.049
steadily, of course. Two years? Oh my gosh. Well,

00:21:56.069 --> 00:21:58.289
in the sense that I couldn't find it the first

00:21:58.289 --> 00:22:02.049
year, and so I went back and tried again and

00:22:02.049 --> 00:22:05.490
found it in the second year. The bees were...

00:22:05.259 --> 00:22:08.880
nesting very high up in a hemlock tree. So it

00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:11.619
took a couple of tries, basically. But on average,

00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:13.880
I think I've got some words in that book that

00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:19.339
it usually takes me maybe five hours, something

00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:22.420
like that. So not a full day, but a good full

00:22:22.420 --> 00:22:25.140
morning and part of an afternoon. As I say, the

00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:28.200
beauty of it is it takes you to places you wouldn't

00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:31.960
otherwise go to. And there's a kind of an exhilaration

00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:36.029
or a sense of exuberance you feel when you finally

00:22:36.029 --> 00:22:39.730
find the bees home. Because if it's in a forested

00:22:39.730 --> 00:22:41.869
setting, you know, there's thousands of trees

00:22:41.869 --> 00:22:43.670
out there, but there's only one that the bees

00:22:43.670 --> 00:22:46.089
are living in. And when you work your way back

00:22:46.089 --> 00:22:48.049
to it and you find it and you see the bees going

00:22:48.049 --> 00:22:49.789
in and out of a knothole or crack in that tree,

00:22:49.829 --> 00:22:52.690
you realize, I did it! I did it! This is a real

00:22:52.690 --> 00:22:55.789
accomplishment. That, for the modern bee hunter,

00:22:55.930 --> 00:22:57.970
is not the honey at the end of the honey. It's

00:22:57.970 --> 00:23:01.009
the discovery of the bees. But I knew some old

00:23:01.009 --> 00:23:04.250
timers who didn't have much money. That's how

00:23:04.250 --> 00:23:05.970
they would get their sweetener. They would find

00:23:05.970 --> 00:23:08.910
a bee tree. They wouldn't kill the, cut it down

00:23:08.910 --> 00:23:11.130
and they would usually chop it open and take

00:23:11.130 --> 00:23:13.470
out some of the honeycombs, put them in a pot

00:23:13.470 --> 00:23:15.970
and bring it home. That's another approach to

00:23:15.970 --> 00:23:19.150
the whole bee hunting endeavor. That sounds like

00:23:19.150 --> 00:23:22.390
it takes so much patience. It does take patience,

00:23:22.509 --> 00:23:24.789
but sometimes patience is easy to have. If you're

00:23:24.789 --> 00:23:27.029
out in nature, you listen to what the birds are

00:23:27.029 --> 00:23:29.430
calling. You look at the, you study the trees

00:23:29.430 --> 00:23:32.039
around you. You got these neat little bees coming

00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:34.359
and going, and they become individuals because

00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:37.480
you want to figure out how long it takes the

00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:40.299
bee to go home. and come back, you have to label

00:23:40.299 --> 00:23:43.180
the bees with little dots of paint, and you get

00:23:43.180 --> 00:23:45.980
to really know them as individuals. Some work

00:23:45.980 --> 00:23:48.680
rapidly and efficiently, and some poke around.

00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:51.460
If you're an enthusiast, one would find it very

00:23:51.460 --> 00:23:54.140
interesting. And I think one of the coolest things

00:23:54.140 --> 00:23:56.299
about it, Eric, as maybe I've mentioned this,

00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:58.700
maybe I'm repeating myself, you're now looking

00:23:58.700 --> 00:24:02.039
at the behaviors of individual worker bees. You're

00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:04.819
not confronted with hundreds of worker bees walking

00:24:04.819 --> 00:24:07.059
around on a comb in front of you. you really

00:24:07.059 --> 00:24:10.160
get to know them as individuals. Yeah and when

00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.740
you're looking at hundreds it's hard to look

00:24:12.740 --> 00:24:15.339
at them as individuals. Right. It's hard to keep

00:24:15.339 --> 00:24:18.859
track of just one. Exactly. I try to do that

00:24:18.859 --> 00:24:21.700
sometimes just observing them outside a hive

00:24:21.700 --> 00:24:25.960
like I want to watch just one it's circling around

00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:30.059
is it coming is it going and it can be very distracting

00:24:30.059 --> 00:24:32.039
when there's a hundred of them doing that it's

00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:35.559
hard to keep your eye on one. So are you following

00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:38.240
this bee lining? You're starting with one bee.

