Beehive Winter Prep, Amitraz Resistance & Crazy Beekeeping Stories

WEBVTT

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in a world brimming with complexity few creatures

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embody harmony like the honeybee with tireless

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precision she dances from bloom to bloom each

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motion guided by millennia upon millennia of

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instinct each act in service to the whole and

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then There are the beekeepers, watchful stewards

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of this ancient symbiosis. Part agriscientist,

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part poet, they move along their hives with the

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efficiency of mow, levy and curly, tending to

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the bee's needs as best they can comprehend,

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and with the infrequency of a waterfall in the

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Sahara, sometimes running off flapping and flailing

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like a penguin on a hot sidewalk. This is their

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journey. Welcome, welcome to Be Love Beekeeping

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presented by our good friends over at Man Lake.

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You know, keeping Varroa in check is important

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all year round, but especially in the fall as

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we prepare our bees for winter. So what's your

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plan? Do you know what your mite loads are? If

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they're high, what will you do and when? Can

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you even spell IPM? I don't claim to have all

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the answers. In fact, nobody has all the answers.

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But today we're going to have a discussion with

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Amber Leach from Veto Pharma about their newest

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treatment option. first a few fun beekeeping

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stories told in the beekeeper's own words. I

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didn't think it was funny but somebody watching

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would have laughed their off. It's a cautionary

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tale about keeping the ground around your apiary

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and the path to and from the apiary clear of

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obstructions. I was carrying a full super from

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the apiary to be extracted. I had a tangled garden

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hose laying across the path. The scene is set.

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The predictable happened. I dropped the box,

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lurching and stumbling with the hose around my

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ankle. The frame spilled out. I landed in the

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pile of frames and got honey all over me and

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my bee suit. The good news was the bees didn't

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automatically come after me they were more interested

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in the honey and in just it seemed like a split

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second I was covered with bees. Running away

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wasn't going to work. Fortunately the honey had

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the bees preoccupied so I hobbled a few feet

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away took off the bee jacket which was covered

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with bees and left it and the bees hanging on

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a tree branch. My honey smeared bee -covered

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pants were a different problem not so easily

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solved. I couldn't take them off outside. My

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wife thought it was hilarious while she was hosing

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me off. Alright next story. My friend came to

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visit. He was afraid of bees but wanted to see

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my hives. At the time I would do my inspections

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in shorts and a t -shirt. I gave him my beekeeper

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hat and veil and he watched from about 30 feet

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away while I opened the hive and took out a frame.

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Of course the bees completely ignored me and

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flew all the way over and stung him. This is

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just further evidence that bees sense fear. I

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had one more, but it involved someone throwing

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up before they could get their veil unzipped

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and off. Let's just leave it at that. Hey, I'd

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like to welcome our very special guest today,

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Amber Leach, coming to us from the Denver area.

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Good morning, Amber. Good morning. How are you?

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I'm great. How are you today? Fantastic. We don't

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have snow yet so I can't complain. Well we don't

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have snow yet so I can complain because I love

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the snow. You're just on the other side of the

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mountains from me. Yeah we love the snow as long

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as we're prepared with firewood and we're not.

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I'm not quite there yet either. So and we do

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a lot of our heating that way I love it. That's

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how we do too. Yeah so are you up in the mountains

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or down in the Denver metro area? So we're south

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of Denver about an hour in Monument. So we're

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about 7 ,500 feet. So we get snow a lot of times

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before the rest of the front range does. You

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are high up there. Now, have you been a beekeeper

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for a long time? About 11 years. About the same

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as I have, but I'm sure you know 10 times more

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than I do because you happen to work for Vito

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Pharma. Would you just tell us what your position

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is there and a very brief what the products are

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that you guys sell? Sure, I'm North American

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sales manager. So when I came on board, I was

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responsible for both the US and Canada. And about

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a year ago, I handed Canada off to some other

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folks that were one more fluent in French. And

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it was much easier for them to get in and out

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of those places that I couldn't get to. A lot

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of times there were conflicts with shows and

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conventions. We wanna make sure that we're. able

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to get as many places as possible. So now I'm

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just responsible for sales and management in

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the U .S. But you speak a little French because

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your company is based in France. Zero French,

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but I'm working on my Spanish. We have a really

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multicultural team, which makes it really, it

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makes it interesting for meetings, a lot of different

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accents and a lot of different backgrounds. So

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everybody brings their expertise to the table.

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And so I know a few words in many different languages,

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thanks to my colleagues, but fluent in none of

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those probably much to everyone chagrin i i english

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is you know my first and only real language truthfully

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and you sound like you're from the south somewhere

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i am i was born and raised in west virginia and

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i raised my kids in kentucky and we've only lived

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in colorado really for about five years yeah

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there's no colorado accent going on there hey

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tell us about uh veto you guys are the anti -viroa

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team What are your products for helping us fight

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Varroa? So Vito Pharma has been around now for

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about 44 or 45 years and their singular focus

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has always been really apiculture and the proliferation

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of the healthy honeybee population. And the strong

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focus is at this point, that may change in the

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future, but our strong focus at this point is

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really Varroa mite management. from testing to

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treatment. And we have a whole host of products

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that are currently available and that are coming

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down the pipeline to make that happen. One of

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the things that we talk about a ton on this show

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is testing. Test, test, test to know where you're

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at. We are very agnostic as far as treatment.

