Beekeeping in New Zealand • Beekeeping Headlines

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May I have your attention, please? The following

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is not the real Jeff Fox review. If you create

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more splints than a divorce lawyer, you might

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be a beekeeper. If you go to the car wash and

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the attendant there says, I can't get rid of

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these orange spots on your vehicle. You might

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be a Vkeeper. If you refer to your very large

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family as a swarm, you might be a Vkeeper. Welcome,

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welcome to Be Love Beekeeping presented by our

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good buds over at Man Lake. We are so happy you're

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here today as we're headed down to the southern

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hemisphere for a really fun discussion with a

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passionate beekeeper who, of all things, doesn't

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like honey? What? One of the most fun things

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about doing this show is getting to know beekeepers

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from all over the world. It's amazing how much

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we have in common when it's all centered around

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the love of bees. But first, let's go to some

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headlines. Last month we had a story about Africanized

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bees killing three horses at a farm in Texas.

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Now more recently another family in Texas had

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all nine of their chickens killed by bees. The

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Stavanoja family in Bryan, Texas was left in

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shock after a swarm of bees turned aggressive

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in their backyard. Here's a quote from Jennifer

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Stavanoja. I get a text from my husband and he

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says, I think bees are killing our chickens.

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So I put the baby down and I ran outside and

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most of the chickens were already dead. And there

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was just a swarm of bees stinging all of our

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chickens. So the poor family lost their entire

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flock in minutes and now they're wondering what

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kind of bees would have caused this type of destruction.

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She said, European honey bees don't normally

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attack. You want them in your yard. But the idea

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of this Africanized colony or bad genetics or

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whatever it was, is that they get aggressive

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and they go after you. Normal honey bees don't

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do these things. So local beekeeper and professional

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bee remover Chris Barnes was called in. He said

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this type of behavior most likely has to do with

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territorial behaviors in bees. The chickens were

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likely caught in the crossfire of two colonies

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fighting for hive space. His advice? The first

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thing is to just leave them alone if bees are

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attacking or attacking like in this case Distance

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is your friend. They're not going to be aggressive

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as a general rule and the benefit of having the

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bees around far outweighs the fear that people

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have now. Even though the beehive is not on their

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property, the Stavanoha family said that they're

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taking steps to remove the hive. They also plan

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to rebuild their chicken flock. Good for them.

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Now let's go across the pond in Euro news. Spanish

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beekeepers staged an eye -catching protest in

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Valencia to plead for financial aid. Okay, this

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one you got to see the picture. It just looks

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a little nuts. And I'm quoting again from the

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article. Spanish beekeepers are taking to the

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streets this weekend to demand urgent help for

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their quote dying sector. Led by farmers union

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COAG Honey sector workers are demanding aid to

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help with the unaffordable rise in production

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costs. They're also protesting against import

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of low quality honey from countries such as China,

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which they say is flooding the market and causing

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a price crisis. In recent years, a record amount

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of honey has been imported to Spain. So here's

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what they did. 300 beekeepers got together in

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a rally in front of the Valencia Courthouse holding

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signs that read, S .O .S. Beekeeping in Danger

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of Extinction. Now here's the best part, protesters

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then drenched themselves in honey from head to

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toe to draw attention to their cause. So why

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are the beekeepers protesting in Spain? They

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say that recent high temperatures and varroa

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mites have reduced Spain's honey harvest by half.

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And like other industries beekeeping has suffered

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surging costs due to the war in Ukraine. The

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amount of aid currently allocated for beekeepers

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does not cover even one kilo of food per hive

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they say. and their colonies require about 18

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kilograms of honey or sugar syrup to survive

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the winter. Protesters are demanding increased

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quantity and quality controls on honey imports

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and more transparent labeling on the origin of

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honey sold in Spain. Go for it guys. And lastly

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here in the U .S. a headline EPA proposes to

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register new pesticide for varroa mite control.

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The U .S. Environmental Protection Agency, EPA,

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has proposed to register one technical and two

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end -use products containing the new active ingredient,

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vadascana, hope I said that right, a double -stranded

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RNA for control against varroa mites and honeybee

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hives. The EPA is prioritizing pesticide applications

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that target varroa mites to provide beekeepers

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with a variety of tools to combat the pest. According

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to them, no risks of concern to human health

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or the environment were identified. When used

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according to the label, risks to bees are not

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expected because vadascona is highly specific

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to the targeted gene within varroa mites. Additionally,

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in March of 2025, the EPA registered a new varroa

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side product containing iglutamic acid, an active

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ingredient that has not previously been included

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in registered products for use in beehives. The

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agency also intends to register another product

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containing oxalic acid, a slow release varroa

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side within beehives, by July of 2025. Together,

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these four end -use products are expected to

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provide new tools, including novel active ingredients,

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for control of Varroa mites and beehives. Now,

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hey, just a quick favor. If you haven't yet followed

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or subscribed to the show, please do so now and

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be sure to share it with a friend. Also, if you

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want to be part of the show, be sure to reach

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out to Eric at Be Love Beekeeping dot com with

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your ideas for guests, your wild and crazy beekeeping

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stories, and your suggestions for the not real

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Jeff Foxworthy on why you might be a beekeeper.

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Thank you, thank you for all that. Now let's

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head south for today's interview. Hey, welcome,

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welcome to the show today, Sarah Cross. And Sarah,

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I'm going to ask you to answer something that

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I'm going to have people try to guess where you're

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from. Oh, OK. I want to know how you got started

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in beekeeping. All right. Keep it short because

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then we're going to ask the quiz. No problem.

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So my start is quite different. So most people

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in any level of beekeeping, most start as hobbyists,

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you know, with a couple of hives in the backyard.

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I started, so I have a bachelor of science degree

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from university and I started in insects in general.

