350 Stings On His First Day Beekeeping

WEBVTT

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May I have your attention, please? The following

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is not the real Jeff Fox release. If you have

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ever referred to a presidential election as a

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super seizure, you might be a beekeeper. If you

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do more splits than a gymnast, You might be a

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beekeeper. If you wash your bee suit once a year,

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whether it needs it or not, you definitely might

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be a beekeeper. Welcome, welcome to Be Love Beekeeping

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presented by our good friends at Man Lake. Today

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our guest is John Smith from Oklahoma and we'll

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be discussing his experience in both commercial

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and hobby beekeeping, how he got started, and

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his beekeeping in many different parts of the

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country. But before we jump into that, a listener

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recently sent in his wild and crazy beekeeping

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story that really cracked me up. Some of us can

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maybe relate to this. He's a little too shy to

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come on the podcast, so please bear with me as

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I read it. It's pretty long, but here we go.

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Okay, just to give you a little bit of background

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here, we're going to find so many mistakes going

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on in this story. The first of one being he and

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his wife live next door to their in -laws. Okay,

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so here's what's going on. The in -laws got into

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beekeeping. He's been into beekeeping much longer

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than them. He knows a lot more about it than

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they do. They have lost hives over winter and

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there's only one hive left between the two of

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them. The in -laws think they know it all. They

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think he knows nothing. All right, there's your

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setup. Mother's Day weekend, he was thinking,

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I have got to get into my hive. I've got to see

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what's going on there, check on it. But he just

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hadn't got around to it yet. And at the dinner

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table with the in -laws, mother -in -law says,

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oh, why don't we check on the bees tonight? He

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thought, that sounds really strange. You shouldn't

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go into a bee hive at night. That never happens.

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and nobody talks about it again for a while so

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later on in the evening he puts the kids to bed

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and then at nine o 'clock he gets a call saying

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hey we're going to check your hive come on over

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oh he's thinking this is a big mistake but he

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grabs his veil he grabs his big gloves and he

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runs over he doesn't take time to get a smoker

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or his full b -suit now in his words yep they're

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in my hive father -in -law with a veil, mother

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-in -law has nothing on for protective clothing,

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but of course she wasn't going to be handling

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the frames. I look around for their supplies.

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No smoker anywhere. I think to myself this is

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going to be fun. The feeder is still on and they're

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taking it off to get to the frames. They get

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one frame out and check it. The comb is building

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out away from the foundation in a way that they

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don't like. I say something about it but they

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ignore me and then comment how their bees hadn't

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done that because they used wax foundation. They

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put it back in without fixing the comb. I just

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let them keep walking into their disaster. They

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pull another frame closer to the center. it looks

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good has some brood my mother -in -law is all

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high and mighty i don't like how little brood

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there is that's not good so this is just the

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first of five frames that had come with the nuke

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so it's fine they pull another one from the outside

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but on the other side to see the build out and

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i'm all thinking good they're going to rush this

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because they can tell the bees are getting agitated

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I've now got bees checking me out, starting to

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get mad, and I'm off to the side. They put the

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frame back in. My mother -in -law wants to check

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for brood in the middle. I think, uh -oh, this

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is going to be the last straw for the bees. They

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pull up the frame. My mother -in -law gets in

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there. No veil. pointing her flashlight to see

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them. She says the brood looks good now, but

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I can see the bees start to swarm angrily and

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they're starting to land on her. Suddenly she

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is backing away from the hive. My father -in

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-law, who I think can tell something is wrong

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with the hive's behavior, now is yelling that

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he can't see to pull the frame as she left him

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with no light. I'm told angrily by my father

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-in -law, you need to get in there. You have

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a veil and gloves. Now this is only because I

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was semi -prepared. I grab the flashlight from

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her, step in, hold the light knowing full well

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what they've done and that I'm gonna get stung.

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I watch in horror as my father -in -law insists

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on pulling another frame to check for brood and

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pollen. I can see him starting to get stung in

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earnest now. No smoke to mask the smell pheromones

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telling the other bees to attack. I know this

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is only going to escalate. I've got them landing

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on me, trying to find flesh to sting. I have

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a good two inch gap between my gloves and my

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short sleeves, so keeping the light steady for

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him is not my priority as I try to keep from

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getting that first sting, which I know will compound

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quickly without smoke. He puts the frame back

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in while yelling about light. I finally just

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tell him to close the hive. He puts the top feeder

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back on. I start casting my eyes about looking

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frantically for whoever has the syrup to refill

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it. My brother -in -law, who I didn't know was

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there, has run off with it. Wanting to not make

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this a complete waste, I chase him down, then

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risk going back in to refill the feeder, which

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really was all I originally thought we were going

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to do. But alas, that doesn't help when they're

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already out of the hive trying to sting us. I

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fill the feeder about two -thirds full as I can

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tell the bees are in full attack mode now. I

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can see my father -in -law has a half dozen stings

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already but puts the lid fully on while smacking

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at his exposed skin and screaming about how the

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bees have gotten inside his veil. Turning to

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run, I realize a bee is under my veil also. I

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can feel it climbing on my nose. While I'm booking

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it away from the hive, I swipe away the bee and

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feel the veil catch and roll the bee. The buzz

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has stopped. I got her. I think triumphantly,

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knowing that they're going to follow more intently

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if I get that first sting. Thinking that the

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idiots and onlookers would realize that they

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need to vacate the area also, I don't say anything

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too assertive for them to leave the area as I

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approach. The bee is back! I hadn't killed it

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after all. I smack my nose, knocking my glasses

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and veil off, but it heroically stings me right

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next to my nose and way too close to my eye.