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We have some guests come on that are completely

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treatment -free beekeepers. We have some that

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are the opposite. We have some in between. And

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our belief is to educate everybody and then let

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them make their own decisions. So that's what

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we're doing here. We're not doing an infomercial

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for Veto, but really to just... Tell people I

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mean everybody knows how big of a problem Veroa

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is let's talk about another one of the solutions

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But before we talk about that I want to talk

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about Your Veroa easy check because I have to

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admit I haven't used it yet. I Have the old -fashioned

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court jar with the hardware cloth on top. Tell

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me how the easy check works So the easy check

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works similarly to a mason jar with hardware

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wire, which is how I started when I was testing

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my bees in the beginning. But you fill the container

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up with the correct amount of bees, approximately

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300 bees is what the measurements are. And there

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are some lines in the lid that let you know that

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you've put enough bees in there. It'll work three

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different ways, really, with an alcohol wash,

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which we would acknowledge that's industry standard.

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And really our personal preference, just because

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we don't have anything more scientific than that

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even though it's not super, super reliable in

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terms of science. It is the most reliable thing

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that we have on the market across the board.

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You can also do a sugar roll or a sugar shake.

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And then we also have marketed a CO2 injector

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which allows you to use CO2 to just kind of anesthetize

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the bees and the mites fall off after that and

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then the bees theoretically rejuvenate and you

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can put them back in the house. There's three

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different ways that you can use it. Alcohol,

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Sugar and co2 and we we love when folks test

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both before and after treatment So they can get

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first a baseline and then after treatment Measurements

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know. Okay. Did this my treatment work for me?

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Is this the right time of year to use the mic

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treatment and all the other variables that come

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into play when you know whether or not you're

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going to choose that same mic treatment next

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year at the same time or a different time let's

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get into that part of the topic because I believe

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one of the problems that a lot of beekeepers

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have is finding something that works for them

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and then using it every year, year in and year

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out. What is wrong with that scenario? We're

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creatures of habit. So it's always a tough conversation,

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especially with hard -headed folks. And I think

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that pretty much applies to all beekeepers. I

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think we all have a tendency to be a little hard

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-headed and myself included. So I'm not pointing

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the finger outward. I'm pointing it back at myself

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too. So just like with antibiotic resistance,

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some of the things that contribute to resistance

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are virtue of how the bacteria and the antibiotics

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work. But there's so much of that that is human

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contribution. And I say that because my background

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is in human medicine, human pharmaceuticals.

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So it's really, really kind of shaped how I think

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about an IPM. So the human contribution piece

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is you use a product when it's not needed. So

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kind of overkill, if you will, or using a product

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too long, or not using the product long enough,

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not using the product correctly. So there are

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a whole host of things that can just make the

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train come off the tracks. And all of those contribute

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overall to your mites developing a resistance

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to a particular miticide. So we really, I tease

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whenever I'm at shows and I'm talking to beekeepers.

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I hope that folks betray me to every other miticide

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that's on the market. Because I work at Veto

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Pharma and I get these products for free. So

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in theory, I would never have to pay for a mite

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treatment if I didn't value an IPM. And Veto

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Pharma really values the IPM. We know that there's

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room for almost every product that's on the market

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at the table. And when that happens, which is

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usually kind of a fantasy world for most of us,

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I've never seen consistently folks doing what

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theory says that you should do repeatedly. I've

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never seen folks doing that, whether it's on

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the commercial side or hobbyists. And never might

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be a strong word, they're a handful. I wish that

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that would be the takeaway from this whole discussion,

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no matter what products folks are using. in their

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hives. If you're testing before and after, then

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it makes your choices as to what you're using

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a whole lot simpler. Yeah, if you don't know

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that it's working. Right. And I've had some beekeepers

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in my area come to me and say, hey, I tested

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my mite load is really low. We're going into

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fall. What should I treat with now? And I say,

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don't. If you don't have mites. White treat.

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So that's another reason that we need to be doing

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our testing. I don't claim to be any kind of

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an expert on all of these chemicals. Tell me

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a little bit about Ametraz that's in your Apivar

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product, right? Correct. So Ametraz is a synthetic

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active ingredient. It's been an industry standard

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really for about 10 years. We launched Apivar

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about 10, 11 years ago now. And it's been an

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industry standard, but a lot of folks can also

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get it. from Mexico and other places in a two

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liter or one liter concentrated bottle and then

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they apply it in a different way. And a lot of

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times that's out of necessity. A lot of times

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it's cost containment. A lot of times it's a

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whole host of different reasons that it would

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take a whole other podcast to cover that. But

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amitraz is just an active ingredient that is

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known industry -wide to be kind of the cornerstone

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for mite treatment. Right. Now as we've all heard

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about and we've talked about a lot here about

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the bee die -off this winter, the winter of 2025,

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and how bad it was here in North America with

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over 1 .1 million colonies lost from commercial

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beekeepers, the researchers looking into it have

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determined one of the causes, and there's more

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than just one, is amitras resistance. It almost

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sounds like amitras worked so well that everybody

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just started leaning on it too hard. Would you

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say that's what happened? Where did this resistance

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all of a sudden come from? The same place that

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antibiotic resistance comes from. Misuse or overuse

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is one of the highest contributors. That's not

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to take away from the fact that there are true

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pockets of of resistance that have been found

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in Europe and in the U .S., but they're so few

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and far between that a blanket statement saying

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that there's a resistance to amitras as a whole.

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And when I say whole, I mean the beekeeping industry

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altogether. I think that that's probably a grossness,

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an overstatement. We are our own problems, really,

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at the end of the day. And you've come up with

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an APE of R 2 .0. Tell me about that. So ApoVar

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2 .0 is different enough from original ApoVar

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that we will be phasing out original ApoVar eventually.

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And we're working towards that currently. So

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original ApoVar has 3 .3 % amatras and ApoVar

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2 .0 has only 3%. However, each strip still contains

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about 500 milligrams per strip. The strips are

00:14:52.429 --> 00:14:54.730
easily manipulated. You can fold them over the

00:14:54.730 --> 00:14:57.009
top of the frames because not everybody uses.