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So not actually the bees. And then I worked at

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lots of very cool places around my country. And

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then I came back to my general sort of home area

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and picked up a job at an apiculture science

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organization. I had never opened a bee hive in

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my life. The very first time that I put on a

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bee suit and did that amazing thing where you

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open the hive and seal the bees for the first

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time was in my job interview. Wow. Yeah, those

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silly people gave me that job. Good thing you

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didn't panic and scream and run away. Yeah, yeah.

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100%. They said, congratulations, here's 250

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beehives to look after. Oh, no. I literally,

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yeah, my start in beekeeping was literally thrown

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in the deep end. So I started big. Okay. And

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now I'm all the way back down to having five

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hives in the backyard. All right, quiz time.

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Everybody can answer to whoever's next to them.

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Where is Sarah from? Yes, New Zealand. And I'm

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not going to embarrass myself. Tell us what part

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of New Zealand. Oh, okay. the language of New

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Zealand, which is Māori. And so I am from New

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Zealand, which natively is called Aotearoa. I'm

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from a region called the Waikato, and my hometown

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is called Ngāruawahia. That was the part I wanted

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to say and then didn't dare. I embarrassed myself

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enough on this show already. I don't need to

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start off that way today. Anyway, it's really

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fun to have you on. You are our first guest from

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New Zealand, so congratulations on that. That's

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exciting. And one of the reasons I was interested

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in New Zealand is because somebody recently was

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asking about manuka honey. I want to talk about

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that first and then we're going to jump into

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a little bit more of your beekeeping journey

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and what in the world it's like keeping bees

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there. Oh, I had one other question, geography.

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quiz question. Where are you from Auckland? Yeah,

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half far away from Auckland, only like an hour's

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drive south. So if you know a little bit, there's

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the big old what we call the North Island, and

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Auckland's quite near the top. We are literally

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kind of smack in the middle. Alrighty. What do

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you know about Manuka honey? I do not know a

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lot about the those cool little chemical jargony

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acronyms we hear about NGOs and GM or whatever

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they're called, UMFs, only because my apiculture

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science background was working on the bees. So

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it's a fun little thing to get your head around,

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but my job has never, in all the years of me

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doing this, has never been to make honey. Which

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sounds weird, because I just say, oh, I'm a beekeeper.

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But my job has always been about the bees themselves.

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But I will tell you one of the reasons why manuka

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is hard. to get, hard to make, hard for your

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bees to get. So little old New Zealand is quite

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a long country. So our temperature gradient goes

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sort of down the country like that. And manuka

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flowers only when the temperature gets warm enough.

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So we have, in New Zealand here, we have what

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we call manuka chasers. And they will move their

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hives in at the top of the country when the manuka

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is first flowering. And they will have to move

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those every couple of weeks. And like, but like

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migratory beekeeping, and then they go all the

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way down the country. It's not common to do that

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because New Zealand is a teeny little country.

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It's not a common thing to do. And so it's a

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lot of money and outreach to get all that time,

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all the effort, all the manpower. Some of them

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even helicopter them in, the fancy ones. So that's

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one of the reasons why manuka costs so much.

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And also the bees themselves don't particularly

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like it. It's not actually a favorite. So they

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must drop them in where there's nothing else

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for them to forage on. That's what they really

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try to do. Wow. And I'll tell you another weird

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little fact. But back in the days, manuka was

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literally the pest plant. It was the scrub. It

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was when you bought a block of land, you automatically

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cut and burned all of the manuka because it was

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an absolute waste. We used to use it as firewood.

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And now there are people out there selling little

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manuka plants for thousands of dollars because

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people want their whole property planted in it.

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So it's that complete... supply and demand thing

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where suddenly they found this magical honey

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that comes from Manuka and it's completely flipped.

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Completely. It's quite odd to think about. Yeah.

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We used to slash and burn it and now we plant

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it. That's funny. Yeah. Now, just so we can get

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an idea of what it's like beekeeping in your

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area, because as we all know, beekeeping is local.

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It's if I live 25 miles from here, it would be

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different than where it is where I live So give

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us an idea of what the climate is like all year

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round So just like you mentioned local New Zealand

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itself is classed as a temperate climate So we're

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not having any massive minus 25s kind of you

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know, Alaska types up and again We don't have

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highs like Australia. So Here where I am in the

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Waikato our summertime I'm going to say I'm probably

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going to have to convert this to Fahrenheit because

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I don't know. But in the summertime here, we

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would be absolutely gasping and dying if it got

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to 30 degrees Celsius. 30 degrees Celsius is

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86 Fahrenheit. So it's always below 86 Fahrenheit.

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Okay. We would and we are sweating. Okay. And

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then here where I am in the Waikato would only,

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gosh, minus two is probably the worst winter

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day. we would have, sorry, winter night that

00:13:48.580 --> 00:13:51.879
we would have. That's 28 degrees for us. Wow,

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that is very mild. Yeah, it's exactly temperate.

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It's not very, and even between the days and

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the nights, it's not a big change as well. And

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again, that's here in the Waikato. If you go

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much further down south in New Zealand, they

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definitely get the big snows and things like

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that, but it doesn't snow here. It's not ever

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that cold. So very temperate. So yeah, very different.

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So I see amazing people overseas wrapping their

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hives and getting covered in snow. And I'm like...

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Don't have to do that. But do you have pests?

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Warm climate type of pests. We have a lot less

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than most countries. We do not have small hive

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beetle, which I know I see in Australia, which

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is quite a... If that comes over here, we're

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in big trouble. We have had Varroa, Varroa destructus

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since the year 2000. So we've had 25 years of

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dealing with that. We have AFB, so American foul

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brood, but we do not have European foul brood.

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So we've got a few less than some people. Yeah.

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And other things like deform wing virus? Yes.

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Any of those viruses? Yeah. 100 % deform wings.