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My mother -in -law is now screaming about one

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in her hair, but she and the onlookers have stopped

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some 15 feet from the hive to check each other

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for bees. I tell my wife to get farther away

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and to follow me. She's now decided it's a good

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time to tell me that I need to make sure I got

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all the bees off of me before going back into

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the house. My in -law's house is up the hill

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in the other direction, so I assume that they've

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listened and left. At 40 feet I'm still feeling

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two or three bees on me. I feel another one land

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and it instantly stings me on the jawline. I

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arrive back at my deck which has a good light

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on and check myself for bees. Suddenly my three

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-year -old having heard that we were checking

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the bees comes out of the back door having changed

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out of his jammies and into shorts and a t -shirt

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he announces triumphantly he has come to help

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with the bees. He had received explicit instructions

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to stay in bed as the bees would likely get really

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mad. I send him tersely back into the house,

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knowing I more than likely have some on me. He's

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now crying because he wants to help and I won't

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let him. Getting him through the door, I return

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to inspect myself. He now has his nose pressed

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to the glass, sobbing, so I ask my wife to comfort

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him as I kill another bee before I get stung

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by it. Disposing of yet another bee, I cast about

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myself looking for her but she is nowhere to

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be found. Yep, she's still back with the others

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standing 15 feet from the hive and swatting themselves.

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Convinced I'm now bee free, I go inside the house

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to console my son and get him to start walking

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back to bed. When my wife comes in, five minutes

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later, I rhetorically ask, where did you go?

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Dumbfounded, she replies, We were all checking

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each other for bees. I had gotten stung farther

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away from the hive than where they had been standing.

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My father -in -law got at least a dozen stings.

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I'm sure most of those after we had closed the

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hive. A few got his face too. All right, final

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chapter here. Later that night they called and

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told us how they now believe in smoke and they

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were going to double check. on their impression

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that night was maybe not the best time to check

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the hive. Also mentioning to my wife that they

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were looking to buy at least one full bee suit

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now. Okay, lots of lessons learned. Now, what

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do you say we get to our guest? I'd like to welcome

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to the show today John Smith, and that is your

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real name, isn't it John? Yes it is. Thank God

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it's not John Doe. And you're in Oklahoma. And

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so, hey, welcome to the Midwest, everybody. Yep,

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Oklahoma, south of Oklahoma City. Do you have

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kind of crazy winters there as far as beekeeping?

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Overall, it doesn't really get all that cold

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mid teens. And, you know, we might get lows down

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to just below zero, but very rarely. is that

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the case? Unfortunately, we get ice. So overall,

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the winters aren't terrible, but you got to deal

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with the ice. So. Yeah, they do sound pretty

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rough. Hey, when you and I were talking earlier,

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I found it interesting that you had done beekeeping

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in a number of different locations, including

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Texas, Arizona, Florida, Wisconsin, Minnesota.

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now Oklahoma. And I believe, correct me if I'm

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wrong, you worked for a commercial beekeeper

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for a time? Yeah, so I worked for a commercial

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beekeeper about two years after I started beekeeping

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in 2010. and I worked for a person who he had

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approximately 10 ,000 hives and I got to learn

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the kind of the pollination routes and kind of

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the commercial style of beekeeping. Well the

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first thing that I want to learn from you and

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we're going to talk about all kinds of topics

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today by the way including wild and crazy beekeeping

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stories that's where you and I first met. But

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I'd like to hear what it's like when you're working

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for a commercial beekeeper. What is a year like?

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Like, what are you doing in September? What are

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you doing in November? What are you doing in

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March, April, May, that kind of thing? Would

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you just sort of take us through the calendar?

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Yeah. So typically honey harvest is in August.

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And August, early September, mite treatments

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go in right after the honey harvest. So that's

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kind of where we decide, are these guys queenless?

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Are they small? Did they swarm? That type of

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stuff. So around that period of time, August,

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September. That's that's kind of where I don't

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know if you've ever listened to Bob Binney But

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he says your season starts in August and that's

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kind of one of the things I learned so getting

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the mites under control testing so on and so

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forth by Around this is this is for Wisconsin,

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Minnesota. So by around middle of November they

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will get loaded onto a trailer and hauled down

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south whether it be Florida or Texas was typically

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where I went And then you more or less start

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feeding the heck out of them by middle of December

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and testing for mites, keeping everything like

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that under control. And then we would load them

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up end of January, beginning of February, and

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then they would go over to California. I've only

00:13:14.340 --> 00:13:20.080
pollinated almonds in California. beginning of

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March ish somewhere in that area sometimes it's

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a little later they would get loaded back up

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and hauled back to Texas or Florida where we

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would go on ahead and we'd start splitting and

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making nukes up and then from there they would

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either go on to different pollination contracts

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or they would go back to Wisconsin Minnesota

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back where back home and then you basically you

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know get them up there in April Mayesh and take

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them out to your outyards. Make sure they're

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good on mites and whatnot if you need to retreat.