00:14:57.230 --> 00:15:00.370
Langstroth Hobbs, we know that. Original Apivar

00:15:00.370 --> 00:15:04.549
has just amitraz and then a plastic powder that's

00:15:04.549 --> 00:15:09.129
combined to make a contact miticide strip. And

00:15:09.129 --> 00:15:12.049
the new strip, the Apivar 2 .0 strips, have three

00:15:12.049 --> 00:15:14.769
inactive ingredients and the amitraz. So one

00:15:14.769 --> 00:15:17.490
of those is the plastic, one of those is a release

00:15:17.490 --> 00:15:20.500
enhancer so that releases properly the way that

00:15:20.500 --> 00:15:22.779
we have designed it to release. And then another

00:15:22.779 --> 00:15:25.120
one is a moisture scavenger that helps maintain

00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:27.299
the stability of the ametraus strip while it's

00:15:27.299 --> 00:15:28.980
in the hive. And there's no withholding period.

00:15:29.059 --> 00:15:31.320
I guess that would probably be the biggest attraction

00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:33.360
to most folks is that you don't have to wait

00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.159
to put your honey supers back on. Let's talk

00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:38.440
about the things that we need to be careful of

00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:40.940
wherever you're getting your ametraus. As far

00:15:40.940 --> 00:15:43.960
as temperature, as far as honey supers, all these

00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:46.909
things, what do we need to watch out for? So

00:15:46.909 --> 00:15:48.970
it needs to be stored in a cool dry place once

00:15:48.970 --> 00:15:52.870
you open it. It needs to be used within pretty

00:15:52.870 --> 00:15:56.049
short order. It's good for two years from the

00:15:56.049 --> 00:15:59.090
manufacturing date on the package. If you're

00:15:59.090 --> 00:16:01.470
a beekeeper like me, we're getting into that

00:16:01.470 --> 00:16:04.690
favorite time of year, honey harvest. But it

00:16:04.690 --> 00:16:07.370
can be a lot of work. That's where Man Lake comes

00:16:07.370 --> 00:16:09.870
in. They have everything you need to make the

00:16:09.870 --> 00:16:13.870
job easier, cleaner, and more efficient. Removal

00:16:13.870 --> 00:16:17.769
aids, refractometers, uncapping tools, extractors,

00:16:18.049 --> 00:16:21.070
tanks, wax melters, even the jars and labels.

00:16:21.370 --> 00:16:23.669
Plus they have free shipping on glass containers.

00:16:24.149 --> 00:16:26.950
Whether you're a hobbyist with two hives or a

00:16:26.950 --> 00:16:29.950
full -blown commercial operation, Man Lake has

00:16:29.950 --> 00:16:33.490
it all. And don't forget your discount code MLBlove10.

00:16:33.529 --> 00:16:36.629
It's in the show notes. For $10 off your first

00:16:36.629 --> 00:16:39.629
$100 purchase. Most of the things to look out

00:16:39.629 --> 00:16:43.559
for are storage and Application to make sure

00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:45.940
that you're doing it correctly and it's it's

00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:47.600
honestly I think one of the easiest products

00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:50.139
to use for a new beekeeper So I don't think that

00:16:50.139 --> 00:16:52.240
there's a whole lot to it that you can mess up

00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:55.440
unless you just Kind of go cowboy or go rogue

00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.799
and decide not to follow the directions that

00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:00.200
are on the label every I think it's really straightforward

00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:02.580
I think it's really simple and a lot of times

00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:04.740
I think it might be one of the best things to

00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:06.720
suggest for a new beekeeper because it's hard

00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:09.759
to mess it up speaking of new beekeepers, let's

00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:13.059
say somebody is a buying a package of bees next

00:17:13.059 --> 00:17:16.460
spring. I think a lot of people assume when they

00:17:16.460 --> 00:17:19.779
get their bees, they're completely clean. There's

00:17:19.779 --> 00:17:22.240
going to be no mites. I'm starting from scratch

00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.819
with no mites. There's no resistance. I don't

00:17:24.819 --> 00:17:27.019
have to worry about any of that kind of stuff.

00:17:27.619 --> 00:17:30.400
Is that the case or is that a false assumption?

00:17:30.819 --> 00:17:33.380
I think like everything else in life, but I know

00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:35.319
I'm not trying to skirt your question, but I

00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:37.319
think it just depends. I think it's important

00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:39.559
to know where your bees are coming from. If you,

00:17:39.900 --> 00:17:43.130
if you live, Out this direction. There's a really

00:17:43.130 --> 00:17:45.250
good chance that if you're buying packages or

00:17:45.250 --> 00:17:47.170
nukes that they're coming out of California They're

00:17:47.170 --> 00:17:49.769
coming straight from almonds and that just depends

00:17:49.769 --> 00:17:53.730
on On the beekeeper what they use how they how

00:17:53.730 --> 00:17:57.950
they use the product if you are In the middle

00:17:57.950 --> 00:18:00.970
of Kansas and you're getting bees locally probably

00:18:00.970 --> 00:18:04.029
you can count on on Knowing your beekeeper. You

00:18:04.029 --> 00:18:07.519
can know the source so Again, it just depends.