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Deform wings is the main one. We do have acute

00:14:56.440 --> 00:15:00.240
paralysis, but none of those are rampant sort

00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:03.279
of anywhere. Chalk brood, because we are a temperate,

00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:06.720
quite damp, we will sometimes get a bit of that

00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:08.879
coming through. But again, nothing that's massively

00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:10.779
damaging. Of course, like most of the word, varroa

00:15:10.779 --> 00:15:13.299
is of course our number one vein of our existence.

00:15:13.830 --> 00:15:16.110
Yeah, how do you deal with it there? Maybe we

00:15:16.110 --> 00:15:20.149
can learn something from you. We definitely have

00:15:20.149 --> 00:15:23.210
moved into the realm of integrated pest management,

00:15:23.710 --> 00:15:26.110
because again, like most of the country, just

00:15:26.110 --> 00:15:28.970
throwing in the strips and, you know, taking

00:15:28.970 --> 00:15:31.009
them out and however many weeks is not working

00:15:31.009 --> 00:15:35.049
like it used to. So yeah, a lot of all the other,

00:15:35.850 --> 00:15:37.350
you might have heard New Zealand, we have this

00:15:37.350 --> 00:15:40.110
number eight wire is called, it's like a, we

00:15:40.110 --> 00:15:42.379
like to make things, we like to... figure stuff

00:15:42.379 --> 00:15:44.899
out. And there's lots of people here in New Zealand

00:15:44.899 --> 00:15:47.379
who have made their own little bits and pieces

00:15:47.379 --> 00:15:49.320
to do with, a lot of it's to do with oxalic acid

00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:51.899
and different ways that we treat with those.

00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:54.240
There's also a lot of physical, very cool little

00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:57.179
physical things that a lot of New Zealand engineer

00:15:57.179 --> 00:16:00.139
beekeeper fellas are doing. One of them is sort

00:16:00.139 --> 00:16:02.399
of quite specific sort of queen trapping system

00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:04.840
to make the hive broodless for a little bit so

00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:07.360
then you can treat and get all the phoretic mites

00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:09.639
and things like that. Definitely lots of, and

00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:11.820
even in the science industry, we've got quite

00:16:11.820 --> 00:16:16.419
a few people doing insane stuff with like mRNA

00:16:16.419 --> 00:16:18.559
and things like that of the actual Varroa itself

00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:20.659
to try and stop its breeding cycle and things

00:16:20.659 --> 00:16:23.179
like that. But these are very much years and

00:16:23.179 --> 00:16:26.159
years sort of to come through, but we definitely

00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:28.159
know as beekeepers that we cannot do what we

00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:30.320
used to do because it's not working. And that's

00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:32.200
a big thing that we're learning here. Again,

00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:34.840
we should already know it, but you've probably

00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:37.320
heard about the big bee die off this year in

00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:39.960
the States. Have you heard about it? Oh, hundred

00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:43.220
percent. It's very scary. Yeah, it's bad. Yeah.

00:16:43.639 --> 00:16:46.960
And just a few days ago, well, depending on the

00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:49.679
date that this podcast comes out, but from when

00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:52.320
we're recording, it was just a week or so ago,

00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.919
we got some results from some of the first research

00:16:55.919 --> 00:17:00.179
that's being done. And what they're finding is

00:17:00.179 --> 00:17:03.860
two things. Some of the viruses that are passed

00:17:03.860 --> 00:17:07.039
by Varroa, those are what's killing the hives.

00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:10.500
But some of the treatment that has been used

00:17:10.500 --> 00:17:13.660
for a long time is just not very effective anymore.

00:17:14.299 --> 00:17:17.279
It's been used over and over and over so much

00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:20.079
and, oh, it's not working so good, we better

00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:23.039
give a higher dose and then a higher dose. Well,

00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:25.440
now it's not working anymore. So the IPM that

00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:28.119
you're talking about, which everybody knows the

00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:32.400
term, we all have to do a better job of putting

00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:35.400
that into, you know, just part of how we bee

00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:39.390
keep. And you mentioned brood breaks. Yeah. But

00:17:39.390 --> 00:17:42.470
what is this wire you were talking about? It's

00:17:42.470 --> 00:17:46.069
just one of the amazing beekeeping outfits is

00:17:46.069 --> 00:17:48.809
just, I can't remember who calls it, sorry, but

00:17:48.809 --> 00:17:52.430
it's basically just securing the queen into one

00:17:52.430 --> 00:17:54.730
specific area. So not a tiny little queen cage

00:17:54.730 --> 00:17:57.410
like we do for introductions, but just sort of

00:17:57.410 --> 00:18:01.309
a sort of a trap to hold her in there. So just

00:18:01.309 --> 00:18:04.569
on that one frame so that then which can basically

00:18:04.569 --> 00:18:07.210
cause a brood break and be able to treat the

00:18:07.210 --> 00:18:12.130
hives as well. Quick break to thank our presenting

00:18:12.130 --> 00:18:15.829
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00:18:15.829 --> 00:18:18.829
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00:18:18.829 --> 00:18:21.470
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00:18:21.750 --> 00:18:23.970
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00:18:24.549 --> 00:18:28.089
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00:18:28.089 --> 00:18:30.589
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00:18:30.809 --> 00:18:34.089
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00:18:34.549 --> 00:18:36.529
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00:18:36.529 --> 00:18:40.529
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00:18:40.529 --> 00:18:42.650
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00:18:42.650 --> 00:18:45.819
MLBlove. 10, it's in the show notes, for $10

00:18:45.819 --> 00:18:51.799
off your first $100 purchase. Can I just ask,

00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:53.160
sorry, I'm just going to put in and ask you a

00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:55.099
question here. In terms of the chemicals that

00:18:55.099 --> 00:18:57.059
you use in the US, is there really only sort

00:18:57.059 --> 00:19:00.579
of one chemical class that you use for the Varroa

00:19:00.579 --> 00:19:03.579
treatments? What do you mean by class? Well,

00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:05.619
so, okay, here in New Zealand we have, we're

00:19:05.619 --> 00:19:08.259
very, very stressful to say that people, so we

00:19:08.259 --> 00:19:11.700
treat in the spring and the autumn. And we always

00:19:11.700 --> 00:19:15.380
tell our new beekeepers to rotate those treatments.