00:24:38.299 --> 00:24:41.960
Does it come back with some of her friends? Yeah,

00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:44.519
unless there's a honey flow on, you are usually

00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:47.019
the best food source around if you're offering

00:24:47.019 --> 00:24:51.140
honey in a comb. And so yeah, she will go home,

00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.740
maybe not on her first trip home, but sometimes

00:24:53.740 --> 00:24:56.420
she'll do a dance and advertise your feeder,

00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:59.720
your comb. Other bees start showing up, unmarked

00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:01.660
bees. So, you know, those are novices that she's

00:25:01.660 --> 00:25:05.019
brought to the site. And then you can label them.

00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:08.119
As I say, once you've got a nice little good

00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:11.299
traffic of bees flying between your feeding station

00:25:11.299 --> 00:25:13.160
and their home, then you can move the feeding

00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:18.039
station closer in stages, closer and closer to

00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:20.940
their home. And that's the process of bee lining.

00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:24.640
Okay. Let's shift gears a little bit because

00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:29.559
I'm picturing bees inside of a tree. Can you

00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:33.259
give us an idea of How different is it for bees

00:25:33.259 --> 00:25:36.779
living in a tree versus these man -made boxes

00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:40.359
that we use? I mean, it's obviously a different

00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:43.140
place, but does it affect their behavior also?

00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:46.240
Yes, I think it does. You know, the Langstroth

00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:49.059
hive is a brilliant invention from the perspective

00:25:49.059 --> 00:25:52.660
of enabling humans to manage in the colonies

00:25:52.660 --> 00:25:56.140
of bees, but it was designed not with a lot of

00:25:56.140 --> 00:26:00.299
consideration of the bees. What's ideal for the

00:26:00.299 --> 00:26:03.960
bees? For example, in nature, when the bees choose

00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:07.079
a home site, they choose sites that are high

00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:09.200
off the ground, so they're safe. They're not

00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:12.460
likely to be detected by bears. They also choose

00:26:12.460 --> 00:26:15.819
sites that are relatively small, cavities that

00:26:15.819 --> 00:26:19.359
are small, only the size of one deep 10 -frame

00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:22.440
hive body, for example. That's typical in a tree

00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:26.140
cavity. And that means that they don't produce

00:26:26.140 --> 00:26:29.210
huge colonies, but they They have enough space

00:26:29.210 --> 00:26:33.049
to make a colony, to build up, get crowded, produce

00:26:33.049 --> 00:26:36.589
a swarm, store up honey. They still have enough

00:26:36.589 --> 00:26:39.789
space to store up about 40 pounds of honey. And

00:26:39.789 --> 00:26:43.450
as anybody knows, who's got lifted, hefted a

00:26:43.450 --> 00:26:46.690
full 10 -frame honey super. The other thing that's

00:26:46.690 --> 00:26:49.029
really strikingly different is the insulation

00:26:49.029 --> 00:26:52.150
of the nest. In the wild, I've dissected about

00:26:52.150 --> 00:26:55.549
20 bee trees. natural nests. And I think the

00:26:55.549 --> 00:26:58.210
average wall thickness, wood wall thickness was

00:26:58.210 --> 00:27:00.690
about, I can't remember, was four inches or six

00:27:00.690 --> 00:27:04.650
inches, but it much better insulation. So small

00:27:04.650 --> 00:27:07.690
entrance, smallish cavity, really good insulation

00:27:07.690 --> 00:27:11.170
and high off the ground, so less conspicuous

00:27:11.170 --> 00:27:14.529
to predators. So how does that affect their life

00:27:14.529 --> 00:27:17.490
cycle and just their overall behavior? Well,

00:27:17.730 --> 00:27:20.549
with life cycle, the main thing is that Well,

00:27:20.569 --> 00:27:22.569
one of the two main things that I can think of

00:27:22.569 --> 00:27:25.390
at this point is one is it means that colonies

00:27:25.390 --> 00:27:28.829
are gauged or set themselves up for swarming.