00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:09.460
But those are all great questions to ask. Have

00:18:09.460 --> 00:18:11.000
they been treated? What have they been treated

00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:13.319
with? Where are they coming from? Is it coming

00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:15.440
from a commercial operation? Are these local

00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:19.039
bees? So there are just a ton of questions and

00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:20.559
the list just gets longer and longer. You know,

00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:22.799
the longer you do this, the more you realize

00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.400
I have way more questions than answers. So my

00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:27.460
list of questions just continues to get longer

00:18:27.460 --> 00:18:30.319
and longer. That's perfect. The more questions,

00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:32.599
the better. I guess the point I was trying to

00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:36.839
get at, I have found. You can buy a package or

00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:40.099
a nuke that's come from somewhere else or even

00:18:40.099 --> 00:18:43.819
locally to you that already has mites in it and

00:18:43.819 --> 00:18:47.920
So don't assume that these are clean that they

00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:50.039
don't need to be treated or that they don't have

00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:52.579
any resistance Or that you know, they don't have

00:18:52.579 --> 00:18:55.039
any other disease or some something like that

00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:58.279
because they can hopefully they don't But they

00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:02.769
often can Sure, in a lot of times, in a commercial

00:19:02.769 --> 00:19:04.849
operation, when the bees are ready to come from

00:19:04.849 --> 00:19:09.230
California to us in the form of packages and

00:19:09.230 --> 00:19:13.390
nukes, it's a whole process of just shaking bees

00:19:13.390 --> 00:19:16.789
into packages. So to assume anything about those

00:19:16.789 --> 00:19:18.309
bees, you don't assume that they're queen right.

00:19:18.410 --> 00:19:20.269
You don't assume that they've had enough to eat.

00:19:20.309 --> 00:19:22.349
You don't assume that they have no mites. You

00:19:22.349 --> 00:19:25.089
have to treat it just like you would any other

00:19:25.089 --> 00:19:28.279
beehive. And if you get a package and there's

00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:30.759
only 10 ,000 bees in it, nobody wants to kill

00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:33.079
300 bees immediately. And I don't necessarily

00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:36.500
think that that should be everyone's approach

00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:38.420
right out of the gate, especially if you are

00:19:38.420 --> 00:19:40.740
getting bees. Some places it's warmer than others

00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:42.859
and you can get your packages in February, March,

00:19:42.940 --> 00:19:46.579
April. Here sometimes we don't see package deliveries

00:19:46.579 --> 00:19:49.400
until June. And again, it'll just depend on your

00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:51.500
geography. And one of the best pieces of advice

00:19:51.500 --> 00:19:55.039
that I can give. anybody who's a backyard beekeeper

00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.859
or a hobbyist or even a sideliner, growing into

00:19:57.859 --> 00:20:01.799
a sideliner, is apprentice yourself to the key

00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:04.839
opinion leaders in your area. Because I started

00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:07.079
my beekeeping journey in the Midwest, in the

00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:09.420
South, and when I came here it was like starting

00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:12.880
over. Beekeeping at 7 ,500 feet is not at all

00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:17.079
like keeping bees at sea level. So it's important

00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:21.930
to know that the word's always and never. don't

00:20:21.930 --> 00:20:25.690
usually apply to anything, but especially beekeeping.

00:20:26.430 --> 00:20:28.390
Absolutely. What kinds of things have you learned

00:20:28.390 --> 00:20:31.430
for those of us that haven't kept bees at 7 ,500

00:20:31.430 --> 00:20:34.410
feet? Still might be interesting to hear. Oh,

00:20:34.410 --> 00:20:37.529
gosh. Well, the year we moved here, it snowed

00:20:37.529 --> 00:20:40.769
two feet September the 8th. So this time, five

00:20:40.769 --> 00:20:42.849
years ago, we were getting pounded with snow.

00:20:43.049 --> 00:20:45.789
I had strips in my hives and I had just started

00:20:45.789 --> 00:20:49.089
my treatment because back in Kentucky, where

00:20:49.089 --> 00:20:51.650
we moved from, we could still be getting a fall

00:20:51.650 --> 00:20:55.990
harvest in September or October. So we knew that

00:20:55.990 --> 00:20:57.369
it was gonna be colder, we knew that it was gonna

00:20:57.369 --> 00:20:59.710
snow, but the day before that we were fishing

00:20:59.710 --> 00:21:02.829
in 80 degree weather. So it was a shock to us.

00:21:03.490 --> 00:21:06.250
So always be prepared to pivot, always try to

00:21:06.250 --> 00:21:10.509
get ahead of the curve. It's really easy as a

00:21:10.509 --> 00:21:12.009
beekeeper and I've done it, I've been guilty

00:21:12.009 --> 00:21:15.029
myself. Summer gets away from you, and unless

00:21:15.029 --> 00:21:16.470
you're a commercial beekeeper, and it can get

00:21:16.470 --> 00:21:19.859
away from them too, but. If you're just a hobbyist

00:21:19.859 --> 00:21:22.359
and you have kids and sports or you have weddings

00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:24.940
or vacations planned, it's really easy for summer

00:21:24.940 --> 00:21:26.960
to get away from you. And I've learned that you

00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:29.599
have to be much more diligent. I thought whenever

00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:31.900
I started my beekeeping journey that journaling

00:21:31.900 --> 00:21:34.720
was silly, and I've learned that journaling is

00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.460
not silly. I need to know exactly what's happening.

00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:40.279
And if I have it at my fingertips, it's much

00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:43.359
easier to reference that. So I've learned to.

00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:45.839
try to get ahead of the game faster and more

00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:48.599
consistently and to document everything because

00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:52.039
my memory isn't what I would like for it to be,

00:21:52.420 --> 00:21:55.319
unfortunately. I think we're all in that boat.