00:19:15.700 --> 00:19:19.720
So we have two different chemical classes, I

00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:21.500
think, and I'm going to blow myself in trouble

00:19:21.500 --> 00:19:23.440
because I haven't done this role, like fluvalinate

00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:26.059
and flumethrin, and there's a third one, which

00:19:26.059 --> 00:19:28.119
I can't remember, amitrase or apitrase, something.

00:19:28.579 --> 00:19:30.440
And they are in chemical, two different chemical

00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:32.640
classes. And so we always tell our beekeepers

00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:34.980
to swap those around. So they're not always getting,

00:19:35.180 --> 00:19:36.980
like you mentioned, always getting the same chemical

00:19:36.980 --> 00:19:39.079
throw in that. Is that not something that you

00:19:39.079 --> 00:19:42.750
do or? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So for example,

00:19:43.029 --> 00:19:45.049
formic acid can come in a couple of different

00:19:45.049 --> 00:19:48.390
ways. So you've got to use that one time and

00:19:48.390 --> 00:19:51.029
not the other kind of formic another time, but

00:19:51.029 --> 00:19:53.369
something completely different. Exactly. Yeah.

00:19:53.630 --> 00:19:57.049
So yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Again, we just need

00:19:57.049 --> 00:20:00.140
to do a better job of Oh, yeah, because as you

00:20:00.140 --> 00:20:01.799
know, some things when we treat are easier than

00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:03.559
others. And sometimes if you're a bit like me

00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:05.920
and you're a bit lazy, you sometimes just go,

00:20:06.019 --> 00:20:08.240
I'll just do the easy, which is not obviously

00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.700
the best way to be, but I fully understand that.

00:20:11.099 --> 00:20:14.160
So, yeah. So you mentioned oxalic acid, which

00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:17.140
is very popular here. In what ways do you use

00:20:17.140 --> 00:20:19.960
it? The least common way is the dribble, as in

00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:21.960
physically mixed in with sugar syrup, and you

00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:24.180
just dribble it over the seams on top of the

00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:26.730
bees. Very common is what we call the staples,

00:20:27.150 --> 00:20:30.970
which are soaked in like a cardboard strip, which

00:20:30.970 --> 00:20:33.250
you then put down over the top of the frames

00:20:33.250 --> 00:20:35.710
like that. So down in like a staple form. Another

00:20:35.710 --> 00:20:38.150
one that's gaining a lot of traction now is the

00:20:38.150 --> 00:20:41.890
fogging. So having a little vaporizer and blasting

00:20:41.890 --> 00:20:43.890
the fog through there. Those are the three that

00:20:43.890 --> 00:20:45.890
I can think of right now. But the staples are

00:20:45.890 --> 00:20:47.470
really, really common now. And people just leave

00:20:47.470 --> 00:20:50.650
them in all the time while still doing the other

00:20:50.650 --> 00:20:53.509
sort of synthetic chemical ones at the same time.

00:20:53.829 --> 00:20:56.579
So yeah. In fact, one of the sponsors of the

00:20:56.579 --> 00:20:59.940
show, one of their products is Veroxan, which

00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:02.599
is exactly what you're talking about. None of

00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:06.240
ours have brand names. It's quite new. Yeah,

00:21:06.259 --> 00:21:08.299
it's quite new and the results are sounding very,

00:21:08.299 --> 00:21:10.880
very positive. And it's just like, say, IPM,

00:21:10.940 --> 00:21:12.839
you've got to kind of do them all together. Yeah,

00:21:13.059 --> 00:21:16.319
absolutely. And the whole brew break thing, I'm

00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:18.940
a big fan of. That's one reason I love splits.

00:21:19.849 --> 00:21:22.730
As I try to think about positive things of the

00:21:22.730 --> 00:21:27.009
very cold winters where I specifically am, that's

00:21:27.009 --> 00:21:29.309
one of the things that we get a positive out

00:21:29.309 --> 00:21:31.910
of that winter. If the bees make it through,

00:21:31.970 --> 00:21:34.029
they've had a brood break. But have you talked

00:21:34.029 --> 00:21:36.650
to anyone from Australia lately? I have, but

00:21:36.650 --> 00:21:38.930
it's been a little while. I only say that because

00:21:38.930 --> 00:21:41.690
Australia has only just got Varroa. Yeah, just

00:21:41.690 --> 00:21:43.650
in the last couple of years. Yeah, only just.

00:21:43.769 --> 00:21:45.869
And that's exactly what I'm really worried about

00:21:45.869 --> 00:21:48.150
because they, I don't know if you've ever been

00:21:48.150 --> 00:21:51.380
to Australia in winter. It's not winter. There

00:21:51.380 --> 00:21:55.279
winter is like my spring day, like it's not cold

00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:57.819
at all. There is no way that those bees would

00:21:57.819 --> 00:22:00.880
ever have any kind of food break in terms of

00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.740
being cold. So it really worries me how the Varroa

00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:05.720
is going to get through Australia. It's actually

00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:08.640
quite scary. So that's just a little worrying

00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.019
thing that we... They sure went crazy trying

00:22:11.019 --> 00:22:14.319
to kill it all off at first. That was unsuccessful.

00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:17.619
Now they just need to buckle down like the rest

00:22:17.619 --> 00:22:21.099
of us. But I feel bad for them. I don't wish

00:22:21.099 --> 00:22:24.039
for on anybody. No, exactly. And they held it

00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:26.059
off for so long. It was so fantastic. But yeah,

00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:27.779
it's really quite scary to watch over the ditch.