00:27:29.490 --> 00:27:32.269
As we all know, so much of our beekeeping management

00:27:32.269 --> 00:27:36.029
is swarm prevention. So we give colonies extra

00:27:36.029 --> 00:27:39.490
space. We also give them extra space for storing

00:27:39.490 --> 00:27:42.430
honey, more honey than they will need. So the

00:27:42.430 --> 00:27:46.450
bees in the wild are small. They're apt to swarm.

00:27:46.509 --> 00:27:48.690
They only store up as much honey as they need.

00:27:49.019 --> 00:27:50.980
And the other thing is one that I've mentioned

00:27:50.980 --> 00:27:54.140
is the safety of being high off the ground and

00:27:54.140 --> 00:27:56.960
in an inconspicuous nest entrance, for example.

00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:00.000
And then one last thing is a couple more, actually.

00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:04.119
Within the nest, they have They will build as

00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:06.160
much drone comb as they want, which is usually

00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:09.539
about 15 % of their comb area is devoted to drone

00:28:09.539 --> 00:28:12.559
comb. So they will produce, they'll have greater

00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:14.859
reproductive genetic success because they're

00:28:14.859 --> 00:28:18.279
rearing more drones in a wild colonies nest than

00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:21.019
in a managed colonies nest. The other one, maybe

00:28:21.019 --> 00:28:23.420
I'm repeating myself, is the very good insulation

00:28:23.420 --> 00:28:27.500
of a wild colonies nest. So how would you suggest

00:28:27.500 --> 00:28:31.099
hobby or even commercial beekeepers take that

00:28:31.099 --> 00:28:34.400
information? and use it in their beekeeping.

00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:36.980
Now I realize the whole idea of the Langstroth

00:28:36.980 --> 00:28:41.160
hive is, yes, they do pretty well in it, but

00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.200
it's really convenient for us for getting that

00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:48.519
honey out, right? So, I mean, for example, it's

00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:51.839
not practical for us to have a four or six inch

00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:56.259
thick walls on a bee box, you know, weigh a couple

00:28:56.259 --> 00:28:59.900
hundred pounds more than it already does. So

00:28:59.900 --> 00:29:02.900
how do we use that information? Well, if you're

00:29:02.900 --> 00:29:05.799
a beekeeper in a northern climate, I think one

00:29:05.799 --> 00:29:07.759
thing you want to do is, or a cold climate, I

00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:10.960
should say, is to add insulation. As you said,

00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:13.720
it doesn't make sense to achieve that insulation

00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:17.339
by adding solid wood, but you can get very good

00:29:17.339 --> 00:29:20.500
foam insulation and put it on the outside of

00:29:20.500 --> 00:29:23.240
a hive, maybe even just for the winter. I've

00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:25.460
modified my hives. I use eight -frame hives,

00:29:25.460 --> 00:29:28.380
and I've put two inches of foam insulation on

00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:30.450
all the sides, and then I've... covered that

00:29:30.450 --> 00:29:32.490
over, that insulation over with quarter inch

00:29:32.490 --> 00:29:35.730
plywood. So it makes the hive a little bulkier

00:29:35.730 --> 00:29:38.269
than it would have without the insulation. But

00:29:38.269 --> 00:29:40.529
I live in a cold climate and the bees, they don't

00:29:40.529 --> 00:29:43.269
even go into a tight cluster in the winter inside

00:29:43.269 --> 00:29:45.309
that hive because there it stays warm enough

00:29:45.309 --> 00:29:47.690
in there. That's one way to do it is to just

00:29:47.690 --> 00:29:50.730
add the blue foam insulation that is used in

00:29:50.730 --> 00:29:53.109
house construction on the outside walls, put

00:29:53.109 --> 00:29:55.589
on an inch or two inches of it and then cover

00:29:55.589 --> 00:29:59.210
it with wood so it's protected. What about ventilation?

00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:03.039
Do we seal that thing up pretty tight or do they

00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:05.960
need ventilation on the bottom and the top both?