00:21:55.940 --> 00:21:58.059
Join the club. What kinds of things do you do

00:21:58.059 --> 00:22:02.500
to prepare your views for winter? It's almost

00:22:02.500 --> 00:22:06.259
completely centers around mic control. I know

00:22:06.259 --> 00:22:09.940
that It's really easy to get caught up in, especially

00:22:09.940 --> 00:22:12.420
if you're a hobbyist and you don't necessarily

00:22:12.420 --> 00:22:16.960
look at your beekeeping journey as a business

00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:20.619
venture. And sometimes we see them as a hobbyist.

00:22:20.619 --> 00:22:23.859
A lot of times my beekeepers will see them as

00:22:23.859 --> 00:22:28.039
pets or the girls or the ladies. And the real

00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:30.960
difference in a hobbyist and a commercial beekeeper

00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:34.059
is that it's just business to a commercial beekeeper.

00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:37.569
They don't have time to gingerly put the the

00:22:37.569 --> 00:22:40.250
honey supers back on and avoid crushing the bees.

00:22:40.390 --> 00:22:43.990
Sometimes the bees die. And hobbyists are more

00:22:43.990 --> 00:22:48.349
inclined to go slower and to avoid trying to

00:22:48.349 --> 00:22:51.190
kill the bees. Do you use any kind of insulation

00:22:51.190 --> 00:22:53.150
or anything like that on your hives? I know a

00:22:53.150 --> 00:22:55.950
lot of people do wrap their bees. I don't here

00:22:55.950 --> 00:22:59.109
in Colorado. I never did in the Midwest and in

00:22:59.109 --> 00:23:01.329
the South because our winters are really, really

00:23:01.329 --> 00:23:04.170
mild. And that's not to say that there's not

00:23:04.170 --> 00:23:08.410
need or room. Some of my Canadian friends, some

00:23:08.410 --> 00:23:10.950
of the folks up north in the Dakotas, those guys

00:23:10.950 --> 00:23:12.970
I know do rap sometimes. Sometimes they have

00:23:12.970 --> 00:23:16.089
their bees in an indoor facility, but bees have

00:23:16.089 --> 00:23:18.650
been in existence way before we decided to put

00:23:18.650 --> 00:23:21.869
them in a box and then in our backyard. They

00:23:21.869 --> 00:23:24.970
are quite capable of making it through the winter.

00:23:25.490 --> 00:23:27.509
They're quite capable of keeping themselves warm.

00:23:28.490 --> 00:23:31.470
They've been doing that well before we got involved.

00:23:31.869 --> 00:23:34.109
When you consider the human contributions to

00:23:34.109 --> 00:23:36.710
that, if you put them in a box and you're feeding

00:23:36.710 --> 00:23:40.650
them sugar water and it's freezing outside, that's

00:23:40.650 --> 00:23:42.950
not gonna work for your bees. Or if you put them

00:23:42.950 --> 00:23:44.829
in a box and then you take all of their honey

00:23:44.829 --> 00:23:46.890
and they're left with no food all winter and

00:23:46.890 --> 00:23:49.150
now they have no place to go, they are going

00:23:49.150 --> 00:23:51.710
to starve to death. So that's when weather really

00:23:51.710 --> 00:23:53.910
makes a difference, at least in my experience.

00:23:54.250 --> 00:23:56.890
But I sometimes will build a windbreak because

00:23:56.890 --> 00:23:59.539
it does get pretty windy here in Monument. But

00:23:59.539 --> 00:24:01.160
aside from that, I make sure that I don't take

00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:04.220
all other resources and I make sure that their

00:24:04.220 --> 00:24:07.079
mite loads are as close to nonexistent as I can

00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:09.079
get because from the first snow, which could

00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:11.779
be September the 8th, to snow melt, which could

00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:14.039
be June of the following year, that's a long

00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:17.740
time to try to live on just a few frames of honey.

00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:19.619
So I try to make sure they have at least a box

00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:21.099
and a half of honey going through the winter.

00:24:21.779 --> 00:24:24.940
All right. Let's have a little fun. You've been

00:24:24.940 --> 00:24:26.740
beekeeping long enough. You have to have some

00:24:26.740 --> 00:24:29.940
kind of a crazy or embarrassing or painful story

00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:32.140
that you can tell us about. Anything come to

00:24:32.140 --> 00:24:34.880
mind? I have one that probably covers all three

00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:39.619
of them. I used to teach like a beekeeping 101

00:24:39.619 --> 00:24:42.519
at the local library back in Kentucky. And one

00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:44.960
of my students quickly became one of my friends.

00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:49.599
She was quite adept and one time had asked me

00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:51.619
if I would check on one of her hives while she

00:24:51.619 --> 00:24:54.220
was on vacation. I was glad to do it. I was glad

00:24:54.220 --> 00:24:58.740
to help. No matter what the books say, we don't

00:24:58.740 --> 00:25:00.819
always do that, right? We always tease that the

00:25:00.819 --> 00:25:02.619
bees didn't read the books. Well, sometimes even

00:25:02.619 --> 00:25:04.500
when the beekeeper reads the books, we don't

00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:06.900
follow the rules. And I was checking on one of

00:25:06.900 --> 00:25:09.980
her hives and I'd been in this hive with her

00:25:09.980 --> 00:25:17.059
previously. It was unexpectedly very hot. In

00:25:17.059 --> 00:25:19.579
just about a three week period, it had gone from

00:25:19.579 --> 00:25:23.839
just an easy hive to inspect to really hot. And

00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:26.380
I hadn't zipped my veil up all the way, and one

00:25:26.380 --> 00:25:29.119
immediately got in my veil and stung me on this

00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:32.059
really tender area under your chin. And I did

00:25:32.059 --> 00:25:33.740
exactly what you're not supposed to do, which

00:25:33.740 --> 00:25:38.480
is rip my veil off. And it was just a human reaction.