00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:30.880
OK, I'm going to backtrack now. What is it like

00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:35.960
getting a job where you have 250 hives to manage

00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:38.759
and you've just met bees for the very first time?

00:22:38.859 --> 00:22:41.099
Hello, ladies. It's just one of those such a

00:22:41.099 --> 00:22:42.839
cool memory. And I'm sure lots of people can

00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:44.180
say that the very first time they might have

00:22:44.180 --> 00:22:46.460
gone out with a beekeeper and done that big opening

00:22:46.460 --> 00:22:48.119
up the hive. And I still can't believe that was

00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:52.059
in my job interview. Yeah, just so getting thrown

00:22:52.059 --> 00:22:53.920
in the deep end. And it's cool because, I mean,

00:22:53.940 --> 00:22:56.019
this was my job. So I was opening bee huts every

00:22:56.019 --> 00:22:59.430
single day. But I was taught by an amazing gentleman

00:22:59.430 --> 00:23:02.789
here in New Zealand, Dr Mark Goodwin, who was

00:23:02.789 --> 00:23:06.029
the head of our apiculture and pollination team

00:23:06.029 --> 00:23:08.130
for many, many years. And he's amazing. He is

00:23:08.130 --> 00:23:10.829
my mentor. We still hang out together. We've

00:23:10.829 --> 00:23:12.250
written some books together about beekeeping

00:23:12.250 --> 00:23:15.130
and stuff, and he's amazing. And I very much

00:23:15.130 --> 00:23:19.349
learned from him how to get the science sort

00:23:19.349 --> 00:23:21.460
of across. So it was very cool, like don't get

00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:23.220
me wrong, it was very, very, very cool, high

00:23:23.220 --> 00:23:26.339
level testing for oral treatments and like toxicology

00:23:26.339 --> 00:23:28.859
testing, very cool science. But I found that

00:23:28.859 --> 00:23:31.400
I liked people and stuff more. So that's how

00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:33.900
I've kind of turned around. And can I say something

00:23:33.900 --> 00:23:37.140
funny that I didn't realize? So if you see any

00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:40.099
of my social media stuff now, I barely wear suits,

00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.759
no gloves, things like that. But because I started

00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:45.279
in commercial, I didn't know people did that.

00:23:45.900 --> 00:23:48.359
That had been my only view. I'd only seen commercial

00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:51.339
beekeepers. fully suited. I shouldn't say making

00:23:51.339 --> 00:23:53.599
the best crazy, but a lot of times we had a time

00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:55.420
limit. This was, you know, I've got to get this

00:23:55.420 --> 00:23:57.480
done. And so it was a little bit more chaotic.

00:23:58.099 --> 00:24:00.299
And only years and years later did I see the

00:24:00.299 --> 00:24:03.440
other side and that lovely, calm, hobby side

00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:06.859
of BKB. So yeah, like I say, my intro to BKB

00:24:06.859 --> 00:24:10.420
was a little bit different. So yeah. It's a big,

00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:12.970
big difference. And I don't blame the commercial

00:24:12.970 --> 00:24:15.130
beekeepers. It's their business. They have to

00:24:15.130 --> 00:24:17.309
do what they have to do. Those of us that have

00:24:17.309 --> 00:24:20.309
the luxury of being able to go slow and take

00:24:20.309 --> 00:24:24.150
our time. Yes. It's such an enjoyable and different

00:24:24.150 --> 00:24:26.930
kind of experience. I love it. I absolutely love

00:24:26.930 --> 00:24:28.329
it. But it's funny to me that I'd never seen

00:24:28.329 --> 00:24:31.029
it. I'd never seen anyone open beehives with

00:24:31.029 --> 00:24:34.029
no gloves on. Like it was this mind -boggling

00:24:34.029 --> 00:24:37.769
thing when I first saw it. So yeah. So what made

00:24:37.769 --> 00:24:39.609
you think you should all of a sudden do this?

00:24:39.930 --> 00:24:43.690
Do the no gloves. Oh, that took years, years

00:24:43.690 --> 00:24:45.630
and years. And I tell you, this is funny. It

00:24:45.630 --> 00:24:48.130
was one of our, we got a new scientist and she

00:24:48.130 --> 00:24:52.269
was from America. And her, she was also doing

00:24:52.269 --> 00:24:55.190
apiculture. The scale of her beekeeping was a

00:24:55.190 --> 00:24:58.670
lot smaller. So she was, I would just say a large

00:24:58.670 --> 00:25:00.890
hobbyist. And yeah, and she was, she wore a lot

00:25:00.890 --> 00:25:04.259
less gear, barely wore gloves. And it was just

00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:06.279
this eye opening like, wow, I didn't realize

00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:08.559
I could do this. And so it was just a very slow

00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:11.099
process to from big gloves to slightly smaller

00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:14.880
to garden gloves to step by step. Yeah. And now

00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:17.200
I couldn't think to wear gloves ever again. Yeah.

00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:19.319
It's such a different thing. Yeah. But it's seeing

00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:21.519
it. You don't know unless you see it. You can

00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:25.279
gently pull out a frame without squishing anything

00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:28.579
or anybody. And it makes a big, big difference

00:25:28.579 --> 00:25:31.900
in how they react to that dexterity that you

00:25:31.900 --> 00:25:34.859
can have. And it takes a little bit of getting

00:25:34.859 --> 00:25:38.240
used to when you feel a bee walking around on

00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:41.299
your hand and you look and realize she's probably

00:25:41.299 --> 00:25:43.319
not even going to sting me. She's just looking

00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:46.019
around. And if she does, it's not the end of

00:25:46.019 --> 00:25:48.460
the world. It's OK. That's such a learned behavior.

00:25:48.660 --> 00:25:51.339
So you don't do the 250 hives anymore, right?