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Typically we used Apivar in the fall more commonly

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and we used Formic in the spring because it gave

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you a little better knockdown. But usually if

00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:13.259
you keep the mites low all year you don't really

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run into too much trouble. Then you just repeat,

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you harvest, you put boxes out throughout June,

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July and pull them in August, September. It's

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a full -time job. Yeah, beekeepers are the hardest

00:14:29.139 --> 00:14:32.740
working people, especially the commercial beekeepers.

00:14:34.250 --> 00:14:37.149
Yeah, I don't envy that. I wanted to stress one

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of the first things that you said, and that was

00:14:39.230 --> 00:14:41.929
making sure that the mites were under control

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starting early, like in August, something like

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that. And I know a lot of beekeepers have made

00:14:47.110 --> 00:14:51.220
the mistake that I have too, going, oh. I'll

00:14:51.220 --> 00:14:53.419
check before winter because I don't want mites

00:14:53.419 --> 00:14:56.840
in winter. And so come October, yep, got mites.

00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:00.139
Let's put some treatment on now. And folks, you

00:15:00.139 --> 00:15:02.100
got to start a lot earlier than that. Keep them

00:15:02.100 --> 00:15:04.299
under control. In fact, all year long, keep them

00:15:04.299 --> 00:15:07.039
under control. Yeah. And one thing I will say,

00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:10.580
that was my biggest, that was the best thing

00:15:10.580 --> 00:15:15.000
I learned from going from just a hobbyist. to

00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.639
a sideliner is working with a commercial outfit

00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:21.960
to where they were very critical upon keeping

00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:25.360
the mite numbers low. If we had 2 % mite counts,

00:15:25.820 --> 00:15:29.179
that was way too high, basically. So they were

00:15:29.179 --> 00:15:32.720
very critical on that. And it was always taken

00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:35.759
into account that if you've got sick bees, they're

00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:39.080
never going to be very productive. And that's

00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:42.399
what I've seen, too. Then at what point did you

00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:46.039
decide, hey, instead of working for this great

00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:48.220
company, I think I want to do some of this on

00:15:48.220 --> 00:15:50.980
my own and become a sideliner? How many hives

00:15:50.980 --> 00:15:55.879
did you get up to? 2010, I started with two hives.

00:15:56.519 --> 00:16:01.720
In spring of 2011, I had lost both of them. I

00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:03.879
would say failure to treat and failure to feed.

00:16:06.700 --> 00:16:08.720
Quick break to thank our presenting sponsor,

00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:12.690
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00:16:12.690 --> 00:16:15.230
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00:16:15.230 --> 00:16:18.049
of my bees. Mite checks and treatments, beetle

00:16:18.049 --> 00:16:20.850
management, hive health and nutrition, pollen

00:16:20.850 --> 00:16:24.509
substitutes, food and feeders, and the knowledge

00:16:24.509 --> 00:16:27.409
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00:16:31.049 --> 00:16:32.990
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00:16:32.990 --> 00:16:36.809
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00:16:36.809 --> 00:16:39.490
there, don't forget your discount code MLBlove.

00:16:39.500 --> 00:16:42.879
It's in the show notes. For $10 off your first

00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:51.220
$100 purchase. Then 2011, I think I bought five

00:16:51.220 --> 00:16:55.179
packages and I was started working with the commercial

00:16:55.179 --> 00:16:57.039
operation a little bit, you know, just helping,

00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:59.919
helping in the spring split and stuff like that.

00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:03.240
Cause I was, I was wanting to learn a lot. And

00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:09.059
by 2013, I believe I had around 50 colonies that

00:17:09.059 --> 00:17:15.720
I had 2014. And by this point I had had very

00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:18.559
good results. I was coming out of winter with

00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:21.539
a 10 % loss, you know, a 10 % loss rate. So I

00:17:21.539 --> 00:17:24.799
had very good results. And I went from around

00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:31.220
50 up to 200, 250, somewhere in that range. And

00:17:31.220 --> 00:17:34.119
then I started working with the commercial beekeeper

00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:37.099
more and we were basically just including my

00:17:37.099 --> 00:17:42.400
yards into his rounds. And he got me into pollination

00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:46.980
around the 2013ish, 2014 mark. And that's kind

00:17:46.980 --> 00:17:49.859
of where I did that for another five years. You

00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:51.740
jumped in pretty fast. Do you recommend that

00:17:51.740 --> 00:17:55.420
for other people? If you have a good mentor,

00:17:55.460 --> 00:17:57.579
I don't think it's a problem. If you're just

00:17:57.579 --> 00:18:00.640
going in it alone, I would suggest against it

00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:06.369
because I got a lot of breaks in regards to somebody

00:18:06.369 --> 00:18:09.569
who they would buy a truckload of equipment so

00:18:09.569 --> 00:18:13.349
I could get commercial prices on all my equipment.

00:18:14.230 --> 00:18:17.890
And I also had knowledge if I wanted to ask a

00:18:17.890 --> 00:18:20.730
question or I was pondering an idea, I could

00:18:20.730 --> 00:18:25.210
just shoot a text or give my mentor a call and

00:18:25.210 --> 00:18:27.849
he would be more than happy to help me in any

00:18:27.849 --> 00:18:30.109
way, shape or form. And that's the same way with

00:18:30.109 --> 00:18:33.019
like queens and whatnot too. I raise them as

00:18:33.019 --> 00:18:37.500
well and I did supply myself and some of his

00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:40.700
queens as well. So we all kind of work together.