00:25:38.599 --> 00:25:42.559
I knew better. And within, I don't know, a minute,

00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:46.480
these bees were all over me. I mean. I've never

00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.359
experienced anything like it. They were all over

00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:52.079
me. I probably had 10 or 15 bee stings all on

00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:56.200
my head and neck area. My son was just up on

00:25:56.200 --> 00:26:00.299
a little hill not too far away by the lake and

00:26:00.299 --> 00:26:02.500
there was nothing for me to do except head towards

00:26:02.500 --> 00:26:04.500
the car. But as I did, now I'm bringing all these

00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:08.380
angry bees with me to him. So I'm trying to yell

00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:10.940
ahead, you know, get in the car. And at seven

00:26:10.940 --> 00:26:12.700
or eight years old, he was, I think he thought

00:26:12.700 --> 00:26:15.680
I was dying. So he was pretty scared and then

00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:18.359
when I get to the car, I'm not allergic to bees,

00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:22.559
one or two or three stings at a time that I know

00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:26.019
of. But with 15 or 20 stings and my face was

00:26:26.019 --> 00:26:28.099
swelling quickly, like from here to my neck,

00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:30.200
it looked like kind of a turkey, like I had no

00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:33.500
neck. It was just swollen full of inflammation

00:26:33.500 --> 00:26:37.059
and the local hospital was 25 miles away. So

00:26:37.059 --> 00:26:38.700
I called a couple of girlfriends and I'm like,

00:26:38.700 --> 00:26:41.880
listen, if you don't hear from me in pretty short

00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:44.220
order, you should probably. come looking for

00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:46.480
me and they knew where I was. So they were, they

00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:50.079
would have to like reverse engineer, um, the

00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:52.240
route to get to me, but I'm not going to lie.

00:26:52.339 --> 00:26:55.180
I was concerned. I was concerned. My son was

00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:57.279
concerned. I think my friends were concerned.

00:26:57.299 --> 00:26:59.380
It turns out to be that just, you know, some

00:26:59.380 --> 00:27:03.039
Benadryl and a good rest helped, but I didn't

00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:05.619
look like myself for at least a week. I looked

00:27:05.619 --> 00:27:09.640
pretty deformed. It was my fault. I knew better.

00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:11.740
You know, it wasn't my first year. We always

00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:14.880
claim it's our fault. Can't be the bee's fault.

00:27:16.500 --> 00:27:19.039
Even though they were hot that day. Anyway, that

00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.339
sounds scary. You don't have a picture of yourself

00:27:21.339 --> 00:27:24.380
all swollen up, do you? I don't. I didn't take

00:27:24.380 --> 00:27:27.380
one. No, but by the time I got to the car and

00:27:27.380 --> 00:27:30.299
got my veil off, my hair was just completely...

00:27:30.299 --> 00:27:31.700
I looked like I'd just gotten out of the shower.

00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:35.259
It was... I was a sweaty mess. Okay, I thought

00:27:35.259 --> 00:27:36.940
you were gonna say you ran and jumped in the

00:27:36.940 --> 00:27:40.859
lake. No, but, you know, if I had been thinking

00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:43.450
at all, I might have. Isn't it funny the things

00:27:43.450 --> 00:27:46.230
that we do when we panic? It was yeah, it was

00:27:46.230 --> 00:27:48.609
it was sheer panic We had somebody on the show

00:27:48.609 --> 00:27:51.250
a while back that when he was a new beekeeper

00:27:51.250 --> 00:27:54.509
Had something sort of like that happen where

00:27:54.509 --> 00:27:57.609
one bee got inside his veil and that's never

00:27:57.609 --> 00:27:59.789
happened to you That's a whole new experience

00:27:59.789 --> 00:28:02.789
when you actually see the back of the bee instead

00:28:02.789 --> 00:28:06.369
of the underside of the bee Yeah, and and usually

00:28:06.369 --> 00:28:08.250
they're not coming for you. They actually want

00:28:08.250 --> 00:28:13.130
to get out of the veil. But anyway This guy freaked

00:28:13.130 --> 00:28:15.089
out a little bit differently than you, though.

00:28:15.109 --> 00:28:18.710
He started hitting at it like this until he finally

00:28:18.710 --> 00:28:22.430
gave himself a bloody nose and a fat lip and

00:28:22.430 --> 00:28:26.430
did more damage than the bee would have. But

00:28:26.430 --> 00:28:28.849
anyway, glad you're okay. Yeah, that's a little

00:28:28.849 --> 00:28:32.410
terrifying. Yeah, I made it out unscathed minus

00:28:32.410 --> 00:28:35.549
the 15 or 20 bee stings. But that's a lot of

00:28:35.549 --> 00:28:37.970
bee stings at once. A lot of bee stings. Yeah,

00:28:37.970 --> 00:28:40.359
I'm still not allergic. Knock on wood. All right,

00:28:40.420 --> 00:28:42.839
before I let you go, I'm just curious. I know

00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:46.940
you work with all kinds of beekeepers. As far

00:28:46.940 --> 00:28:50.579
as working with commercial beekeepers, is there

00:28:50.579 --> 00:28:52.559
anything that you've learned from them that you

00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:55.619
might want to share with hobbyists and sideliners?