00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:08.660
This has been a controversy on this show. I've

00:30:08.660 --> 00:30:11.180
had people on talk about really different theories

00:30:11.180 --> 00:30:15.059
on this. My answer is going to again come. Eric

00:30:15.059 --> 00:30:17.259
from the bees. The bees tell me they don't want

00:30:17.259 --> 00:30:19.559
a top entrance because they go out of their way

00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:22.259
to seal up as everybody beekeeper in the northern

00:30:22.259 --> 00:30:25.279
cold climates knows. They seal up all those cracks

00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.599
on the with the inner cover and the outer cover.

00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:30.819
They don't they don't want a top entrance. And

00:30:30.819 --> 00:30:34.339
I'll tell you and I learned why they don't. It's

00:30:34.339 --> 00:30:37.200
because in the winter, at least in a cold climate

00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:40.000
setting where they can't go outside to get water.

00:30:40.829 --> 00:30:44.650
They rely on some condensation inside the hive

00:30:44.650 --> 00:30:47.390
for their winter water need. And I know that

00:30:47.390 --> 00:30:50.869
because in my office at Cornell, I keep an observation

00:30:50.869 --> 00:30:53.329
hive. And I like to keep it year round, keep

00:30:53.329 --> 00:30:55.369
the colony in there year round. And what I've

00:30:55.369 --> 00:30:57.950
learned in watching in the winter, because this

00:30:57.950 --> 00:31:00.630
hive is in a heated room, there's no condensation

00:31:00.630 --> 00:31:03.230
inside that hive. And those bees get wicked thirsty.

00:31:03.890 --> 00:31:06.589
And I know that because they, until I got smart

00:31:06.589 --> 00:31:08.960
enough to realize that I wasn't giving them kind

00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:10.940
of that they're having a problem. They would

00:31:10.940 --> 00:31:13.940
go out on the first any warm day in the winter,

00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:17.380
sunny day. And then when there was snow melting,

00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:20.200
they'd go out on the dry, the black asphalt and

00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:22.920
drink, drink, drink water. Then the most vigorous

00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.039
waggle dances I've ever seen, ever, ever seen

00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:29.460
were performed by winter water collectors. They

00:31:29.460 --> 00:31:31.779
were so thirsty and they really wanted to get

00:31:31.779 --> 00:31:33.819
make sure everybody got the word that the water

00:31:33.819 --> 00:31:36.119
was available. I guess that's a long answer.

00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:38.220
I respect the bees. They don't want it. They

00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:40.339
don't want air leaking out the top of their hive.

00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:42.920
They seal the top of their hive. If you can let

00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:45.720
them have some water, don't worry about the condensation.

00:31:45.940 --> 00:31:48.759
They want the condensation is useful to the bees,

00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:50.819
at least in cold climates. That's their winter

00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:54.539
water source. So we want some. We don't want

00:31:54.539 --> 00:31:57.200
so much that it's dripping on them. Well, the

00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:59.839
cluster where it's where the bees are and the

00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:01.740
cluster is, there's enough warmth that there's

00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:03.980
not condensation right above the cluster. So

00:32:03.980 --> 00:32:06.779
it's not dripping on the bees. And if it drips

00:32:06.779 --> 00:32:09.660
on the combs around the bees, no big deal. That

00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:13.819
makes the water that they need for the winter

00:32:13.819 --> 00:32:15.980
more accessible. Because you have to always keep

00:32:15.980 --> 00:32:17.920
in mind, what are these poor bees eating all

00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:23.900
winter? They're eating an 84%, 82 % sugar solution.

00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:27.180
There's almost no water in honey. And they need

00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:30.779
water, just as we need water. And so some condensation

00:32:30.779 --> 00:32:34.519
inside a hive may not look very homey or comfortable.

00:32:34.779 --> 00:32:37.819
or appealing to a human being, but at least in

00:32:37.819 --> 00:32:40.859
the cold climates where I live, it's very important

00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:43.640
to the bees. As I say, it's their winter water

00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:46.539
source. I saw that when I intentionally did an

00:32:46.539 --> 00:32:48.539
experiment where I deprived them of that and

00:32:48.539 --> 00:32:51.559
how desperate they got for water when they didn't

00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:54.859
have it in their hive. You mentioned dissecting

00:32:54.859 --> 00:32:57.859
trees or trees with bees in them. How do you

00:32:57.859 --> 00:33:00.700
do that? Do you just cut it down and chop it

00:33:00.700 --> 00:33:03.329
open or what? This is sort of one of the dark

00:33:03.329 --> 00:33:06.329
sides of my research program. Early on in my

00:33:06.329 --> 00:33:09.430
studies of investigating how bees live in nature,

00:33:10.509 --> 00:33:15.410
a key early step was to go out, find bee trees,

00:33:15.710 --> 00:33:19.289
cut them down. And here it really gets nasty.