00:18:41.180 --> 00:18:43.940
Let's talk about queens. As long as you brought

00:18:43.940 --> 00:18:46.039
up queens, let's talk about that a little bit.

00:18:46.299 --> 00:18:48.859
I know you have some experience raising queens.

00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:51.680
What kind of method do you like to use? Tell

00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:55.259
me a little bit about your preferences and also

00:18:55.259 --> 00:18:59.660
the kind of breeds you like. So I mostly did

00:19:00.360 --> 00:19:03.079
Carniolans and Italians. They were mutts by the

00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:06.259
time I got done with them, or they made it and

00:19:06.259 --> 00:19:08.920
whatnot. But Carniolans and Italians were the

00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:14.079
most popular. And I would basically start grafting

00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:19.500
the end of middle of May, end of May. I used

00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:22.720
starter finishers. I did not move the cells from

00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.160
a starter to a finisher. I made all my mating

00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.279
nukes and stuff like that. You know, I did all

00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:30.440
that stuff. I would actually, what I would do

00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:32.720
is I would take an actual five frame nuke and

00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:35.380
run a little piece of half inch plywood, dado

00:19:35.380 --> 00:19:38.599
that out. And then I had my nukes that when I

00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:40.140
was done with them, I could just pull that out

00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:44.960
and it was a nuke again. I only run approximately

00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:49.160
150 to like 250 queens a year, but that was to

00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:52.440
satisfy myself and my local beekeeping clubs.

00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:55.599
Realistically what it takes, this was a learning

00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:59.779
experience, strong hives. You want to, for your

00:19:59.779 --> 00:20:02.400
starters and your finishers, they need to be

00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:05.400
strong. I would usually do it in 10 frame boxes

00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:09.140
and I would be swapping out frames of brood,

00:20:09.339 --> 00:20:12.559
capped brood would have eight or nine frames

00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:16.220
of caproot in a hive at all times. There were

00:20:16.220 --> 00:20:18.519
too many bees in the box, basically, is how it

00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:22.420
played out. I could easily start and finish 50

00:20:22.420 --> 00:20:26.720
cells in that colony every about two weeks -ish.

00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:30.059
I think a queen emerges on day 16. So I would

00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:34.099
swap them out about every 12 to 13 days. Okay.

00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:36.619
Wow. You're cooking through this stuff, John.

00:20:37.230 --> 00:20:40.109
What else do you think would be important for

00:20:40.109 --> 00:20:44.549
people to learn about from your experience? Grow

00:20:44.549 --> 00:20:48.910
with your bees would probably be my biggest suggestion.

00:20:49.309 --> 00:20:52.809
Uh, I know when I first got started, I had a

00:20:52.809 --> 00:20:55.089
mentality of like, I wanted to, you know, I wanted

00:20:55.089 --> 00:20:58.509
to be a commercial beekeeper and have a thousand

00:20:58.509 --> 00:21:01.329
colonies or that type of stuff. It's not really

00:21:01.329 --> 00:21:04.690
worth it to do that. In my opinion, I grew very

00:21:04.690 --> 00:21:08.650
fast. You know, I went from 10 to 50 in a year

00:21:08.650 --> 00:21:12.029
and that's, that's a big jump. But if you grow

00:21:12.029 --> 00:21:15.160
with your bees, and you know you double every

00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:17.559
year, it doesn't take you very long to get to

00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:21.740
250 or 300. So that's what I would suggest is

00:21:21.740 --> 00:21:25.700
growing with your bees and if you can, go work

00:21:25.700 --> 00:21:28.240
with a commercial beekeeper for a year or two

00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:31.259
if you're interested in that type of stuff because

00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:35.019
they are such a plethora of knowledge that you

00:21:35.019 --> 00:21:38.809
really don't. you can't get unless you're working

00:21:38.809 --> 00:21:42.569
with them. You can read books and watch videos,

00:21:43.029 --> 00:21:46.250
but it's different than hands -on, being out

00:21:46.250 --> 00:21:48.990
there, seeing the sights and all that type of

00:21:48.990 --> 00:21:52.509
stuff. Did you find that some of the things that

00:21:52.509 --> 00:21:55.509
you learned just came with experience? I'm thinking,

00:21:55.690 --> 00:21:58.839
for example, If you've got a hobbyist, a fairly

00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:01.720
new beekeeper and they're in their hives for

00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:05.420
maybe they've got two hives. And so they're in

00:22:05.420 --> 00:22:09.900
there for an hour a month or something like that.