00:25:51.539 --> 00:25:55.859
No. No, I haven't done that for a while. Sometimes

00:25:55.859 --> 00:25:57.980
I contract to big commercial places, but I haven't

00:25:57.980 --> 00:25:59.319
done that for a couple of years now. But I did

00:25:59.319 --> 00:26:02.539
look at your website, Sarah Sees Bees. Did I

00:26:02.539 --> 00:26:04.400
get that right? Yeah, Sarah Sees Bees, yeah.

00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:06.799
Okay. Well, tell us a little bit about what you

00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:09.920
do for business, a little bit about your business

00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:13.039
model. I do a lot. I didn't mean to do a lot.

00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:14.980
Like I say, when I worked in apiculture science,

00:26:15.059 --> 00:26:17.220
I really did think that was going to be my whole

00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:19.079
career. You know, that was it. I was going to

00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:20.660
like lots of scientists in the world. They stay

00:26:20.660 --> 00:26:23.619
in the same job for 40, 50 years. But then my

00:26:23.619 --> 00:26:26.039
wonderful boss, Mark Goodwin, he said he had

00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:29.680
to retire for medical reasons. And I found out

00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:31.799
that, I shouldn't say I found out, I kind of

00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:33.779
already knew, but he really was my reason for

00:26:33.779 --> 00:26:36.440
going to work. I love that man. And I loved our

00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:39.079
working relationship. And I just found that it

00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:42.200
just wasn't as fun without him. So when I used

00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:44.420
to explain our relationship, he had the big ideas

00:26:44.420 --> 00:26:47.180
and I would get things done. And so I left there

00:26:47.180 --> 00:26:49.140
and I was a bit sort of floating around for a

00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:51.539
little bit. And a lot of the clients from where

00:26:51.539 --> 00:26:53.480
I used to work contacted me personally and said,

00:26:53.539 --> 00:26:55.700
hey, would you run this for us? So I sort of

00:26:55.700 --> 00:26:59.400
delved into that. But then I realized that I

00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:00.920
really like to teach beekeeping. I really like

00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.599
to help people and talk to people about what

00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:05.960
they're doing it and how they're doing it. And

00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:08.339
it turned out that I started to help a lot of

00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:11.039
people with things like disease checks because

00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:12.599
back where I used to work, we used to breed.

00:27:13.300 --> 00:27:15.259
AFB, American Fowl Brood, so I know a lot about

00:27:15.259 --> 00:27:17.339
it, and how they're with disease checking and

00:27:17.339 --> 00:27:20.059
just general hive maintenance and stuff as well.

00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:22.539
And it just kind of snowballed from there. So

00:27:22.539 --> 00:27:27.559
I now have a lot of clients that I assist either

00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:29.440
on a subscription as in every single month, I

00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:30.980
pop out to their hive with them and have a little

00:27:30.980 --> 00:27:32.819
look or just sort of ad hoc when they ring me

00:27:32.819 --> 00:27:36.079
when something's gone awry. I also hire hives

00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:37.420
out to people. There are a lot of people that

00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:40.240
love the idea of bees. but either don't particularly

00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.059
want to get in there or don't have the time,

00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:44.000
and so I'll manage them for them. But one of

00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:47.599
the very cool things I do is I take bees in a

00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:50.839
little observation hive out to schools. I dress

00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:53.980
up like a bee, like literally with the stripes

00:27:53.980 --> 00:27:56.480
and the wings of the antennae. I saw your pants

00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:59.299
a minute ago. Yeah, we shot. I don't know if

00:27:59.299 --> 00:28:00.680
the rest of the world needs to see these pants,

00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.200
but they're very straby. And I dress up completely

00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:05.640
like a bee, and I will go and take my little

00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:09.759
bee talk to anything from kindergartens all the

00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:11.700
way up to retirement villages and everything

00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:15.259
in between. And we talk about bees and I explain

00:28:15.259 --> 00:28:18.900
the life cycle and what they do. And yeah, it's

00:28:18.900 --> 00:28:21.720
just a very cool way to get, even though I'd

00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:23.779
like to say did all this massive high level science

00:28:23.779 --> 00:28:26.559
and I've come all the way back down because I'm

00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:29.000
sure you know this Eric, but it amazes me that

00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:32.319
the majority of the world doesn't even know that

00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:35.779
our beautiful honeybees are females. Do you know

00:28:35.779 --> 00:28:37.240
what I mean? Like it's this, I was doing this

00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:40.240
massive high level staff and yet the general

00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:43.039
public didn't even know like the bare basics

00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:46.240
of all the worker bees are females. So I've kind

00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:48.799
of turned it around and I do some very cool outreach

00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:51.740
stuff all around the Waikato. So yeah, fun stuff

00:28:51.740 --> 00:28:54.339
that I get to do. So a lot of education. Yeah.

00:28:54.579 --> 00:28:57.839
That is awesome. Are your bees down there very

00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:02.140
different than ours? Our races, we have Italians

00:29:02.140 --> 00:29:05.539
and we have Carniolans, et cetera. Yep. There's

00:29:05.539 --> 00:29:07.140
one that I hear you guys talk about that I've

00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:09.440
never heard is the buckfast. And I assume that's

00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:11.579
just like a subspecies because I'd never heard

00:29:11.579 --> 00:29:15.059
of that. I think, oh, don't quote me on this.

00:29:15.140 --> 00:29:18.059
I'm not an expert or a scientist. I believe they're

00:29:18.059 --> 00:29:22.000
from England and they're not that easy to get

00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:25.740
here. They're not very well known here. Okay.

00:29:25.740 --> 00:29:27.359
It's just, like I said, something I saw on social

00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:28.940
media and I'd never heard of that. But you're

00:29:28.940 --> 00:29:32.059
right. We have Apis mellipera, mainly the Italian

00:29:32.059 --> 00:29:36.150
and the Carniola. Okay. So very similar to here.