00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:58.019
One of the things I think commercial beekeepers

00:28:58.019 --> 00:29:02.680
are so much better at than we are is that they

00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:08.890
see it as just business. the finances of it to

00:29:08.890 --> 00:29:11.150
how they take care of the bees so they don't

00:29:11.150 --> 00:29:13.690
coddle the bees. I'm not saying that we need

00:29:13.690 --> 00:29:16.569
to be abusive to the bees and none of my beekeepers

00:29:16.569 --> 00:29:20.349
are that I've ever met. But to say I don't want

00:29:20.349 --> 00:29:22.869
to kill 300 of my bees to do an alcohol wash

00:29:22.869 --> 00:29:25.710
because that just seems brutal. Having a hive

00:29:25.710 --> 00:29:29.410
die through the winter is much more brutal and

00:29:29.410 --> 00:29:31.190
it's heartbreaking if you only have one hive

00:29:31.190 --> 00:29:33.990
or you only have two hives or no matter how many

00:29:33.990 --> 00:29:36.839
hives you have really but If you wake up in spring

00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:39.900
and you have no halves left because of your own

00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:41.559
negligence, and that's really what it is. If

00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:44.200
you're not testing before and after and if you're

00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:48.160
not treating, if you, and I know some folks that

00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:51.640
do treatment free very successfully, but that's

00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:53.500
not what I would advise for a first or second

00:29:53.500 --> 00:29:55.339
or third year beekeeper. That's something that's

00:29:55.339 --> 00:29:58.539
well into what I think is a journey where you've

00:29:58.539 --> 00:30:01.359
gained enough knowledge to manage that. And you

00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:03.980
have a much different lifestyle than a commercial

00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:06.329
beekeeper. To answer your question, I think that

00:30:06.329 --> 00:30:09.130
we have to look at it as a business because it

00:30:09.130 --> 00:30:11.769
is an investment. If you have one hive going

00:30:11.769 --> 00:30:15.130
into the winter, you might have $750, $800, $900

00:30:15.130 --> 00:30:19.109
invested in this hive. So 300 bees dying in a

00:30:19.109 --> 00:30:21.710
mite wash. Well, it sounds harsh and it sounds

00:30:21.710 --> 00:30:25.390
brutal. It's much more cost conducive to approach

00:30:25.390 --> 00:30:27.809
beekeeping that way than to buy a new package

00:30:27.809 --> 00:30:31.170
in the spring. So if commercial beekeepers could

00:30:31.170 --> 00:30:34.089
teach us anything is that it has to be just business

00:30:34.089 --> 00:30:36.769
because you take the emotional piece out of it

00:30:36.769 --> 00:30:39.670
and then you, I think you're much more successful

00:30:39.670 --> 00:30:43.670
if you're not so concerned about the here and

00:30:43.670 --> 00:30:45.950
now. You have to be thinking three and four and

00:30:45.950 --> 00:30:48.170
six months ahead and that's how you approach

00:30:48.170 --> 00:30:50.470
your treatment and your testing. I think commercial

00:30:50.470 --> 00:30:53.490
beekeepers are so much better at that than we

00:30:53.490 --> 00:30:56.250
are as hobbyists. I like to try to get inside

00:30:56.250 --> 00:30:59.059
the mind of the bees too. and think what would

00:30:59.059 --> 00:31:01.500
they do if they truly understood the situation.

00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:05.000
I think they would send 300 bees out and jump

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:08.779
in your tester because that's what they do, right?

00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:10.960
They have guard bees that are willing to risk

00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:15.359
their life to protect the hive and during the

00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.259
busy time of the year you may have a thousand

00:31:18.259 --> 00:31:22.319
bees emerge in one day anyway. 300 isn't that

00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:24.839
many when you look at it that way. Yeah, if a

00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:28.519
queen can light 1 ,000, 1 ,500 bees in a day,

00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:33.019
the 300 really is impacting her production. It's

00:31:33.019 --> 00:31:37.019
not at all. And at the shows where I am, not

00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:38.599
the commercial shows, but the ones where I'm

00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:41.960
talking to hobbyists and backyard beekeepers,

00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:45.740
that's the thing that I get all the time. Or

00:31:45.740 --> 00:31:47.579
they'll treat before, excuse me, they'll test

00:31:47.579 --> 00:31:50.779
before, or they'll test after, but they won't

00:31:50.779 --> 00:31:53.579
test both. I'll give you an example because I

00:31:53.579 --> 00:31:55.920
think this is really important. I had a beekeeper,

00:31:56.500 --> 00:31:58.519
a very, very knowledgeable, very experienced

00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:01.240
beekeeper message me not long ago. And they had

00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:03.819
some hives that their counts were really high,

00:32:03.980 --> 00:32:09.380
40s, 50s, 60s. And at that point, it's a ticking

00:32:09.380 --> 00:32:12.700
time bomb. But they use Apivar. And they tested

00:32:12.700 --> 00:32:15.180
for efficacy midway through the treatment period

00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:18.000
and found that their might loads were still really

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.960
high, 10, 12, 20. To put it in real world terms,

00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:24.539
you have asked a product to work in a situation

00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:28.700
that was unthinkable. Ape of R is an Ape of R

00:32:28.700 --> 00:32:32.740
2 .0, even though it works faster. You get the

00:32:32.740 --> 00:32:35.680
maximum result at about week three. So it's a

00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:37.519
little bit faster than Ape of R, original Ape

00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:42.980
of R, but. If you have a beehive that has miteloads

00:32:42.980 --> 00:32:46.039
that are that high, a slow release product, which

00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:50.480
is what Apivar was intended to be, that's not

00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:53.839
your best option because you have a hive that's

00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:58.279
ready to implode already. So he was very frustrated

00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:00.559
that Apivar didn't work the way that he said,

00:33:00.819 --> 00:33:02.460
the way that we have said that it would work

00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:05.460
and so on and so forth. But my message to him

00:33:05.460 --> 00:33:08.519
was it did work. It worked really, really well.

00:33:08.619 --> 00:33:10.440
It just didn't work in a way that's going to

00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:11.839
get your beehive through the winter. Because

00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:14.319
if you go from 40 or 50 mites down to 10 or 12

00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:17.259
mites in a four week period, the product's working.