00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:11.940
I mean, they're going to have a hard time finding

00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:14.200
a queen. They're going to have a hard time spotting

00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:17.740
problems, things like that. What kinds of things

00:22:17.740 --> 00:22:21.220
can you learn by being in hives all day every

00:22:21.220 --> 00:22:24.700
day? Well, one thing you can learn, in my opinion,

00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.920
which is very important as well, is you don't

00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:30.539
need to see the queen. Like, I know that's a

00:22:30.539 --> 00:22:32.980
big thing with new people, because I've taught

00:22:32.980 --> 00:22:36.400
quite a few people, family members included,

00:22:36.700 --> 00:22:39.259
about they want to get into bees. And that's

00:22:39.259 --> 00:22:42.019
great. I always suggest that they do it. But

00:22:42.019 --> 00:22:44.940
when they say, oh, you know, I don't see the

00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:48.500
queen or I can't find her. And I said, well,

00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:53.579
do you see eggs and larvae? Are they making the

00:22:53.579 --> 00:22:56.430
roar, the queenless roar? and usually if they

00:22:56.430 --> 00:22:59.069
say well no I see eggs and I see larva and stuff

00:22:59.069 --> 00:23:01.450
I'm like well she's in there just you don't need

00:23:01.450 --> 00:23:04.130
to see her you know she's doing her job and you

00:23:04.130 --> 00:23:07.609
just let her be because too many people will

00:23:07.609 --> 00:23:10.789
go through and manipulate frames and unintentionally

00:23:10.789 --> 00:23:14.829
cause harm when it's really unnecessary and that

00:23:14.829 --> 00:23:18.309
was one thing I learned I personally don't rip

00:23:18.309 --> 00:23:22.309
into a hive any farther than if I see a few eggs

00:23:22.309 --> 00:23:25.049
that's fine that's all the more I need to see

00:23:25.210 --> 00:23:27.930
Yeah, I would suggest don't be in the hives too

00:23:27.930 --> 00:23:32.309
much and look at the signs around the hive to

00:23:32.309 --> 00:23:34.430
see if they're looking for queens and whatnot.

00:23:34.990 --> 00:23:38.369
I've heard the term over -inspecting. There's

00:23:38.369 --> 00:23:40.690
under -inspecting and over -inspecting. We need

00:23:40.690 --> 00:23:42.609
some kind of a nice balance right in the middle.

00:23:43.289 --> 00:23:46.430
Yeah, the over -inspecting is just as bad, if

00:23:46.430 --> 00:23:49.220
not worse, in my opinion. Yeah. Because then

00:23:49.220 --> 00:23:51.180
you get bees that are mad at you, and then you

00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:54.960
get stung, and a bad experience leaves a bad

00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:57.420
taste. Well, you're ripping their house apart.

00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.680
You're probably smoking them to death. It's going

00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:02.500
to put them back every time you get in there.

00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:04.940
So you need to have a good reason and a plan

00:24:04.940 --> 00:24:07.220
every time you get in. I couldn't have said it

00:24:07.220 --> 00:24:09.940
better myself. Hey, I'm just curious, if you

00:24:09.940 --> 00:24:14.119
don't mind, why did you decide not to be a commercial

00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:17.529
beekeeper? Why did I consider not to be? That's

00:24:17.529 --> 00:24:21.009
a question I've asked myself too. Realistically,

00:24:21.690 --> 00:24:24.750
I didn't like the management aspect of it more

00:24:24.750 --> 00:24:27.349
than anything. That was the worst part. I really

00:24:27.349 --> 00:24:30.789
liked being in the bee yard and working with

00:24:30.789 --> 00:24:36.609
the bees. I didn't like having to set up locations

00:24:36.609 --> 00:24:39.250
and having to buy stuff and having to pay your

00:24:39.250 --> 00:24:42.309
employees and stuff like that. And that's the

00:24:42.309 --> 00:24:45.930
main reason why. Overall, I'm more of the type

00:24:45.930 --> 00:24:48.309
of person who would much rather be in the bee

00:24:48.309 --> 00:24:51.329
yard working with the bees than sitting behind

00:24:51.329 --> 00:24:54.329
a desk and on a telephone talking to clients

00:24:54.329 --> 00:24:56.910
and talking to customers and stuff like that.

00:24:57.569 --> 00:24:59.329
All right. The first time you and I talked, you

00:24:59.329 --> 00:25:01.309
were telling me about an experience that you

00:25:01.309 --> 00:25:07.829
had with some very hot queens. Okay. Let's put

00:25:07.829 --> 00:25:10.809
that in perspective. We're talking about beekeeping

00:25:10.809 --> 00:25:13.779
here when we're talking about hot queens. Tell

00:25:13.779 --> 00:25:16.160
me what was going on. This was one of those wild

00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:21.299
and crazy stories. Okay. Well, uh, so it was

00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:23.740
middle of March ish and I got a telephone call

00:25:23.740 --> 00:25:26.200
from my mentor and mind you, I'm a thousand miles

00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:29.319
away and he says, Hey, I'm going to need your

00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:32.480
help. And I was like, Oh, okay. Well, you know,

00:25:32.539 --> 00:25:35.200
what, what do we need? He's like, can you be

00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:39.970
down to Houston by tomorrow? And I'm like, Yeah,

00:25:40.430 --> 00:25:42.910
I can. So I got on a plane and then I flew down

00:25:42.910 --> 00:25:45.930
there and I figured out that he, we were talking

00:25:45.930 --> 00:25:50.250
back and forth and he had approximately 700 splits

00:25:50.250 --> 00:25:53.769
that were way too aggressive. They were bad.