00:29:36.609 --> 00:29:39.009
Yeah. Russians are getting a little bit more

00:29:39.009 --> 00:29:43.049
popular. Do you have Russians? I don't think

00:29:43.049 --> 00:29:45.710
so, no. And then even though we don't like it,

00:29:45.710 --> 00:29:48.910
there are a lot of Africanized bees in the southern

00:29:48.910 --> 00:29:52.029
United States in the real warm climates. And

00:29:52.029 --> 00:29:54.490
they have bred with a lot of the local bees.

00:29:55.269 --> 00:29:58.450
And so there's a lot of hybrids and they're not

00:29:58.450 --> 00:30:01.950
friendly bees. As you know, the Italians are

00:30:01.950 --> 00:30:04.990
little sweethearts. I definitely breed my bees

00:30:04.990 --> 00:30:07.309
for calmness. So that's the thing when people

00:30:07.309 --> 00:30:09.089
talk about being a beekeeper and making honey.

00:30:09.490 --> 00:30:11.990
I don't care if my bees make honey or not. I

00:30:11.990 --> 00:30:13.990
use my bees for education. I have to go in there

00:30:13.990 --> 00:30:16.089
all the time, take them out, put them in an observation

00:30:16.089 --> 00:30:20.150
hive, or I have people over to my apiaries to

00:30:20.150 --> 00:30:22.490
show them bees as like an introductory. I will

00:30:22.490 --> 00:30:25.430
literally breed them for calm niceness. I do

00:30:25.430 --> 00:30:27.710
not care if they make honey, like not my thing.

00:30:27.910 --> 00:30:30.960
So I don't like honey. I love honey, but I agree

00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:34.380
with you. I have seen the best beekeepers are

00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:36.599
the ones that just do it for the bees. I don't

00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:39.740
even like honey. I don't know if you have, but

00:30:39.740 --> 00:30:42.740
I have seen people that are like, Oh, I want

00:30:42.740 --> 00:30:46.599
to try beekeeping. And, you know, the first or

00:30:46.599 --> 00:30:49.319
second year all their bees die and they go, I

00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:51.819
didn't even get any honey. What good is that?

00:30:53.259 --> 00:30:57.000
Yeah. Fully concur. But they were nice enough

00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:59.400
to share their varroa with all the rest of us

00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:03.559
in the meantime. Touche. Correct. Oh, I've, and

00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:07.339
that happens everywhere. I mean, we, I still

00:31:07.339 --> 00:31:09.900
can't believe we had, we have an apiculture conference

00:31:09.900 --> 00:31:12.779
every year in Little Old New Zealand and all

00:31:12.779 --> 00:31:16.079
the beekeepers come together. And this is only

00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:17.779
a couple of years ago. And I remember being there

00:31:17.779 --> 00:31:19.599
and a lady came up, I don't know, we were talking

00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:23.039
something about varroa. and the lady at the conference

00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:25.299
who paid money and came all the way here for

00:31:25.299 --> 00:31:27.460
this lovely conference stood there and said,

00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:31.519
what's for Roa? And I just, yeah. So you're right.

00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:34.740
We subject to a different level of beekeeping.

00:31:35.299 --> 00:31:37.299
Did you say, I hope you don't have bees yet.

00:31:37.539 --> 00:31:40.359
You're just honest in your educational phase.

00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:43.160
I just, I just walked away. I'm not gonna lie.

00:31:43.259 --> 00:31:44.980
It was like, it was like too much that I had

00:31:44.980 --> 00:31:46.779
to give this woman in terms of information. So

00:31:46.779 --> 00:31:49.819
I just did. Or do I? The alternative would have

00:31:49.819 --> 00:31:52.680
been too rude. No, yeah, I just. All right. Sarah,

00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:55.000
can you give me one of your favorite wild and

00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:58.099
crazy beekeeping stories? I've had many crazy

00:31:58.099 --> 00:32:02.460
stories. Oh, gosh. It's probably not a fun one,

00:32:02.460 --> 00:32:04.759
but I can tell you the worst. I've been stung

00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:08.079
on nearly every place imaginable, including on

00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:10.119
the island twice. You'd think I would learn my

00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:13.220
lesson, but I didn't. That's not ideal. But the

00:32:13.220 --> 00:32:15.180
worst I ever had. So we're talking about nice,

00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:18.119
calm bees. So when I was doing apiculture science,

00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:20.339
we had to go to a lot of big commercial outfits.

00:32:20.539 --> 00:32:22.539
Not our bees, obviously, someone else's commercial

00:32:22.539 --> 00:32:26.359
apiaries to do these trials, testing different

00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:30.200
things. And we went out to a big, big New Zealand

00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:34.000
commercial beekeepers apiary. Super angry bees.

00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.380
My gosh, this was just, everyone was completely

00:32:37.380 --> 00:32:40.420
suited up, very, very scary. And at this point

00:32:40.420 --> 00:32:42.319
in time, everyone was in the behinds and I was

00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:46.319
actually being the... the scribe I was writing.

00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:48.799
I was not even standing that close to the hives.

00:32:48.859 --> 00:32:50.640
I wasn't even in the hives, but still fully suited.