00:33:20.049 --> 00:33:23.710
I would put cyanide gas in the tree, go up to

00:33:23.710 --> 00:33:25.450
the tree early in the morning before it was going

00:33:25.450 --> 00:33:27.789
to be cut down. I put in this material called

00:33:27.789 --> 00:33:31.599
cyanogas in there. and stuff a rag in the entrance.

00:33:31.940 --> 00:33:34.160
And I couldn't cut the tree down and collect

00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:36.940
it and do all that with the bees angry at me.

00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:39.400
So I'd come back later in a few hours, come with

00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:41.640
a chainsaw, cut it down, figure out what section

00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:45.319
of the tree actually was housing the bees, cut

00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:48.059
that out of the big tree, bring it back to the

00:33:48.059 --> 00:33:50.799
lab, split it open, and dissect the nest. And

00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:52.700
it was very revealing. That's how I learned that

00:33:52.700 --> 00:33:57.480
in nature, bees devote about 15 % of their comb

00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:02.109
area. to drone call. It also became clear how

00:34:02.109 --> 00:34:06.109
important propolis is. Every surface inside those

00:34:06.109 --> 00:34:09.489
tree cavity nests has a thick coating of propolis.

00:34:10.449 --> 00:34:14.710
They very carefully make little passageways.

00:34:15.110 --> 00:34:18.130
They build their combs wall to wall inside that

00:34:18.130 --> 00:34:21.949
cavity, unlike in a hive, but they make little

00:34:21.949 --> 00:34:25.190
galleries, little openings on the ends where

00:34:25.190 --> 00:34:27.809
the combs hit the walls. They leave openings

00:34:27.809 --> 00:34:30.309
so they can get around from one side of the comb

00:34:30.309 --> 00:34:33.510
to the next side. And the entrance is usually

00:34:33.510 --> 00:34:35.730
at the bottom of the cavity so that the heat

00:34:35.730 --> 00:34:38.590
isn't going out the top. Please don't feel guilty.

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:42.280
for having to do that. You called it the dark

00:34:42.280 --> 00:34:45.079
side and things like that. And science needs

00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:48.239
to do that sometimes or dissect an animal or

00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:50.239
something. If I wanted to see what the nests

00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:53.099
were, I had to get the tree down. And if I got

00:34:53.099 --> 00:34:55.679
the tree down, there's going to be a bajillion,

00:34:55.780 --> 00:34:57.300
I mean, well, there's going to be thousands of

00:34:57.300 --> 00:35:00.019
stinging insects. And I just, I couldn't do those.

00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:02.260
Yeah, that wouldn't have worked. And I wanted

00:35:02.260 --> 00:35:04.260
to know what the intact colony was. I wanted

00:35:04.260 --> 00:35:06.809
to know. how many workers there were, how many

00:35:06.809 --> 00:35:08.809
drones there were, that sort of thing, how much

00:35:08.809 --> 00:35:11.590
brood there was. That was a limited scientific

00:35:11.590 --> 00:35:14.269
thing. The rest of us aren't going to go out

00:35:14.269 --> 00:35:16.690
and do that kind of thing. We don't need to.

00:35:16.690 --> 00:35:19.730
We can learn from your science and appreciate

00:35:19.730 --> 00:35:25.150
it. I know you are specifically, what's the term

00:35:25.150 --> 00:35:27.869
I'm looking for? Your focus has been more the

00:35:27.869 --> 00:35:31.050
behavior of bees, but as far as the physical

00:35:31.050 --> 00:35:34.739
aspect, Do you have any advice for us on Varroa

00:35:34.739 --> 00:35:38.000
control and maybe relating it to how bees do

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.039
it in a natural environment versus in our apiary

00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:44.280
would give us some direction? Yeah, this is a

00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.679
really tricky topic, Eric, because I'll tell

00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:49.539
you what I do, but it's not going to work for