00:25:53.990 --> 00:25:56.250
You couldn't, you couldn't be in the bee yard

00:25:56.250 --> 00:26:01.450
without getting just mauled to death. So I was

00:26:01.450 --> 00:26:04.329
talking to him and I had never worked with really

00:26:04.329 --> 00:26:07.740
hot bees before. And he, you know, we were sitting

00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:09.680
in the truck. I remember that, that morning we

00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:11.740
were sitting in the truck and he's like, well,

00:26:11.740 --> 00:26:14.059
let's make sure you're zipped up. And we pulled

00:26:14.059 --> 00:26:17.279
into the, into the off the field road and they

00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.359
were already starting to hit the truck. And this

00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:22.460
is, you know, it's, it's six 30 in the morning.

00:26:23.019 --> 00:26:25.480
Sun's just starting to come up. We had a heck

00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:27.779
of a day. Cause the first day we went through

00:26:27.779 --> 00:26:31.859
and we had to fix these, these hives. So it was

00:26:31.859 --> 00:26:35.339
us and five other people, I think four other

00:26:35.339 --> 00:26:39.460
people. Basically we took the colonies for double

00:26:39.460 --> 00:26:41.500
deeps and just split them like right in half.

00:26:41.819 --> 00:26:45.619
One side went to a new pallet and then put lids

00:26:45.619 --> 00:26:48.400
on all the other colonies that we took the top

00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:52.240
box off of. And then that next morning we went

00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.259
back through and I wasn't checking the hives

00:26:55.259 --> 00:26:58.759
to see which ones were queen right, but basically

00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:01.819
they would just pop the lid and you could hear

00:27:01.819 --> 00:27:04.079
if they're queenless. And then that lid would

00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:07.190
get turned over if it was queenless. And if the

00:27:07.190 --> 00:27:10.309
other one was not, it got left alone. And then

00:27:10.309 --> 00:27:13.430
we had another person coming behind them, putting

00:27:13.430 --> 00:27:16.309
new queen cages into the boxes that were queen

00:27:16.309 --> 00:27:19.190
-less. We left them alone for a day. And then

00:27:19.190 --> 00:27:22.049
the next day, we went and shook out all of the

00:27:22.049 --> 00:27:26.990
boxes that were queen -rate. And that was a new

00:27:26.990 --> 00:27:29.809
experience for me. And I don't wish to ever relive

00:27:29.809 --> 00:27:33.430
that. When you say you shook them out into something

00:27:33.430 --> 00:27:36.509
on the ground, what did you do? on the ground.

00:27:36.769 --> 00:27:40.150
Yep. Oh man. The queen right colonies basically

00:27:40.150 --> 00:27:43.349
got shook out onto the ground and those boxes

00:27:43.349 --> 00:27:46.289
got combined back with the colony that had a

00:27:46.289 --> 00:27:50.009
queen, a new queen in it. And yeah, it was blotting

00:27:50.009 --> 00:27:52.450
out the sun. Like you had to wipe your veil off.

00:27:52.890 --> 00:27:55.470
It was really bad. I've never seen that before,

00:27:55.470 --> 00:27:58.509
but that was, I guess, one of the most efficient

00:27:58.509 --> 00:28:00.809
ways to do it because you can't go through 700

00:28:00.809 --> 00:28:03.470
colonies and try and find each individual queen.

00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:08.299
But yeah, that was one really crazy beekeeping

00:28:08.299 --> 00:28:11.180
story that I've had. And I wish that upon nobody.

00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:14.039
I think you just answered my earlier question

00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:16.440
about why did you decide not to be a commercial

00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:18.980
beekeeper? I learned a really good lesson that

00:28:18.980 --> 00:28:23.220
day. And it was, if you're going to be doing

00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:25.539
something like that, you've got to be able to

00:28:25.539 --> 00:28:29.119
take a curve ball. And that was a heck of a curve

00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:33.420
ball, because. Yeah. it, it, it was, it was terrible.

00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:36.940
That's the nicest way to put it. It was, I don't

00:28:36.940 --> 00:28:38.880
know how many times I got stung, you know, you

00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:40.559
get stung in the gloves and I had a good suit

00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:43.039
on and everything like that, but that's, that's

00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:45.180
just how they did it. We taped up our legs. I

00:28:45.180 --> 00:28:46.779
remember that was one thing I did. I didn't do

00:28:46.779 --> 00:28:48.680
it right away because you know, you're wearing

00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:51.579
your boots and whatnot, but they can still figure

00:28:51.579 --> 00:28:54.160
out ways to get in. These were strong colonies

00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:56.480
too, cause they were, they had, they had come

00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:58.869
back from almonds about a month earlier. they

00:28:58.869 --> 00:29:02.730
were fairly strong so you you got to deal with

00:29:02.730 --> 00:29:04.869
that too and I don't know if you know anything

00:29:04.869 --> 00:29:07.329
about bees where the bigger they get the more

00:29:07.329 --> 00:29:10.049
pushy they can get but that's kind of what I've

00:29:10.049 --> 00:29:12.910
noticed. Well when you told me they were in Houston