00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:20.019
But you can't test in the middle of it to see

00:33:20.019 --> 00:33:23.759
what the efficacy is because a long release treatment

00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:27.500
requires all of that time to do the work that

00:33:27.500 --> 00:33:30.400
it was designed to do. So if you don't test before

00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:33.779
and you experience a product or what you think

00:33:33.779 --> 00:33:36.720
is a product failure, is it really a product

00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:41.420
failure? Or was your mite load so high that no

00:33:41.420 --> 00:33:44.240
product would have worked? And a lot of beekeepers,

00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:46.559
because they don't want to kill their bees, they'll

00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:48.140
say, well, we know we have mites, so we're just

00:33:48.140 --> 00:33:50.440
going to treat anyway. And I get that. I do.

00:33:50.500 --> 00:33:52.619
And to be honest, that was how I approached my

00:33:52.619 --> 00:33:55.339
first year or two in beekeeping. I don't want

00:33:55.339 --> 00:33:57.440
to kill my bees. I know that I need to treat.

00:33:57.599 --> 00:33:59.700
I know that I have mites. I'm just going to use

00:33:59.700 --> 00:34:02.960
something. And the first year, I started with

00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:05.839
three halves. I used Apigard. Two of my hives

00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:08.539
died. I hated Apogard. I thought Apogard was

00:34:08.539 --> 00:34:10.519
the worst product in the world. Fast forward

00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:13.800
three or four more years. I love Apogard. Apogard

00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:16.179
is part of my IPM. I've just learned that I was

00:34:16.179 --> 00:34:19.099
the problem, not the product, not the bees, but

00:34:19.099 --> 00:34:21.340
that I didn't test it properly. I didn't treat

00:34:21.340 --> 00:34:24.000
correctly. And at all, all fingers point back

00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.539
to me. When a first or second third year beekeeper

00:34:26.539 --> 00:34:28.760
tell me, you know, my hives died. It's hard to

00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:31.400
say this, but it's almost always unequivocally

00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:34.400
the beekeeper's fault. It was my fault. It was

00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:36.480
the fault of a lot of my colleagues who started

00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:40.340
in a very similar fashion that I did. So for

00:34:40.340 --> 00:34:44.860
something to be the fault of a product or other

00:34:44.860 --> 00:34:48.619
circumstances outside the hive is much less likely

00:34:48.619 --> 00:34:52.579
than it is a beekeeper problem, truthfully. And

00:34:52.579 --> 00:34:54.400
that's hard to say. It's hard to hear. That's

00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:56.440
one of the things that I've learned from speaking

00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:59.940
with commercial beekeepers is they don't wait

00:34:59.940 --> 00:35:03.059
until fall to treat. They're testing clear back

00:35:03.059 --> 00:35:06.760
in July and they're and they're treating in July

00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:10.519
if they need to and August and September. So

00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:14.300
that come October or November, you know, whenever

00:35:14.300 --> 00:35:16.800
they're buttoning up for winter, the mites aren't

00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:19.980
a problem. They're not trying to go from a 40

00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:24.570
to a six. you know, overnight, which is just,

00:35:24.590 --> 00:35:26.730
as you're talking about, isn't reasonable for

00:35:26.730 --> 00:35:29.849
any kind of treatment. Right. So start early.

00:35:30.329 --> 00:35:32.769
Hey, I'm as guilty of this stuff as anybody.

00:35:33.190 --> 00:35:36.409
We all are. Start early. Start early and consistent.

00:35:36.510 --> 00:35:38.590
I have some folks that are testing five and six

00:35:38.590 --> 00:35:41.650
times a year. That's, you know, thousands of

00:35:41.650 --> 00:35:43.630
bees at the end of the day. It's better than

00:35:43.630 --> 00:35:46.289
hundreds of thousands of bees, which is what's

00:35:46.289 --> 00:35:49.690
going to happen if you don't test. Absolutely.

00:35:49.969 --> 00:35:52.250
Thanks for all your wisdom, Amber. I've really

00:35:52.250 --> 00:35:55.010
enjoyed it. If anybody wants to reach out to

00:35:55.010 --> 00:35:58.650
you, I'll put a link to Veto Pharma in the show

00:35:58.650 --> 00:36:02.610
notes. And hey, keep in touch. Thank you. Thank

00:36:02.610 --> 00:36:04.550
you. And if anybody has questions, please provide

00:36:04.550 --> 00:36:07.289
my email address. They're welcome to reach out.

00:36:07.550 --> 00:36:09.610
Will do. All right, Amber, take care. Thanks,

00:36:09.690 --> 00:36:15.230
you too. Thanks for joining us on Be Love Beekeeping

00:36:15.230 --> 00:36:18.530
presented by Man Lake. If you like this content

00:36:18.530 --> 00:36:20.989
I hope you'll share it with a friend, follow

00:36:20.989 --> 00:36:24.329
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00:36:24.329 --> 00:36:27.010
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00:36:27.190 --> 00:36:29.989
Also, just a shout out to Vita B Health for their

00:36:29.989 --> 00:36:33.389
support, we appreciate them. Vita's Varroa Control

00:36:33.389 --> 00:36:36.369
range of products includes Apistan, Apigard,

00:36:36.829 --> 00:36:40.190
and now Varroxan Extended Release Oxalic Acid

00:36:40.190 --> 00:36:43.670
Strips. Thanks guys, and remember, if you're

00:36:43.670 --> 00:36:46.349
not just in it for the honey or the money, you're

00:36:46.349 --> 00:36:48.650
in it for the love. See you next week.