00:35:49.539 --> 00:35:51.900
most people. I guess about, I can't remember

00:35:51.900 --> 00:35:53.719
how many years ago, I just went cold turkey and

00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:56.880
I stopped treating and most of the colonies died

00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:59.460
off, but the ones that didn't. I made splits

00:35:59.460 --> 00:36:01.599
from those. Since then, I've not needed to treat

00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:06.280
for Varroa. I was inspired by this by a beekeeper

00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:10.079
up in Vermont, Kirk Webster, who's a commercial

00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:12.099
beekeeper. He runs several hundred colonies,

00:36:12.139 --> 00:36:14.280
and he did the same thing, but long before I

00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:17.380
did. There are colonies that are resistant to

00:36:17.380 --> 00:36:20.219
Varroa, and what they do, the workers in these

00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:22.579
colonies, they rip apart the Varroa. If they

00:36:22.579 --> 00:36:24.960
get a Varroa, they'll pull the legs off, they'll

00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:29.050
crush the body, and they throw them out. So that

00:36:29.050 --> 00:36:32.250
resistance does exist out there in nature. And

00:36:32.250 --> 00:36:34.389
so if you're a small scale beekeeper and you

00:36:34.389 --> 00:36:37.929
can buy a queen from Kirk Webster, he does sell

00:36:37.929 --> 00:36:40.329
them. Then that's, that's one room. If you can't

00:36:40.329 --> 00:36:42.449
do that, then I think, I think you just, you

00:36:42.449 --> 00:36:45.690
have to treat your colonies. And it's true that

00:36:45.690 --> 00:36:48.789
for a lot of beekeepers, that's just not going

00:36:48.789 --> 00:36:53.510
to be reasonable. And I know of some beekeepers

00:36:53.510 --> 00:36:56.670
that have said, Hey, I'm going to do that. and

00:36:56.670 --> 00:37:01.510
they had 10 colonies and all 10 died and spread

00:37:01.510 --> 00:37:06.309
viroa everywhere else around them too. So that

00:37:06.309 --> 00:37:10.210
isn't an answer for everybody in ideal situations.

00:37:10.349 --> 00:37:13.309
I think it's fantastic. Most of us have to treat

00:37:13.309 --> 00:37:16.969
in some way. Yeah and even if you're a non -treatment

00:37:16.969 --> 00:37:19.949
person you want to do some things like you ideally

00:37:19.949 --> 00:37:22.469
you don't put all your colonies right close together.

00:37:22.489 --> 00:37:26.980
So if one is collapsing the bees that are are

00:37:26.980 --> 00:37:29.800
drifting into your adjacent hives. Right, and

00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:32.219
the treatment -free beekeepers, it doesn't mean

00:37:32.219 --> 00:37:35.900
they don't do anything. They're doing something

00:37:35.900 --> 00:37:38.079
like the genetics that you're talking about.

00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:40.699
They're doing brood breaks. They're doing other

00:37:40.699 --> 00:37:44.960
things that can help those colonies along, just

00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:50.130
maybe not chemically. That's it for part one

00:37:50.130 --> 00:37:53.130
of our discussion with Tom. Next week's episode

00:37:53.130 --> 00:37:55.369
will feature the conclusion of our discussion,

00:37:55.829 --> 00:37:58.730
where we get into a whole other set of topics,

00:37:58.869 --> 00:38:01.190
you're not going to believe how many, and even

00:38:01.190 --> 00:38:03.809
find out his favorite wild and crazy beekeeping

00:38:03.809 --> 00:38:07.429
story. Until then, remember to subscribe and

00:38:07.429 --> 00:38:10.489
follow this podcast. Also a shout out to V2B

00:38:10.489 --> 00:38:13.280
Health for their support of the show. Vida's

00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:16.679
Varroa control range of products includes Apistan,

00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:20.920
Apigard, and now Varroxan extended release oxalic

00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:24.239
acid strips. Thanks guys, enjoy this beautiful

00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:27.119
summer, enjoy your bees. Thanks again for joining

00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:29.960
us on Bee Love Beekeeping presented by our good

00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:33.039
friends over at Man Lake. And remember, if you're

00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:35.980
not just in it for the honey or the money, you're

00:38:35.980 --> 00:38:38.300
in it for the love. See you next week.