00:29:12.910 --> 00:29:16.450
I assumed maybe they had Africanized genetics

00:29:16.450 --> 00:29:19.549
and that's why they were so onry but if they

00:29:19.549 --> 00:29:21.670
had been out in almonds with you did they have

00:29:21.670 --> 00:29:24.369
that kind of personality then? No these were

00:29:24.369 --> 00:29:27.339
these were splits. these were new queens that

00:29:27.339 --> 00:29:30.660
they had introduced into splits. The old hives

00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:32.579
were not like that. These were the splits that

00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:35.940
were coming back. But they, we usually made splits

00:29:35.940 --> 00:29:38.480
pretty strong because if you make them strong,

00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:43.140
you can get a secondary nuke off of them instead

00:29:43.140 --> 00:29:47.920
of, cause we sold nukes in May 15th -ish. So

00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:49.880
if you make them strong, if you put, you know,

00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:52.619
four or five frames of brood plus a queen cell

00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:55.990
within a month, you can make another nuke off

00:29:55.990 --> 00:29:59.670
of them. Gotcha. Okay, so folks, if you want

00:29:59.670 --> 00:30:04.109
to have a real experience, find 700 really angry

00:30:04.109 --> 00:30:07.950
beehives, pull them in half, shake them out all

00:30:07.950 --> 00:30:11.109
over the ground. I can't even imagine. When you

00:30:11.109 --> 00:30:14.470
say blacked out the sun, I believe you. Yeah,

00:30:14.609 --> 00:30:16.849
I mean, you know, because these are these are

00:30:16.849 --> 00:30:19.609
all healthy bees and they're all wanting to kill

00:30:19.609 --> 00:30:22.529
anything that moves. So it was bad enough. To

00:30:22.529 --> 00:30:24.150
be honest with you, I don't know where the Queens

00:30:24.150 --> 00:30:27.089
came from. I wasn't going to push any buttons

00:30:27.089 --> 00:30:30.150
on anybody, but yeah, they were hostile to say

00:30:30.150 --> 00:30:33.250
the least. Sounds like they came from hell personally.

00:30:33.750 --> 00:30:37.490
Yeah. You're in Utah, correct? Yeah. So where

00:30:37.490 --> 00:30:40.430
do you guys get your Queens and packages and

00:30:40.430 --> 00:30:42.730
stuff from? Well, you can get some local ones

00:30:42.730 --> 00:30:45.410
here. A lot of people get them from California.

00:30:45.930 --> 00:30:49.210
So people that have been in almonds and either

00:30:49.210 --> 00:30:51.450
kept their bees out there and then shook them

00:30:51.450 --> 00:30:55.609
into packages or or made nukes out there and

00:30:55.609 --> 00:30:58.849
bring them here. They usually come here in April

00:30:58.849 --> 00:31:02.390
sometime is pretty average. So, yeah, both from

00:31:02.390 --> 00:31:06.369
out of state and from here. And I prefer ones

00:31:06.369 --> 00:31:09.329
from here because they've been proven to be able

00:31:09.329 --> 00:31:12.200
to overwinter here and deal with our climate.

00:31:13.180 --> 00:31:15.680
It's like I've always thought, oh, I've got to

00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:18.839
get some of those Kona queens because I love

00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:21.259
Hawaii. Let's get some of that Hawaii genetics

00:31:21.259 --> 00:31:24.559
here. But I don't know, can they handle a winter

00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:27.839
in Utah in the mountains? I mean, I'm at 5 ,700

00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:31.680
feet where I live and have colonies here. And

00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:34.079
they've got to be pretty tough bees. Yeah. And

00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.980
that's one thing I have learned is because I

00:31:36.980 --> 00:31:40.230
used to use a lot of Florida queens. And that

00:31:40.230 --> 00:31:44.809
was always my concern was, well, I was back on

00:31:44.809 --> 00:31:49.150
the Minnesota Wisconsin border, and I wondered

00:31:49.150 --> 00:31:52.609
if they would be able to winter as well. And

00:31:52.609 --> 00:31:55.849
I actually found it wasn't all that big of a

00:31:55.849 --> 00:31:58.609
deal. As long as they had enough food, they're

00:31:58.609 --> 00:32:02.190
pretty resilient. And I know I'm way oversimplifying

00:32:02.190 --> 00:32:06.430
because in Kona, it's not like they have Kona

00:32:06.430 --> 00:32:09.599
genetics. Right. I mean, honey bees aren't native

00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:14.140
there either. So frankly, they could take carniolans

00:32:14.140 --> 00:32:17.059
or Russians or anything over there and raise

00:32:17.059 --> 00:32:20.019
them there. And they do it there because the

00:32:20.019 --> 00:32:22.720
weather is so great all year round. I get that.

00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:25.059
I'm just sort of oversimplifying that genetic

00:32:25.059 --> 00:32:27.980
thing. Hey, before I let you go, you've done

00:32:27.980 --> 00:32:31.299
enough beekeeping. I'll bet you have a wild and

00:32:31.299 --> 00:32:33.339
crazy story that's going to make us laugh. Can

00:32:33.339 --> 00:32:37.460
you think of one? My first real experience with

00:32:37.460 --> 00:32:40.160
working with a commercial beekeeper, I was more

00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:43.619
or less the labor. This would have been in 2011.