00:32:50.859 --> 00:32:53.920
And I was writing with a black pen. And the bees

00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:58.240
were attacking this moving black pen like their

00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.319
lives depended on it. They really did. But it's

00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:03.200
one of those things that I tell to my hobby beekeepers

00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:06.559
about how wearing dark clothes and moving fast

00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:08.660
attracts the bees. But I still could not understand

00:33:08.660 --> 00:33:12.480
how insane that they were going for that black

00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.599
moving pen. and those same bees are the ones

00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:18.380
that got me when I someone called me over to

00:33:18.380 --> 00:33:19.980
have a look on the hive and I'm fully suited

00:33:19.980 --> 00:33:21.859
you know full veil and everything and I bent

00:33:21.859 --> 00:33:23.720
down to have a look at something and I've been

00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:27.200
too far and my little schnoz my nose touched

00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:31.339
the very edge of the veil just for like you know

00:33:31.339 --> 00:33:33.839
a second and a bee got me instantly on the tip

00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:37.500
of the nose so I'm fully in my veil instant snot

00:33:38.049 --> 00:33:41.089
bogeys running down my face, instant crying and

00:33:41.089 --> 00:33:43.349
I'm trapped inside and I'm like, I don't know

00:33:43.349 --> 00:33:46.009
what to do. And I couldn't even get far enough

00:33:46.009 --> 00:33:48.069
away for the bees to leave me alone. Well, I

00:33:48.069 --> 00:33:51.609
just was, yeah, it was not a fun day. Wouldn't

00:33:51.609 --> 00:33:54.029
recommend. What was it like when you got stung

00:33:54.029 --> 00:33:56.710
on the eyelid? Wasn't even that bad. Didn't swell

00:33:56.710 --> 00:33:59.390
up too much? No, I never swell. And the embarrassing

00:33:59.390 --> 00:34:02.130
thing was I had my students and it was literally

00:34:02.130 --> 00:34:04.470
either their first or second class of meeting

00:34:04.470 --> 00:34:07.230
me. because I teach beekeeping as well. We walked

00:34:07.230 --> 00:34:09.250
into the apiary. We were far away from the bees

00:34:09.250 --> 00:34:11.150
because none of us had suits on. And I was explaining

00:34:11.150 --> 00:34:12.650
how we shouldn't, you know, we don't go near

00:34:12.650 --> 00:34:15.909
the bees without a suit and at least the veil.

00:34:16.409 --> 00:34:19.769
Do as I say, not as I do. And we walked around

00:34:19.769 --> 00:34:21.969
and I kid you not, a bee just must have just

00:34:21.969 --> 00:34:24.369
been on its flight path and just went straight

00:34:24.369 --> 00:34:26.530
and stung me straight on the eye. And they all

00:34:26.530 --> 00:34:29.469
freaked out. And I was like, it'll be fine. This

00:34:29.469 --> 00:34:31.110
is their first foray into beekeeping and their

00:34:31.110 --> 00:34:33.659
teacher gets stung on the eye. I was like. I

00:34:33.659 --> 00:34:36.380
like to do as I say, not as I do. Oh, that's

00:34:36.380 --> 00:34:38.099
smart, that's smart. Did the one on the nose

00:34:38.099 --> 00:34:40.940
hurt a lot? The funny thing is I don't particularly

00:34:40.940 --> 00:34:44.420
remember the pain. I just remember that instant,

00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:48.519
you know, when it just throws your whole nasal,

00:34:48.579 --> 00:34:51.619
you know, just the snot in them. Yeah, that's

00:34:51.619 --> 00:34:55.139
funny. Yeah. You don't swell, but everything

00:34:55.139 --> 00:34:56.960
just... It was just anything to do with the nose

00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:00.099
and having, yeah. Yeah, it affected your sinuses

00:35:00.099 --> 00:35:03.260
just like that. Yeah. It was, and I was trapped

00:35:03.260 --> 00:35:05.019
in there, you know, that feeling of, you know,

00:35:05.019 --> 00:35:07.199
you can't do anything. And I'm like, inside the

00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:09.699
veil. Oh, it was so bad. Yeah. It's not a good

00:35:09.699 --> 00:35:12.099
thing. All right. Before I let you go, is there

00:35:12.099 --> 00:35:14.360
any other words of wisdom that you would love

00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:16.860
to leave with our listeners? I feel like they

00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:18.260
probably already know the things. But the one

00:35:18.260 --> 00:35:19.800
thing that I always teach all my hobby beekeepers

00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.420
is cool, calm, and collected. And it's very much

00:35:22.420 --> 00:35:24.880
a learned behavior. Like you sort of talked a

00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:26.719
little bit about before about bees walking on

00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:30.420
us. And it's, it's that getting over that. I

00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:31.960
shouldn't say fear. I mean, you learn to be afraid

00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:34.579
of them, but it's that what's it called? Maybe

00:35:34.579 --> 00:35:37.980
desensitization might be the word. Like the more

00:35:37.980 --> 00:35:41.139
you go into your hives calmly and slowly, the

00:35:41.139 --> 00:35:42.639
more you realize, like you say, they're not out

00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:45.460
to get you. They don't want to sting you. It's

00:35:45.460 --> 00:35:49.199
sort of learning with them rather than sort of

00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:51.380
do as I say kind of thing. Yeah. Cool, calm and

00:35:51.380 --> 00:35:53.780
collected is what I teach my beekeeping students.

00:35:54.139 --> 00:35:57.570
Yeah. Three C's. I like it. Yeah, yeah. Sarah

00:35:57.570 --> 00:36:00.269
Cross. Hey, thanks. It's been a lot of fun. Thank

00:36:00.269 --> 00:36:05.849
you for inviting me. Very cool. Thanks again

00:36:05.849 --> 00:36:08.630
for joining us here on Be Love Beekeeping presented

00:36:08.630 --> 00:36:12.530
by Man Lake. Remember right now to follow or

00:36:12.530 --> 00:36:16.150
subscribe and share this podcast. Also, a quick

00:36:16.150 --> 00:36:18.530
shout out to Vita Bee Health for their support.

00:36:19.289 --> 00:36:22.250
Vita's Varroa Control range of products includes

00:36:22.250 --> 00:36:26.110
Apistan, Apigard, and now Varroxan, Extended

00:36:26.110 --> 00:36:29.889
Release Oxalic Acid Strips. Thanks guys. And

00:36:29.889 --> 00:36:32.289
remember, if you're not just in it for the honey

00:36:32.289 --> 00:36:35.210
or the money, you're in it for the love. See

00:36:35.210 --> 00:36:35.909
you next week.