00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:48.599
I was pulling honey. And I had no idea of what

00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:51.160
was going on. I was just basically doing what

00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:54.380
I was told. And that's fine. But I didn't have

00:32:54.380 --> 00:32:58.099
a suit. So my mentor gave me a suit, which was

00:32:58.099 --> 00:33:02.119
a single layer, almost like an overall type of

00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:07.279
suit, a single layer. And I was trying to count

00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:09.579
the stingers in my back by the end of the day,

00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:14.720
but I ran out at 350. In your back or in the

00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.569
back of your suit? It was in the back of my suit,

00:33:17.730 --> 00:33:20.009
but the stinger still goes through because you're

00:33:20.009 --> 00:33:24.769
sweating and the suit sticks to you. Then he

00:33:24.769 --> 00:33:27.490
jokingly says, oh, you should probably buy a

00:33:27.490 --> 00:33:31.549
ventilated suit so you don't get stung. I'm like,

00:33:31.690 --> 00:33:33.230
well, I guess you could have just told me that,

00:33:33.250 --> 00:33:34.869
but I probably would have been too broke to buy

00:33:34.869 --> 00:33:38.049
one. I'm using the money I made today to put

00:33:38.049 --> 00:33:41.259
an order in for a ventilated suit. So were these

00:33:41.259 --> 00:33:43.559
bad enough? I mean, were these regular stings?

00:33:43.819 --> 00:33:46.039
Like you, you've got all the venom and everything

00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:48.720
through the suit. No, they, they weren't, they

00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:50.799
weren't like I was getting dosed a hundred percent

00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:52.680
of the venom. They were, they were just stuck

00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:54.819
in the suit and when the suit would lay down

00:33:54.819 --> 00:33:57.220
on top of your back, it would like stick to you

00:33:57.220 --> 00:33:58.779
because it's a hundred degrees out, you know,

00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:01.880
and I'm sweating and picking up, you know, 60

00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:03.660
pound boxes and throwing them up on the back

00:34:03.660 --> 00:34:06.619
of the truck. Yeah, well, that's what I had assumed.

00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:08.940
But if you had actually taken that many stings

00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:12.179
your first day, I wanted to ask you how you survived

00:34:12.179 --> 00:34:15.820
it and how you felt that night. Yeah, no, I was

00:34:15.820 --> 00:34:19.519
I was actually very sore, but it was I wasn't

00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:21.440
getting the full venom. They were stinging the

00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:24.059
suit and I'd pull it out. You know, I'd feel

00:34:24.059 --> 00:34:27.550
it. Yeah. But yeah, you don't get immune to the

00:34:27.550 --> 00:34:30.869
response of something stinging you, so. No, you

00:34:30.869 --> 00:34:33.329
may get immune to the venom, but not to the pain

00:34:33.329 --> 00:34:35.570
of the sting. You're still getting stabbed with

00:34:35.570 --> 00:34:39.150
a needle. That was my first kind of, I laugh

00:34:39.150 --> 00:34:43.070
about it because, well, I mean, we can all relate

00:34:43.070 --> 00:34:46.309
to being stung a few times, but when you get

00:34:46.309 --> 00:34:49.469
stung repeatedly over and over, and then you

00:34:49.469 --> 00:34:53.369
have the pheromone on you. So every time you

00:34:53.369 --> 00:34:55.750
walk into the bee yard and pull a box off, you

00:34:55.750 --> 00:34:58.329
get to experience it again. That is just one

00:34:58.329 --> 00:35:01.769
of those terrible welcome to beekeeping, John.

00:35:02.210 --> 00:35:05.550
Yeah, I definitely I learned my lesson though.

00:35:05.610 --> 00:35:08.690
It only took it only took one one time and I

00:35:08.690 --> 00:35:11.110
went and got a ventilated bee suit that next

00:35:11.110 --> 00:35:13.989
day. So then I didn't have to get stung at all.

00:35:14.469 --> 00:35:16.550
All right. Hey, John, I really appreciate you

00:35:16.550 --> 00:35:19.809
being with me today. Any last thoughts? Any wisdom

00:35:19.809 --> 00:35:21.809
that you'd like to leave with our listeners?

00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:25.420
I would like to suggest that people get into

00:35:25.420 --> 00:35:29.639
beekeeping. It's a wonderful hobby that you can

00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:33.000
learn something new from every day. You'll never

00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:35.360
learn everything about bees, so I would suggest

00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:37.539
everybody take a peek at it and get into it.

00:35:37.820 --> 00:35:40.219
Amen. Thanks a lot. We'll talk to you again soon.

00:35:40.659 --> 00:35:46.079
Thank you very much. Thanks again for joining

00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:48.679
us here on Bee Love Beekeeping, presented by

00:35:48.679 --> 00:35:52.880
Man Lake. Remember right now to follow or subscribe

00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:56.320
and share this podcast. Also a quick shout out

00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:59.519
to Vita Bee Health for their support. Vita's

00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:02.780
Varroa Control range of products includes Apistan,

00:36:03.079 --> 00:36:07.159
Apigard, and now Varroxan Extended Release Oxalic

00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:10.800
Acid Strips. Thanks guys. Enjoy spring everybody.

00:36:10.940 --> 00:36:13.739
Enjoy your bees. And remember, if you're not

00:36:13.739 --> 00:36:16.300
just in it for the honey or the money, you're

00:36:16.300 --> 00:36:19.989
in it for the love. See you next week. you